Decline The new Thiaf game is MASSIVE decline - Eidos Forum Refugee Camp

But does it really? More detail doesn't necessarily mean better

 

I'll make a backup of my 'review' in case Idiots Montreal gets butthurt.

 

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

 

Not even remotely.
In Thief 1/2 and System Shock 2 I crapped bricks if I had to fight the guard/bot using melee weapon.
Here I feel frustrated at best.

 

Fuck you and fuck your bullshit. Your argument is invalid as it is, with the exception of graphics. (duuhh)

If you used the gamma calibration in the game, the recommended setting was a level where the dark corners were really dark. (That said, most people didn't use this, because it also made the other parts of the game a bit too dark.)

Bullshit, this only happened when the lightgem was totally dark and you were 100% hiding.

Sure, but the overexagerated footsteps were used to notice the guards movements. What do you get in Thiaf? Dubstep starts playing when the guards are searcing for you, and the HUD screams at you that you have to watch out. Oh, but we know that this was because of the deaf people.

I don't know about you, but the new high resolution mods make the lightgem a small icon, which doesn't distract the player. But Thiaf's version is not bad, I admit.

Dafakk? I believe it that it was possible braking the game like this, but during my many walkthroughs this doesn'T happen. NOT EVEN ONCE. And for bunny hopping. FUCK YOU! This is the same retarded excuse the devs made back then. Do you have a thought of your own? It is not true. Normal players didn't do this. It was used only i speedruns you fucking idiot!

There were syncing problems, sure. Obviously they solved that in Thiaf. But at least Thief had unique ambient, VO and music, which are inferior in Thiaf.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Maybe, maybe not. The fact is that Garrett is a gritty tryhard hero, the savior of the City in Thiaf.

TL;DR - Ban this idiot.

 

hmmm. playing with maximum gamma?

I heard this new one had not made any improvement in 16 years...

If you walk properly, he doesn't make a sound even on the loudest floor.

You're talking about deadly shadows, eh?

I never... since I never needed to outrun guards since I played in a way I wouldn't be seen at all.

Light because it is no dark... Years because it's about 14... I'm playing thief now, THIEF, not the abomination, and it's graphics are great. No shaders, no fogs, and it looks better than thiaf. The only problem with thief 1 is that the guard meshes were too "polygonal-ish", but thief 2 improved that, and you can use them in thief 1. The levels ghraphics are better than lots of modern things.

never notice it being a nuysance... because the game didn't force me to hear a dialogue... unlike thief, where everything turns into a cutscene to show a very subpar animation simalar to every game released nowadays, taking control from you and expecting ist "acting" to win an emmy or an oscar. ha.

both both of them are Light Years ahead of thiaf...

You had to hold and stay moving and actually hit the guy yourself.

 

Bobbix: same thing has been posted on TTLG in Post Mortems - if you plan to do astroturfing, better learn how to do it properly idiot.

 

I was in the mood... sorry, no more.

 

2000, son, Every game had blocky graphics.

But you're really digging yourself in here, because when comparing the art style, the new thief pales in comparison to say TMA. For a start, the old games used a colour palette that went beyond 'gray' and 'bluey-gray'. And that's even before we get to how varied the environments were.

The originals did have issues, but that's just nitpicking when compared to the mountain of generic blandness that thiaf is

 

Awesome review.

 

On a related note, these "why does garret wear ceramic shoes" and "people should see you if you're right in front of them, even in complete darkness" criticisms are a bit silly, since these effects actually simulate the way human hearing and sight work in situations of high contrast. You can't see shit in proper darkness until your eyesight adjusts, in a completely empty room it's possible to make out outlines of objects after a bit, but in one with furniture, have fun telling whether a vague blob two meters in front of you is a crouching guy or a chair. Same for sound, try walking around your house at night and see how difficult it is to stay quiet, and how the most mundane of activities seem to produce lots of noise.

Frankly, in terms of tech, a true Thief spiritual successor could do a lot with these ideas, like having light bleed effects that make you more visible when close to the edge of shadow. Or having sounds actually interfere with each other, so you could use background noise to mask your footsteps.

 

Yeah, but that takes :effort: which modern-day "AAA" publishers couldn't conjure up even with 2 tons of drugs at their disposal.

 

Not to mention, you know, Garrett had fucking pseudo-magic powers and was trained to enhance them by a shadowy cabal of glyph wielders. Since the new game tosses this caveat out in favor of him just being a man, however, it has no excuse as to why guards can't see his shiny leather like it's broad daylight.

 

So you're saying Alpha Protocol stealth would be acceptable if the lore said that Mike Thornton's a wizard?

 

They should especially try wearing a pair of leather soled shoes and try to sneak around indoors - then they'd realize that the sounds Garrets shoes make are actually quite realistic. He's wearing proper shoes and not some modern rubber soled thrift store sneakers.

 

Honestly though there are several things Thief could be called out for, like e.g. only considering lighting at the position you are, but e.g. not behind you (shilouettes), or NPCs having a highly advanced friend-foe-identification system build into their hearing, both of which are probably a result of both of gameplay and technical limitations.

This is something that wasn't made very clear, I think? How much was natural talent + training and what was really "magic".
I mean, while you could assume that Garrett used some Keeper magic, he might as well just have been very talented at staying out of sight (and observand).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deRIulRqWp0

A treat for you guys.

 

The intro to TDP has Garret trying to pickpocket Atrus, who is walking invisibly through a crowd in broad daylight. Pretty sure they explicitly state somewhere in the series that he would have been just as capable, but he quit the Keepers before he reached that level of training.

 

I guess the people making the "Tap dance" complaint think Garrett should wear some kind of Ninja style velvet shoes or something. Of course this is the stupidest idea ever. Without the modern artificial fibers we have today our feet would have no protection at all if we decided to wear something softer than shoes with leather soles. Imagine going around on the streets/in the woods/mud etc. with nothing than but socks on. Garret's feed would look pretty bad after a day or so.

 

Well I think Garrett was very talented, but the Keeper training made him almost invisible. Afterall we hear in the intro of TDP that it is not easy to see a keeper if he doesn't want to be seen (when Garrett tries to pickpocket him).

Edit: Ah, Azazel beat me to it.

 

The game doesn't even have dynamic shadows, so that's obviously a technical limitation. What do you mean with the aural identification, though? I thought hearing you could only make enemies suspicious, and they only gave proper chase after seeing you, which makes perfect sense. I haven't tried running over a marble floor while out of sight though, no idea what happens then.

 

What the...? You seriously hear that intruding loud music everytime someone suspecting your presence? How subtle, just like the atmospheric Thief 1. You know, where you heared dubsteb when the skeletons were searching for you in the Cathedral.