From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

Bolded: What the fuck are you talking about? It's 2 minutes, tops, to run all the way to the Taurus demon from the Undead Burg bonfire. Fucking seriously. Let's be honest here, how long did you even play the game? Did you even beat it? If you can't put forth the effort to beat the game, why the fuck should anyone listen to you when it comes to features that the game's sequel should have?

You are clearly a butthurt faggot if having to spend two minutes to get to a boss again, after dying for being unable to spend even five minutes on the fucking game at a time, means you want something that the game is better off not having. Not once have you addressed the problem of the game's tone being enhanced by the lack of a pause feature, nor have you accepted that you can pause the game offline just fine by quitting the game. If you want a pause that only functions offline, then quit the fucking game you useless shitfaced faggot. It's not hard. If your problem is that you can't pause during bosses, then fuck you. Bosses have giant fucking fog gates before them, as a warning that maybe you should be ready for a full endeavor before you enter this place. Meaning, don't start something you can't finish. It's really fucking simple.

You have no basis for your arguments. You can't even counter mine, you just dance around them and shout "ad hominem! ad hominem!" like I was only insulting you and pretending that I was right for no reason, and not insulting you for your stupid ideas. There is nothing that would be improved by adding a pause feature.

 

Frankly, when playing for the first time, I was spending a few minutes every time getting to the Taurus Demon. Just because I tried to pull the enemies from behind the first bridge using a bow.

edit: on my 1st playthrough getting to the Capra Demon was more infuriating; not just because the road is a bit longish (at least from Firelink Shrine, which I think was the closest) but also because I usually died 2 seconds after going through the fog gate.

 

Let me preface this by saying I beat the game and didn't really have too much trouble either. I'm also not really that interested in pause button either.

However I think it would not do anything to the tone or would only have a miniscule effect. You say that quitting during a boss is the same as pause?

Yet if I quit during a boss won't I start before the fog screen when I load the game? I'm not sure as I actually never quit the game anywhere but the bonfires.

Anyways, Say someone is fighting Quelaag for the fiftieth time and has finally after a gruelling ten minute battle succeeded in almost killing her. Now if this person needs to quit because the door bell rang he will have to start over again. Would it not be nice to pause there?

It's easy to predict what you'll say to that: "faggot can't win even after fifty tries! Deserves to try again" or something like that. Or perhaps "If you're expecting someone, don't play!"
Surprise visits/calls do exist though and even bad players are players.

Or even a scenario where a player is easily dominating a boss but needs to quit. What if he is on a "broken sword" challenge run? He'll have to beat at the boss for thirty minutes - again. "Faggot shouldn't use a broken sword" ?

But let's say that quitting the game is the same as pause. If so, then why would a pause button change the tone if the pause already exists in a different form?

The pause isn't a way to feel safe during the game but to get away from the game. How would it change the "constant danger" exactly? You'll be back in the exact same danger once you unpause. Perhaps quitting the game should be removed also, clearly the knowledge that it's possible to get away from the game at all is bad for the tone.

 

You can't quit during a boss, you idiot. That's why I pointed out that the fog doors are there as a warning to get your shit together before you start something that cannot be stopped.

Surprises happen, sure. Real world things happen. They also happen with every other game. If you're surprised in an MMO, tough luck, you're screwed. If you're surprised in the middle of an online match of your favorite fighting game, you're doubly screwed. If you're surprised in Dark Souls, you're probably going to die, but you really don't lose anything for it except the one humanity you used to become human (if you bother going human in the first place). Now, in Dark Souls, you can quit the game at any time except when playing online and when fighting a boss. That's going to be the majority of the game time, so quitting is almost always an option.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up special scenarios like challenge runs, because anyone who tries a challenge run is going to be quite familiar with the risks involved. They would know that it can't be helped if they die due to misfortune, because they've likely died from misfortune dozens of times already. It's a very common thing in Dark Souls. And for fuck's sake, why is it always about the time it takes to do stuff with you guys? Who gives a shit? If it takes thirty minutes to kill a boss, then you'll just feel that much more awesome when you succeed, and if you lose, oh well.

