From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

Huh, that is weird. It's not like it's really relevant.

 

Another question:

So what's the deal with Kaathe? Why is he so obscurely hidden (trapped?) in the Abyss and apparently seems to need to keep a low profile, what was his stake in cursing 4 Kings, and what's his agenda? Is he evil, with lifedrains and darkwraith covenant and such, or simply pro-human(like the confirmation of Gwyndolin/Frampt's lies would suggest), or none of these? Or is simply humanity inherently tied to evil to some uncomfortable extent?

 

Whew! Killed all the PTD bosses today, good shit!
Sif gave the killing blow to Manus

 

Is that a new weapon type or does it share a movelist with a pre-DLC weapon?

 

It's just a black knight halberd isn't it?

 

Yeah it is, instantly recognized it since I used it so often. It's quite a beast, isn't it?

 

I never get the black knight weapons I want . Usually only 1 drop until the kiln of first flame where it pretty much doesn't matter anymore. Except on my mage of course, who had a drop rate of approximately 100%.

 

The story of our lives, huh? I was supposed to be a mage but got the BK great sword/halberd and the shield. Seems like all of my chars turn out the same damn way, melee guy with few low level spells. Even if I decide before the start that I'm gonna do things differently this time..

 

Derp. Never used it meself, tho.

 

Finally got back into this game with a new character now that crunch month at work is over. Now noticing how the Shotel sword is a beast for pvp, and the Lucerne+Leo Ring combo is particularly brutal. I come up against these punks who try to turtle behind their shield with spear pokes, but I just bust through their defense with Shotel power attack and trainwreck them with the Lucerne. People rarely see the Shotel coming, must not be a popular pvp choice. Have caused a lot of butthurt and hatemail with these weapons, especially if you follow up your victory with that smartass "Come at me, bro" taunt you can learn

Also, it is so nice to have a game where polearms are used properly. If only the same could be said for the crossbows, it's annoying not being able to actually snipe with the Sniper Crossbow. Although the Avelyn repeater crossbow is pretty sweet.

 

Also, FUCK those Skeleton Wheels

 

If you hate those wheel skeletons so much, why don't you farm the shield off them. Then share the rage with others in PvP . But seriously, the wheel shield is a goddamn monster in PvP.

 

I didn't know they drop a shield, will look into that. I love the pvp in this game.

These little fuckers give me so much hell in this playthrough heh. Last time I just tanked them with heavy armor and a claymore. Am using a lighter build this time, elite knight helm and leggings + dark leather chest + shadow garb boots/gloves. Looks cool but lousy defense. But fuck it, it's more fun to just make what build you want instead of powergaming imo.

 

How do you deal with bosses as a rogue-ish build? I've been considering one.

 

Well, my guy was built for using fast hit-n-run attacks with polearms and crossbows. So for me it's a matter of carefully studying their attacks and looking for an opening, then running in for the kill. Or if I don't have enough time for a proper attack, try to poison them with throwing knives/dung pies or heavy damage with bombs. Fights are longer but more tactical. Ornstein and Smough has been my funnest moment with this build, dodging and weaving in between all those pillars and the two bosses themselves, whittling them down with quick ninja strikes. Great fun!

-edit
I'm not using any shields or magic either. So it requires good use of dodge rolls and sprinting, and parry-riposte attacks. And I also have to rely on items a lot, like poison throwing knives, dung pies, bombs, talismans for pvp, alluring skulls for crowd management, etc. Avelyn crossbow with lightning bolts is deadly too.

 

Yeah, with a dex build you'll need to rely on consumables a lot unless you want to peck bosses to death with 100 attacks. I'd imagine the crossbow is effective too (the reason you can't snipe with it is because you can one hand it and use a shield, it's meant as a lock on short ranged type weapon to use in conjunction with a shield.) Also, summon phantoms to help. Most boss fights can be won just by the phantom alone as long as you distract the boss so the phantom can get some free hits in. Though it depends on luck, sometimes the NPC phantoms are retarded.

At any rate, poking at smough with a rapier 600 times is a lot more difficult than using a big two hander or magic.

 

hahaha what? If 500 physical damage on a fairly fast attacking long reach weapon isn't enough I want to know what you are using. Dex weapons give the best DPS in the game, Str weapons have the advantage of high stun but lower overall damage due to slowness.

Had I gone with Great scythe instead of the unique Lifehunt Scythe I could get even higher (A vs C Dex scaling), but as it is +15 Lucerne is my best dex weapon with Lifehunt right behind (being unbuffable but a really nice bleed attack). Pretty sure a curved greatsword could get even higher per-hit damage, and I wouldn't doubt that faster Dex weapons like Katanas would be able to get a higher DPS rate.

