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The Fundamental Aspect of an RPG is...

Discussion in 'Codex Workshop' started by Dicksmoker, Sep 28, 2009.

?

What do you think?

  1. 1. C&C

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  2. 2. Support for diverse playstyles/ robust branching skill sytem

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  3. 3. Ability to create your own character

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  4. 4. Freedom of exploration

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  5. 1 & 2

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  6. 1 & 3

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  7. 1 & 4

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  8. 2 & 3

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  9. 2 & 4

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  10. 3 & 4

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  11. 1, 2, & 3

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  12. 1, 2, & 4

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  13. 1, 3, & 4

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  14. 2, 3, & 4

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  15. It MUST have all 4.

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  1. Think big! Smoking Dicks

    Think big!
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    I thought I'd put this to a poll. These seem to be the various beliefs of what defines an rpg at the Codex (excluding mondblut's of course). So what do you guys think? Personally I get the feeling that 1 & 2 (together) will get the most votes, but we'll see. As for me, I'd have to pick C&C over everything else. Why? Because I think that it engages the mind on a deeper level than anything else in games; and that, therefore - if implemented well - it will provide the most thorough and engaging form of entertainment possible in games. The Codex seemed to be a place that shared my beliefs, and that's one of the reasons I started posting here. But after a while I began to realize that that belief wasn't as universal here as I once thought. So how about we settle this? Let's see what the majority of Codexers think. Regardless of the outcome, I DO think C&C is an important enough phenomenon in games (and only possible in games) that it deseves special recognition, so if the Codex doesn't agree that that is what makes an rpg I'll need to think of another term or something.
     
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  2. Fat Dragon Arbiter

    Fat Dragon
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    2 and 3.

    3 because I enjoy customizing my own character instead of choosing pre-made builds/races/classes/etc.

    2, for being able to tackle situations differently based on the skills of my pc.

    I don't think deep exploration or cnc are necessary for an RPG to be good, though it most certainly can add a lot to the game's quality if executed well.
     
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  3. Hümmelgümpf Arbiter

    Hümmelgümpf
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    2 and 3. C&C would be cool, but they are a platonic ideal that never truly existed beyond a couple of examples in a few specific games. Maybe AP and AoD will finally deliver on them.
     
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  4. Shannow Waster of Time

    Shannow
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    Only 2 (if at all). You can have RPGs without the others. Thus they aren't Fundamental Aspects of RPGs. Although they are beneficial to an RPG-experience, of course. It seems Dick tries to impose his definition on RPG on everybody else, again.
     
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  5. Emotional Vampire Arbiter

    Emotional Vampire
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    Crysis. No, really, you can do what you want and your suit has like, 5 modes!

    Or shit, want MORE skills? Fucking Prototype man. RPG of the year, hands down.

    Get the fuck out.
     
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  6. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    There is a fair share of RPGs with predefined characters, a plenty of RPGs with a single playstyle (kill everything for xp) and no "branching skills", lots of RPGs with very little freedom, and "C&C" is a newfag fad found in, like, 2 or 3 decent but enormously overrated games.

    Maybe next time you'd be wise to consider "mondblut's" before failing miserably again. :lol:
     
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  7. Think big! Smoking Dicks

    Think big!
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    I was wondering if you'd figure out that that's what this poll was about - tricking people into accepting my definition of rpgs. I'm clever like that.
     
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  8. Castanova Prophet

    Castanova
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    And then there's Emo Vampire who believes that C&C is the only fundamental characteristic of cRPGs and therefore also believes that there are only approximately 2 cRPGs in the history of video games and, rated solely on their C&C, these two games are not very good anyway.

    I wonder who's the less rational one.
     
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  9. Think big! Smoking Dicks

    Think big!
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    Well what would be good implementation of C&C, then?
     
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  10. Emotional Vampire Arbiter

    Emotional Vampire
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    Cool case of Internet Bloom&Nigger, bro.
     
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  11. Fezzik Cipher

    Fezzik
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    It really depends on what RPG you're talking about. Typically, I'd say it's something along the lines of giving each particular character multiple ways it can do things and having much of the gameplay take place through mechanics (hence the emphasis on combat). But then there are RPGs like Ultima VII where the skill system really isn't the focus and combat is essentially run by the computer.

    The RPGs I like the most tend to follow the principle "have multiple ways of doing things." This could mean having many classes so that, even if most parties look the same, each character has multiple choices for how to do things (spells, backstabbing, being a tank, etc). Or at a higher level, it could be multiple solutions to quests or C&C. But this isn't really the end all, be all of RPGs.
     
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  12. Castanova Prophet

    Castanova
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    The real world
     
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  13. Janus Novice

    Janus
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    If i may add something to the discussion (i am kinda new here), i would like to pinpoint that this poll lacks one important thing that every RPG need. C&C is a great future, customizing a character and playing it your way is also important and freedom of exploration is cool if it makes sense ... but what every good RPG need, be it pen and paper or CRPG is a good, immersive story. The story that makes you feel like a part of the game world. The story that gives you a feeling that you are realy playing your role. And it is a Role Playing Game after all.
     