Actually, I don't know why you guys are trying to implement features to avoid frustration, because frustration is one of the central and vital aspects of the Souls games. Without frustration, it doesn't feel like you've done anything when you win a boss fight or beat an invader. Frustration has always been a beloved friend for From when it comes to making video games, just look at the Armored Core series! Some of those missions were balls-bustingly hard! From Software actually cares about making games that are rewarding when you attain victory over the challenges, which is something a lot of game companies have forgotten. I will always take offense when people ask for things that reduce frustration in From games because it is the same as asking for less worthy challenges to surmount. Goddamn pussies.

Bolded: I never said it was the same as pause, you illiterate fuck. I said it does everything you might need from pause. Hell, I said that pause in the game is pretty much pointless because nothing happens if you just idle there!

You see, this is something that a moron like you might struggle with, but the Souls games have a flow. Because everything is real time, there is no pausing, even all the menus are done in real time, the flow is snappy and quick. There's no stopping the gameplay, the gameplay is everything. There's very little (obvious) loading. Even dialogue is done with the stipulation that you are still right there, in the game, able to just run wherever you want and attack and parry and roll. That flow of nonstop gameplay is very distinctive amongst modern games, and it's something that lacking a pause feature reinforces. The gameplay, including the summoning and invading and such, is meant to reinforce the feeling that you are in that world, which in turn reinforces the dread you feel about the possibility of dying and losing precious souls and humanity. As long as you are in the game world, everything is real time. Quitting the game has an important difference from pausing it: it is leaving the world and returning to your own. The flow, or pacing rather, is an aspect of the tone that cannot be ignored for the Souls games.

 

edit: I think we need one of those "What will happen if" graphs.



"What will happen if gay marriage is legalized?" ---> "What will happen if there is a pause button in a Dark Souls game?"
"Gay people will get married" ---> "You will be able to pause the game".

 

MMO matches and online matches in a fighting game have online in common with each other. Dark Souls can obviously also be played online but that's an empty excuse as it can certainly also be played offline and whether you think so or not, it is a valid way to play. Online you cannot pause but offline you can (or should be able to). A simple thing.

I don't care how much I lose when I die. You lose something anyway. The idea of the pause button has more to do with not losing that something for absolutely no reason, i.e. surprises in real life.

Ridiculous. You seem to want to relegate the negative points of not having a pause button to non-existence and indeed even seem to act as though I should thank the makers for giving me this chance to repeat portions for no reason. My challenge run example didn't have the player dying due to a "misfortune" but because he couldn't pause. You think he'll "feel that much more awesome" because he had to swing weapons at something he absolutely dominates for another half-an-hour?

So suddenly the flow is the important part. Yes, I guess nothing pauses the game...except bonfires. The game is clearly paused there. Even if an enemy chases you to a bonfire it suddenly disappears when you rest at a bonfire. To use your old favorite, "Did you even play/finish the game?"
Warping and dying introduce loading that is far from "very little".
And the pause is also about "leaving the world and returning to your own". It is just a shorter absence. I even said that with slightly different wording "you illiterate fuck".

Where exactly did you say that because to me it seems that you did heavily imply that it's basically pause, but superior, or at least that it would do everything I would want the pause to do.

 

I don't understand. You're complaining about something that From has nothing to do with, complaining about your own problems and how they interact with the game. I think being interrupted by life is not losing for no reason. It's losing because you were interrupted by life, just like it happens with many games, which happen to be mostly online games. Sure, Dark Souls has an offline mode, but why should it have any special features that can't be used in online mode? What's so great about playing offline? The whole point is to encourage online play, not discourage it.

