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Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Heresiarch, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    Yeah, just killed the guardian by having it teleport into a circle of 6 fully buffed clerics who meleed him to death in under 2 rounds. Honestly don't think the spell-boosting feats are any good. Flame strike is pretty much the only spell it helps and it's so slow to cast + not a great AoE so it's somewhat hard to aim well and generally not worth the time. The only instance I've really been using it is when I sleep whole groups (e.g. the hook horror ambushes before underdark) with Greater Command in an area, then have my whole group of 6 clerics unload 6 flame strikes at once. Granted I could probably do that a lot more than I am now, but it's more fun to use physical attacks.

    That said I've also found that concentration is surprisingly not that important. My in-combat spells tend to be fast, like greater command (1 cast time), dismissal/banishment (1 cast time), heal (instant), defensive harmony (1 cast time). The longest spells I consistently spam are hold person/charm/halt undead/dominate, around 3 cast time, but I have enough of them on everyone that I just find whoever isn't under attack to use it. Before I'd have said concentration was something you need to always keep maxed, now I'm thinking its more only necessary for nukes
     
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  2. laclongquan Arcane

    laclongquan
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    That's why you send summons in to surround target then flame strike the whole group. You got 6 cleric, you can strike 3-6 hit each time~

    As for concentration, that's why a ClericFighter4 can afford to ignore Concentration and just invest in Spellcraft. Standing in melee and casting spells with time 1-2 is what it's all about. For pure caster, Concentration is important because you dont want to get disrupted during important fights, which is where you get interrupted the most.
     
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  3. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    It is base, or I would have the feats at level 3 with my drow wizard.
     
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  4. Jigby Novice

    Jigby
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    You also have to be able to cast level 4 spells, but that was noncontentious. You can technically have it with a level 7 wizard (class level), if at level 8 you take a fighter level for the bonus feat. Or some other bonus feat shenanigan so you don't have to wait for level 9.
     
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  5. the_shadow Arcane

    the_shadow
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    You're right about the Elemental Feats being overrated, both for cleric and wizards. The cleric's main advantages are buffs or mass disables (eg. Greater Command/Symbol of Hopelessness), neither of which benefit from the elemental feats. Even getting it on wizards is rather dubious, since 20% damage on a 1d6 fireball capped at 10d6 isn't that big a deal, especially since Skull Trap is superior.

    There is one exception, and that's if you have a Cleric of Lathander. While Flame strike is pretty weak, Clerics of Lathander get Fire Storm as a Level 6 domain spell, which is otherwise obtained by clerics as a Level 8 spell. Fire Storm hits like a freight train, so an extra 20% damage is always nice. I'd still rather get Spell Focus: Enchantment and Weapon Focus though.
     
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  6. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    Cleric of Lathander is a bit of a red herring. Flame Strike caps at 15d6. At level 15 you get level 8 spells, so by level 16 when Fire Storm is actually getting better you already have it anyway.

    Well I definitely need exactly 15 spellcraft to take them with my -5 INT modifier clerics.
     
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  7. Gaius maximus Arbiter

    Gaius maximus
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    Whats the best lvl to dual from swas/fighter to mage/cleric?
     
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  8. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    2. At that point you've picked up both initial bonusfeats and the rest of fighter is useless. But honestly losing spellcaster levels in 3E is so crippling you shouldn't really multi them.

    EDIT: disregard that, I suck cocks (thought it was about IWDII)
     
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  9. Gaius maximus Arbiter

    Gaius maximus
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    Im playing the first icewind dale so its 2nd edition dnd,i want my clerics to be able to tank thats why i want the fighter lvls.
     
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  10. Melcar Arcane

    Melcar
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    13th lvl is the latest I would dual. 7-9th is a good compromise if you want to be able to tank. However, depending on how you are playing, a 13th lvl Fighter dual build may not be feasible due to XP progression.
     
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  11. DonGabo Novice

    DonGabo
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    Lvl 7 for the extra 1/2 attack. After that you get another extra 1/2 attack at level 13, but that is way too much XP to recover your abilities.
     
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  12. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    IMO multi-class f/c > dual-class f/c, dual-class is better a lot of the time but I prefer multi for f/c
    multi-class f/c also gets the shorty bonuses and you get to be a dwarf
     
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  13. Gaius maximus Arbiter

    Gaius maximus
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    thanks,i know about that but im asking whats the best lvl to retrieve my fighter lvls at about midgame.
    lilura would be an experten on such matters but alas,she left us.
     
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  14. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    Gotta start all over to min/max your characters
     
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  15. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    There really is not much else to take though once you have the important spell focus feats. Extra damage is extra damage and therefore always useful.
     
