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The problem with Buffing

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Kit Walker, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. Kit Walker Totally Not Captain Shrek

    Kit Walker
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    I have noticed in all D&D based games that when you start an encounter or are about to start it, the character puts on a million buffs to be ready for it. I suggest an easy counter: limit the number of buffs you can have on any character. This is not only the straightforward solution but also easily justified within the game lore, as you explain it away by saying that too much magic on one person automatically dispels away spell.

    Another way to solve it would be to have resources linked to the buffs: e.g. you only have that much mana and buffs require a lot of it, or like in D&D and P:K things like stoneskin need a rare ingredient.

    Another source of the problem is putting buffs on all characters one by one, which gets tiring. A simple way to address that would be a "buff bar" where for each character you add one buff that you want to cast and pressing a single awesome button you get the awesome effect of all buffs applied.

    Thoughts?

    Also, obligatory:

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Bocian Arcane

    Bocian
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    Get rid of wizards and magic altogether. All problems should be possible to resolve with wits and/or physical strength.
     
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  3. rusty_shackleford Liturgist

    rusty_shackleford
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    Pathfinder kingmaker is obnoxious with this

    Everytime I enter a new map I have to go apply 15 different buffs
     
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  4. Incendax Scholar

    Incendax
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    That’s D&D in general, minus the new concentration mechanic.
     
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  5. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    Posting in a rest-spammer thread.
     
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  6. Somberlain Arcane Zionist Agent

    Somberlain
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    Didn't Sawyer already solve this issue forever with his perfectly balanced systems :slamdunk:
     
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  7. rusty_shackleford Liturgist

    rusty_shackleford
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    Because of exhaustion mechanics in P:K, it's just part of gameplay
     
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  8. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    OP: uh, they did solve this "problem". spells are a limited and precious resource, resting is dangerous and inconvenient, and buff durations are varied and scale with level and class. This discourages insta-buffing at every opportunity.

    ...in PnP of course. In CRPGs it's a complicated matter because when these systems were made the notion of automated dice-rolls and being able to reload your game at every minor inconvenience weren't taken into account (nor should they have been: they weren't making a computer game rules system).

    You could, of course, simply make the game permanently iron-man mode to limit game reloading and save-scumming and to make resting (or rest-equivalent functions) a weightier matter, but guess what? Most players don't find that fun, or at least they don't find it conducive to a good interpretation of mechanics in their RPG.

    Iron-manning is awesome in roguelikes or games designed around it but who the fuck wants to have to wade through mountains of dialog boxes and cutscenes or traverse thru the same boring map for the 10th time just to "discourage buffing and rest spam"? Not me, that's for sure.
     
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  9. Gregz Arcane

    Gregz
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    This is certainly not the case with most "D&D based games", it's unheard of in the Gold Box games for instance. Also, when playing the tabletop version, your party doesn't get a "let me reload this encounter so I can prebuff" option before rolling initiative.

    This was a cheesy mechanic Owlcat used to fool their players into thinking they are experiencing compelling gameplay. It's only slightly less cancerous than HP padding.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
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  10. zapotec Novice

    zapotec
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    I am not certain, iI remember a bad novel about Elminster (the gandalf forgotten realms) being slowly and secretely stripped of every buff/protection he has during the course of years!!

    The keyword is years
     
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  11. deuxhero Arcane

    deuxhero
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    A problem with Kingmaker. Game needs an option to apply buffs at the end of rest. Once you're level 4+ with an extend rod you have mage armor running every waking hour with two castings and you don't even need to remind the group.
     
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  12. Elex Scholar

    Elex
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    so like in 5e DND where more than 70% of buffspell require concentration?
     
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  13. Kit Walker Totally Not Captain Shrek

    Kit Walker
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    Yeah. 5e has actually concentration as a great mechanic. So why not?
     
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  14. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    if ur rod is extended for more than 2 mage castings please consult a physician
     
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  15. Viata Arcane

    Viata
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    Magic should be something hard that only 1% of all population should be able to learn it. And should take more than 1 ms for a wizard to cast it.
     
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  16. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    in black clover everyone is born able to cast magic!!!1

    except Asta :(
     
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  17. Sheep Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Sheep
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    Grab a sword and cut the enemy's head off with your pure manly man strength. Magic is for pussies who don't lift.
     
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  18. Viata Arcane

    Viata
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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. typical user Learned

    typical user
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    I have a better idea. A game where you put debuffs on your enemies so they turn into weak slugs with no brain so you can one shot them or let them live their miserable lives in their new form with lots of disabilites. Imagine turning a warrior into a weakling who can't even lift a dagger or a wizard who can't phrase one sentence or a rogue who is deaf and has no thumbs.
     
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  20. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    you can do this already in all rpgs???????
     
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  21. Lurker47 Learned

    Lurker47
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    And in games not based on D&D, buffing is almost always inefficient.


    Lololol, necro.
     
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  22. Apostle Hand Educated

    Apostle Hand
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    i like to buff myself
     
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  23. frajaq Learned

    frajaq
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    RPGs should have a buff limit with slots, a more manageable gameplay layer thats easier to balance
     
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  24. Lurker47 Learned

    Lurker47
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    What do you mean by slots?
     
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  25. Modron Arcane

    Modron
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    So like Arcanum where you could only have x active spells going?
     
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