If by rogue-ish you mean "daggers and stuff" rather than Dex weapons as a whole, you'll want to backstab what you can and bleed what you can't. Bandit's knife (which you... start out with as a thief. YAY!) does both well and Priscilla's Dagger shares the highest bleed damage in the game with Lifehunt scythe, while being much faster and without the downside of causing bleed on yourself.

 

Yeah, the cool thing about dex polearm builds is that while you can't take many hits (maybe none depending on enemy), neither can your enemy. One good opening is all you need to run in and wreck them in seconds. Also finding Lucerne great for pvp, players have been having difficulty parrying its odd wind up attacks. They fuck it up and are left wide open, then get their head caved in a second later. Or they underestimate the running attack's range when trying to dodge roll, same thing happens. Also like the winged spear and partizan, which I used quite a bit before finding lucerne.

Though I do find it a bit tricky when dealing with enemy mobs of 4 or more, especially in small areas, which is why I've come to use stuff like alluring skulls. Very satisfying grouping them together with one of those, and then charging in and wipe them out with a big sweeping attack

Seems a lot of oft-ignored weapons are better than given credit for, like reinforced club, shotel, lucerne, and wolverine claws (which I might use as primary weapon on next char). Too bad the whip is a shit weapon no matter what.

 

How the hell is the lifehunt scythe a roguish weapon? You might as well call the black knight sword a roguish weapon while you're at it. It's just another heavy slow two hander with a ton of reach. If you're getting 16 str so you can one hand it or hold a heavy shield, you may as well go 5 more points and just two hand a black knight halberd. You'll do far more damage, and you won't bleed to death every 3 swings.

A roguish weapon is something that bounces of a shield when it gets blocked and makes you recoil like you just punched superman.

 

If you've watched PvP videos for DS you'll notice that a lot of players run around with rapiers. They're very quick weapons with nice range and do decent damage when fully upgraded (Lightning comes to mind, IIRC). I suppose you could couple it with Hornet's Ring but the fully upgraded Lightning Bandit Knife (aka, Lightning Knife) is then a much better choice and a backstab will cripple most players. If you want bleeds and are a dex build, you might as well go with an Uchigatana given it's got much better range, damage and comparable speed.

Unfortunately, against bosses you might have some trouble. Again, though, an upgraded Lightning anything will still deal tons of damage against a boss, far from a pinprick. And if you're good at dodging (since you can't parry most of them) you shouldn't have any problems - shields are for the novice, anyway.

 

Another one of the reasons so many people use the rapier is that, although it has a lower crit than the bandits knife, it has armor piercing, so it actually has the potential for the highest backstab/riposte damage in the game. I tested this myself on the black knights in the kiln - the difference is small, but I bet with a high strength it becomes more significant. I still like the bandits knife more though, as its bleed makes it useful on shield turtles and its low weight makes it easier to throw in as a backup weapon even if you don't plan to rely on it. Plus the slashing motion is more fun than poking.

 

16 Strength = 11 Strength req with 2-hand bonus, that's not exactly hard to meet. If you are playing a Dex build based around dodging instead of blocking there is no reason not to two hand. And of course, you can always use one of the other weapons I mentioned whenever the bleed gets too high. I'm pretty sure Black Knight Halberd does equal or less damage unless you are pumping Str really high as well as Dex.

As to what is considered "rogue-ish", that's up to the player. I take that to mean "daggers", and I detailed the two good ones. You specifically mentioned dex builds in general, so I responded to that.

 

Ornstein and Smough absolutely wreck my shit with my current build. Using Queelags Fury Sword atm (upgraded from my trusty Falchion) and its good - the Pyromancies are doing so much damage too - the problem is getting close to them without getting hammered or pierced by Ren&Stimpy. Tried summoning the Sunbro too, he is absolutely useless in the fight (the first part where both Ornstein&Smough are there is relatively easy, it is the "Super" versions I have problem with) and just gets his ass handed.

Now I understand the frustration some people had with them. ;D

 

The black knight sword only takes 14 str to two hand, not exactly a massive amount either. Still isn't a fucking dex weapon., even if it does take 18 dex to wield.

The point is to use a quick, one handed weapon and parry/block shit. (Basically max dex first and ignore str) And I was pointing out that it's hard as fuck, because you're not going to parry 90% of the shit in the game, or block it with a light shield.

What the fuck is a great scythe if not a big two hander? Who cares where the damage comes from if it has the exact same animation and playstyle a strength weapon? They could put in an ultra greatsword with no str requirement and 20 dex minimum and it'd still be a slow ass two hander.

Also, weapon damages: http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/

 

You seem to be forgetting bleed, which can be very nasty. It was created to make daggers viable against heavy armored targets and boss monsters. Priscilla's Dagger is especially lethal.