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  16. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    Dualing is mostly for kits and always a bit immersion breaking IMO, while multiclassing is always powerful. Shorty bonuses are indeed amazing, an entire party of Fighter/x dwarves/gnomes is the easy mode way to IWD.
     
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  17. Melcar Arcane

    Melcar
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    Gnomes and Halflings are rather great in IWD.
     
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  18. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    L2 at 10000 XP is painful.
     
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  19. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    Halflings suffer -1 strength which due to how exceptional strength works on fighters is effectively more like -3 to -6 strength (depending on how obsessive you are at rolling but I assume most people get at least 18/51). It's fine if you aren't a fighter but fighter/thief is just flat out superior to thief. Single class casters at least have the excuse that they are getting their spells a bit earlier.
     
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  20. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    Deep gnomes have invisibilty, which is basically free scouting and it evades problems where you need to sneak somewhere.
     
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  21. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    disregard my post, I suck cocks (thought the question was for IWDII)
     
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  22. smaug Arcane Patron

    smaug
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    So, I’m in a temple near Kuldahar where the yeti’s were and I got to the lower floor where’s there’s 2 death knights and a strong undead mage. Any tips for the fight?

    octavius
     
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  23. smaug Arcane Patron

    smaug
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  24. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    Undead don't have Call for Help scripts, so make sure you activate them one by one, at least the melee fighter types. I think this level would have been impossible if not.

    I don't remember the details, but a stealthed Fighter/Thief should help against the mages. One of my favourite IWD tactics: move party into range right before the backstab, them hit him with missiles if he's still standing.
    IIRC Turn Undead was not very useful.
     
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  25. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    Depends on the difficulty and which version of the game you are playing, whether it's the original or the enhanced ediiton.

    A few things. On higher difficulty settings, the concept of a "tank" begins to lose meaning. This is true for HoF mode but also on insane, at least for a big chunk of the game. What i mean is that what you want is not a tank but a decoy. Mages actually make better decoys than tanks because of their protective spells, and summons make the best decoys of all. With this in mind, the only thing a cleric gains by adding fighter levels is a bit of extra melee damage and extra hp (plus the ability to make the best out of Draw Upon Holy Might, but that's not something you are going to have on all the time). A pure cleric or a dual classed cleric with a small fighter dip will actually be be more useful because you'll get more protective spells to cast and more summons as well (which matters all the more if you play like i do, I.E., by limiting resting as much as you can, which is the only way not to make those games not feel cheesy). Also on higher difficult settings, you get more xp. On insane, you get twice more xp than normal. On the EE you can disable that where as on the original you cannot, and it makes a HUGE difference because with twice XP a dual class cleric will be FAR superior to a multiclass one. As a dual class, you'll end up as a level 21 cleric even if you go as far as level 7 as a fighter, where as a multilclass cleric will be stuck at a much lower level, which means a ton of less spells and for little gain when it comes to dps (if at all). The same cannot be said for a druid, because of the stupidly gigantic xp hump at level 14 (on normal xp you'll end up at level 14 as a pure druid and as level 12/13 or so as a fighter/druid. It's kinda absurd). Pure clerics also shine in Icewind Dale 1 because of the massive amounts of undead you find everywhere. Turn undead can seriously trivialize a lot of areas in this game, and you want that to be as high as you can to make sure enemies won't resist it. Lastly, if you are casting spells you are not getting hit or hitting enemies and as a cleric you'll be casting often.

    If you are not playing HoF you can get away with a traditional tank but i suggest you make it a fighter type (paladin, fighter whatever) for maximum melee dps. On insane, you won't really be able to tank much until you get into the Severed Hand (where your gear will finally start to catch with the enemies thac0), but a melee dps is still vital just because many monsters will have immunities to normal arrows and magical ones will be scarce for a big portion of the game. As for the rest of your party, all you have to look at is the progression table to see who benefits more from multi or dual class. Clerics and mages are better off with a small fighter dip, just because you want to access their most powerful spells as soon as possible, so they need to be pure or close. Druids will be stuck at 14 or 15 because of the xp hump so go multi with them. Figther/thiefs too are a must. I had a dwarf fighter/thief and he was my designated archer as well as tactical backstabber and makeshift tank to protect the rear guard. Pretty awesome. You can remove traps without braking invisibility so you can just have a mage cast that on him and you can go to town clearing all the traps in the map in one single swoop, and after that you can put the heaviest armor you want on him and make him a tank when needed. Fighter/mages are also pretty good in this game, regardless of whether you play at double xp or not, but you need to plan your spells carefully because scrolls are scarce and you need to decide which spells to give to your pure mage and what not. Same if you bring a bard along (bards are broken in this game. Warchant of the Sith is the most overpowered shit imaginable, so much so they nerfed it in the sequel).
     
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