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  14. shihonage You see: shelter. Patron

    shihonage
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    Faced with the dilemma between a maintaining a meaningful narrative for each individual player, and C&C with complete freedom of will, one has to acknowledge the scale of the problem God was faced with.

    No wonder we're still in alpha. I just hope that at the end of testing God will gracefully migrate our characters, instead of doing a wipe via an end-of-the-world event, however spectacular it may be.
     
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  15. Zomg Arbiter

    Zomg
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    If I get to parse 3 as something like "express a character" rather than just "create a character" as in a character creation interface with points or dice or whatever, then 3. If I'm supposed to use 2 to mean something close to that, then 2. C&C and freedom are just epiphenomena, typical "character creation" is just a means.
     
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  16. Fezzik Cipher

    Fezzik
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    Having a good story is nice and it can add a lot to an RPG, but I don't think it's essential and it can even be a bad idea. Take the recently released Knights of the Chalice, for example. It has a fairly cliche story and it doesn't stick out very much, but that is exactly as intended because by being unobtrusive, the focus can remain on the key element of the game: combat. Or take the Might and Magic games. The player can be totally unaware of the story during the course of the game, but that's all right for Might and Magic because the point is to explore the dungeons.

    In short, the importance of story varies depending on the type of RPG.
     
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  17. Janus Novice

    Janus
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    Aren't RPG's about experiencing a different world? As a whole? If i want combat i would play an action game like God of War, if i want to explore a dungeon i would download Seplunker or play Tomb Raider.

    I personally dont like excuse plots or dungeon crawling. If an RPG has focus on combat give it a good story that gives players motivation to participate in this combat. If a game has a focus on dungeon crawling give those dungeons background and history, don't make them ruins for ruins sake. So we still need a good story.
     
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  18. Ohlie Novice

    Ohlie
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    Aren't CRPGs the hybrid children of tactical wargames and adventure games? Some resemble the former and emphasize stats, systems, and mechanics. Others skew toward the latter, and focus on characters, world-building, and narrative. And still others try to split the difference idiosyncratically.

    Taken together, they comprise such a wide spectrum that I don't think you can isolate any "fundamental aspect"--at least not without arbitrarily chopping off entire branches of the CRPG family tree. (In that respect, it's exactly like PnP, where RPG systems vary so greatly that both rules lawyers and freeform players can find something they like.)
     
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  19. Fezzik Cipher

    Fezzik
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    I agree that having a story that works makes things more interesting and gives added motivation. But some people prefer different things in RPGs and the dungeon crawler types can see a story as filler or a distraction.

    I'll give you a kind of example for what I mean. I never played Temple of Elemental Evil myself, but the impression I get from the posts I've read about it is that dealing with the town and the characters in it was a bit of a drag and just delayed reaching the meatier part of the game.

    It could be argued that those sections of the game just weren't done well enough, but I'd say it's more about different strokes for different folks. Some people just aren't interested in hearing about artificial characters that they don't care about, so they'd prefer the game not to have an emphasis on story.

    I personally like a good story most of the time, especially if it's presented in an interesting way. For example, my favorite RPG is probably Prelude to Darkness and one of my favorite features of it is how the story slowly unfolds as little events here and there hint at something that only becomes apparent as the game reaches its boiling point. But I think I wouldn't enjoy World of Xeen as much if it had a strong story that was emphasized. The reason being that, much like how it was in Planescape: Torment, if I were trudging around a dungeon looking for secret rooms and whatnot, I would have a nagging feeling in the back of my head saying that I should get out of the dungeon and see what's next with the story. If things are kept simple, I can just concentrate on the dungeon at hand.

    But like I said, I think it's just different strokes for different folks or different features for different games. The only reason I responded was because I interpreted the question as "what does an RPG absolutely need" instead of "what makes a good RPG in your eyes."
     
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  20. Clockwork Knight Arcane

    Clockwork Knight
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    2. All 4 are ideal, but 2 provides more replayability (C&C too, but it's hard to do and I prefer being able to choose laying stye).

    There's some religious guilds spreading rumors about the new server, <s>Trammel</s> Heaven. It seems you can't die, carebear shit. They try to fake a survival situation saying that you can't take anything from the alpha with you, but who cares if god mode is on al the time
     
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  21. Krash Prophet

    Krash
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    Way too many options
     
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  22. shihonage You see: shelter. Patron

    shihonage
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    Reality is where the avatars are, Heaven is where the players are.
     
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  23. Clockwork Knight Arcane

    Clockwork Knight
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    So if u die in the game...

    ...u die 4 real?
     
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  24. shihonage You see: shelter. Patron

    shihonage
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    As the player, you can have multiple avatars. Their deaths are inconsequential, because, even though, when you play as them, your consciousness is merged, they're just a part of the bigger whole that is the player.
     
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  25. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    If you want to be told a story, you could play some fucking point-and-click adventure. :roll:
     
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