The problem with Buffing

[The Great ThunThun*]

I have noticed in all D&D based games that when you start an encounter or are about to start it, the character puts on a million buffs to be ready for it. I suggest an easy counter: limit the number of buffs you can have on any character. This is not only the straightforward solution but also easily justified within the game lore, as you explain it away by saying that too much magic on one person automatically dispels away spell.

Another way to solve it would be to have resources linked to the buffs: e.g. you only have that much mana and buffs require a lot of it, or like in D&D and P:K things like stoneskin need a rare ingredient.

Another source of the problem is putting buffs on all characters one by one, which gets tiring. A simple way to address that would be a "buff bar" where for each character you add one buff that you want to cast and pressing a single awesome button you get the awesome effect of all buffs applied.

Thoughts?

Also, obligatory:

 

[Bocian]

Get rid of wizards and magic altogether. All problems should be possible to resolve with wits and/or physical strength.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Pathfinder kingmaker is obnoxious with this

Everytime I enter a new map I have to go apply 15 different buffs

 

[Incendax]

Pathfinder kingmaker is obnoxious with this

Everytime I enter a new map I have to go apply 15 different buffs

That’s D&D in general, minus the new concentration mechanic.

 

[Lilura]

Posting in a rest-spammer thread.

 

[Somberlain]

Didn't Sawyer already solve this issue forever with his perfectly balanced systems

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Posting in a rest-spammer thread.

Because of exhaustion mechanics in P:K, it's just part of gameplay

 

[aweigh]

OP: uh, they did solve this "problem". spells are a limited and precious resource, resting is dangerous and inconvenient, and buff durations are varied and scale with level and class. This discourages insta-buffing at every opportunity.

...in PnP of course. In CRPGs it's a complicated matter because when these systems were made the notion of automated dice-rolls and being able to reload your game at every minor inconvenience weren't taken into account (nor should they have been: they weren't making a computer game rules system).

You could, of course, simply make the game permanently iron-man mode to limit game reloading and save-scumming and to make resting (or rest-equivalent functions) a weightier matter, but guess what? Most players don't find that fun, or at least they don't find it conducive to a good interpretation of mechanics in their RPG.

Iron-manning is awesome in roguelikes or games designed around it but who the fuck wants to have to wade through mountains of dialog boxes and cutscenes or traverse thru the same boring map for the 10th time just to "discourage buffing and rest spam"? Not me, that's for sure.

 

[Gregz]

I have noticed in all D&D based games Bugfinder: Kingfaker that when you start an encounter or are about to start it, the character puts on a million buffs to be ready for it.

This is certainly not the case with most "D&D based games", it's unheard of in the Gold Box games for instance. Also, when playing the tabletop version, your party doesn't get a "let me reload this encounter so I can prebuff" option before rolling initiative.

This was a cheesy mechanic Owlcat used to fool their players into thinking they are experiencing compelling gameplay. It's only slightly less cancerous than HP padding.

 

[zapotec]

I am not certain, iI remember a bad novel about Elminster (the gandalf forgotten realms) being slowly and secretely stripped of every buff/protection he has during the course of years!!

The keyword is years

 

[deuxhero]

Pathfinder kingmaker is obnoxious with this

Everytime I enter a new map I have to go apply 15 different buffs

A problem with Kingmaker. Game needs an option to apply buffs at the end of rest. Once you're level 4+ with an extend rod you have mage armor running every waking hour with two castings and you don't even need to remind the group.

 

[Elex]

I have noticed in all D&D based games that when you start an encounter or are about to start it, the character puts on a million buffs to be ready for it. I suggest an easy counter: limit the number of buffs you can have on any character. This is not only the straightforward solution but also easily justified within the game lore, as you explain it away by saying that too much magic on one person automatically dispels away spell.

Another way to solve it would be to have resources linked to the buffs: e.g. you only have that much mana and buffs require a lot of it, or like in D&D and P:K things like stoneskin need a rare ingredient.

Another source of the problem is putting buffs on all characters one by one, which gets tiring. A simple way to address that would be a "buff bar" where for each character you add one buff that you want to cast and pressing a single awesome button you get the awesome effect of all buffs applied.

Thoughts?

Also, obligatory:

so like in 5e DND where more than 70% of buffspell require concentration?

 

[aweigh]

if ur rod is extended for more than 2 mage castings please consult a physician

 

[Viata]

Magic should be something hard that only 1% of all population should be able to learn it. And should take more than 1 ms for a wizard to cast it.

 

[aweigh]

in black clover everyone is born able to cast magic!!!1

except Asta

 

[a Goat]

Grab a sword and cut the enemy's head off with your pure manly man strength. Magic is for pussies who don't lift.

 

[Viata]

Magic is for pussies who don't lift.

 

[typical user]

I have a better idea. A game where you put debuffs on your enemies so they turn into weak slugs with no brain so you can one shot them or let them live their miserable lives in their new form with lots of disabilites. Imagine turning a warrior into a weakling who can't even lift a dagger or a wizard who can't phrase one sentence or a rogue who is deaf and has no thumbs.

 

[aweigh]

you can do this already in all rpgs???????

 

[Lurker47]

And in games not based on D&D, buffing is almost always inefficient.


Lololol, necro.

 

[Apostle Hand]

i like to buff myself

 

[frajaq]

RPGs should have a buff limit with slots, a more manageable gameplay layer thats easier to balance

 

[Lurker47]

RPGs should have a buff limit with slots, a more manageable gameplay layer thats easier to balance

What do you mean by slots?

 

[Modron]

RPGs should have a buff limit with slots, a more manageable gameplay layer thats easier to balance

So like Arcanum where you could only have x active spells going?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Pathfinder has buffs that don't stack, so you have to cast the right ones IF you have them. It's not a big deal, I don't see a problem with buffing or debuffing, it's cool to grow wings, turn into a dragon, turn into an elemental or djinni, be super fast for a few rounds or turn the enemy group into overweight slugs. Adds to the interest in rtwp combat for me.