Yeah, you should thank the makers, bitch. It's not their fault you have better things to do than play the game. If you are unable to play the game properly when you're trying to make things harder on yourself on purpose, then who gives a shit? It's not like From mandates that everyone has to play with a broken sword only. You're the one talking in absurdities here. If you can't pause, and something comes up, ain't that just fucking misfortune? And yeah, the more times you fail at something, generally the better you'll feel when you finally beat it. It's something anyone can observe. Just because he's "dominating" something doesn't mean it's any less difficult. It just means he's doing well at it. If he loses, big whoop. Try again please. This time with your full attention. Losing because of real life interruptions is entirely the fault of the player and his real life circumstances, not the game.

No, pause is not about that. It's about stopping the game, so you can get that pizza you ordered or open the door for your bro who's coming over. It has no relation to the whole fucking motif of infinite different worlds and timelines, all interacting with each other. Pause breaks immersion. Quitting does too, just less. Can you get that through your thick skull?

Once again, you show your shit understanding of the game. Bonfires are not a pause feature. They don't "pause" anything. Monsters return to their places and respawn, but they're still there, idle, waiting to be aggroed. Bonfires are a haven, an escape, a place to refill your Estus and swap out equipment and repair your things and upgrade them. It's all still in real time.

As for loading, if you think that's anywhere near bad or obnoxious you'd better fuck on off right now, cause you're really full of shit.

It is better than pause, in this context. It already fulfills all the things you want except for being able to do it mid-boss. And it better fits the game's style, tone, pacing, flow... guess what? They're all related intrinsically. If adding pauses would damage any one of those things, it will damage the overall game. And it would. So it will. You have no good arguments in favor of pauses. They don't fit. They just don't. And ultimately it is From's decision whether or not they should be included, and From seems to actually have a sense of aesthetic style, unlike you. Thank God for that.

I'm not surprised that the Codex is so against popamole considering so many fucking retards try to defend it on here. Goddamn. What a waste of air.

 

How about some good news for this thread? Dark Souls 2 release date, March 2014:
http://kotaku.com/dark-souls-ii-coming-march-2014-says-e3-sign-510871604

This game's evelopment was started in early 2011, glad to see it getting a nice 3 year skedule. A lot of DS1's problems were because the game was rushed, not enough time to balance mechanics, finish levels/bosses, etc.

 

Because it can and they are useful?

That you can't really do anything about being interrupted by life in an online game doesn't mean that this inability is inherently a good thing.

You also can't play online games offline, so is it, in that private little world of your warped logic, the reason to force offline games and gaming modes to be always online?

 

What? The offline mode isn't the premier mode of the game. It's more of a backup mode in case no connections are available. Why waste time coding a special feature for offline mode only, when you can use the same time to enhance the online mode?

And how FUCKING DARE YOU accuse me of popamole when you are the one defending it! I thought better of you, DraQ! I thought you liked good things!

 

You don't waste time coding simple, non-active pause. You just check for pause key and stop iterating through engine's main loop until game is resumed.

What popamole? Maybe we should get rid of save feature too? Like altogether - not even ironman save on exit. You either complete game in one sitting or you start anew. How delightfully hardcore and counter-popamole it would be!

 

I'm really amused how people defend shit game design. It's meant to be this way! Only us, true gamers appreciate it...! etc.

DS is first game ever where I just watched some let's plays of it instead of playing it, lore and world were very interesting but actual gameplay is just too retarded.

 

please enlighten me

 

That's not really the point though, again, pause is a convenient feature that many people would like to have, and if they could only have it in offline mode, that's one more reason to not play online, which in turn weakens the online community. If the goal is to make people want to use the online features, then out of principle they should avoid giving the offline mode anything the online mode would disable or disallow.

Yep. If you aren't a bad enough dude to beat it in one sitting, fuck you. That would be great. You always have the best ideas, DraQ~!

 

So, how about RMAH?

 

Again with this bullshit. I like how you immediately jump to accusing me of being a proponent for shit like that. Shut up, DraQ.

 

The thing with pausing in Dark Souls is that enemies don't attack you freely in levels unless you go to them first. If you stay still and do nothing, you will always be perfectly safe. The exception is invasions, but that is also a reason that playing in online mode can't really have a pause feature. I wouldn't mind a pause in offline mode, provided that you cannot do anything (except resume or quit) while paused.

 

There's a lot of what-ifs in this (and the other) thread. "What if something happens and I don't get 100% completion? What if I accidentally an NPC and don't see all of their path? What if my save file corrupts and I have to start all over? What if I lose something? What if I need to take a bathroom break? What if something comes up while I'm in a boss fight and I need to do five minutes of gameplay again? What if I don't get reward? What if I lose stuff? What if I don't have enough time to play the game and I never get to see everything?"

Not saying that these scenarios are completely unimaginable, but the empasis on such hypotheticals strikes me as an interesting example of how much anxiety people have about playing a game, which in turn leads to people spending a lot of time and effort trying to micromanage their experience instead of just playing the game as it is. Honestly, I think this is a symptom of playing a lot of modern games - people learn to think of playing the game as some sort of arbitrary chore that must be taken care of in order to access "content" or "finish" the game or whatever. Dark Souls isn't that sort of game.

One of the big reason why people like the archaic, old-school sensibility of Dark Souls is because it's helped them unlearn bad, neurotic gaming habits. The reason why Dark Souls manages to do this is because of how pure, straightforward and unyieldingly absolute the design of the game is. There is hardly any content in Dark Souls except actually playing the game, and the game systematically removes every shred of junk that people could use to mess with the intended core game experience, difficulty levels, hard saves and pauses included. Think of the game as rehab for gamers - it has to be tough, firm love, or it wouldn't work. Is it really any wonder that so many people who like the game don't want any basic convenience features back? Dark Souls has gone to a lot of effort to remind them that they don't need those features in the first place, and that the experience of playing the game imperfectly, complete with failures, loss of progress, missed junk and broken quest lines, is more fun, more interesting and more valuable than worrying about how to do it perfectly.

 

I think a pause feature might actually be exploitable in multiplayer. I can see people pausing the game online and it pausing the black phantom who invaded freezing their game until they disconnect. Not sure how realistic it is, but could be a possibility on why there is no pause offline. Either way, I played the game offline mostly and had no problems. Codexers are just nitpicking and making excuses. No pause during bosses and mob fights is shitty design? What about all the top Codex RPGs and their shitty combat design? That's far worse than a pause feature you may only need to use a few times during an entire 40-60 hour game.

 

Yes, being able to non-interactively pause the game when you need to take a piss would turn it into exploitable lolercoaster of savescumming and derp. I'm sure it would.

You think wrong.

It's trivially easy to check if the game is in offline mode before allowing pausing. To abuse pause you'd need to modify the executable, and frankly, if you want to cheat, fiddling with save files is easier and far more potent way to increase your power than removing check from pause function.

 

Isn't that pretty much the same thing people say about hard saves, selectable difficulty, automaps, voice chats, detailed tutorials and so on? "It doesn't change anything about the game!" "If you don't like that feature, don't use it!" "Having more options is always better!" "I have a life, unlike scum like you!" "Why don't you let me play the way I want to!"

In a way I agree. Pausing, unlike hard saves, is mostly harmless, and difficult to abuse. The worst I can think of is that I know for a fact that there are players who use pausing as a sort of "panic button" to go check something out in a walkthrough or just to take a deep breath, especially during boss fights. Certainly nowhere near the sort of abuse that saving would enable. I suspect that it might detract from the harsh, indifferent ambience of the game if you could just press a magic button to stop everyone from butchering you, but still, if Dark Souls did have pause, it certainly wouldn't ruin the game for me. That said, I can't say I missed having a pause at all after playing the game for an hour or so, and over some two hundred hours of playing the game I have somehow managed not to spoil the sanctity of my sofa with urinary fluids, so sucks to be you, I guess.

 

There is in fact a grey area between the game being completely ruined and being made worse.

 

All of those give you a clear advantage in the game. What clear advantage does a non-interactive pause screen give you?