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Interview "The story now is 900 pages long": Brian Fargo on Wasteland 2's Progress @ GamesIndustry

shihonage

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My name may not be featured prominently on the back of an Interplay CD, but I've traced the steps he's going through -

There's a reason your name isn't featured on the back of an Interplay CD....you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. Obsidian managed this entire type of thing from scratch in a year with F:NV and MOTB. They almost made it with KOTOR 2( a couple more months would have been enough as it was originally slated for a Feb release not pre Xmas). Obsidian also didn't/doesn't have a big team.


I neither want to poop on optimism, nor to suppress being authentic to what I see, and the end result is often perceived as the former.

New Vegas dialogue editors said:
J. David Atherton....supervising dialogue editor
Frank Turbe.... supervising dialogue editor
Matthew Brown....dialogue editor
Dustin Burford....dialogue editor
Chris Candio....dialogue editor
John Chominsky....dialogue editor
Jacob Craner....dialogue editor
Harrison Deutsch....dialogue editor
Rob Ellenberg....dialogue editor
Erik Foreman....dialogue editor
Brook Lynn Fraser....dialogue editor
Ryan J. Frias....dialogue editor
Bawo Ijirigho....dialogue editor
Iryna Kucherenko....dialogue editor
Andrew Mezzi....dialogue editor
Micheal Patterson....dialogue editor
Greg Sais.... dialogue editor
Aaron Seiden....dialogue editor
Brad Semenoff....dialogue editor
Jaimie Siedow....dialogue editor

But...

Obsidian is also lending a hand to Fargo. I think MCA will be a lot more valuable as someone that can advise how to manage all this kind of thing in a short time than as a celebrity guest writer.

... from your lips to Fargo's ears, eh? Maybe the hand Obsidian is lending them will be big-ass huge.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
The writing would be better if they scrapped all the writers and let MCA-sama write the entire damn thing.
 

EG

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The writing would be better if they scrapped all the writers and let MCA-sama write the entire damn thing.

And the game will center on the struggles of several mafia families fighting for control of HighPool.
 

felipepepe

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BTW, did we get to a konsensus on the stuff we'll send to Fargo to include on the game, the location, statue & itens?
 

Roguey

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Running over a stoplight, driving away a few blocks, then coming back to see it back to normal is cause and effect held together smartly?

I have no idea if GTA has any "cause and effect" (didn't play) but DERP? What life changing effect do you expect from a broken stoplight? That's really all you could do? Couldn't find a better example to argue that there no effects?
Cause and effect worth mentioning: It remains that way forever. Or a couple of repair people drive up and actually repair it. There's no C&E worth mentioning in the missions themselves, there's a huge story mission/world gameplay segregation.
Ah, right, it's Roguey. Tell me some more about how Leprechaun Annah is sexist.
What an odd tangent.
But, actually I don't remember any big fucking choices in Wasteland if I think about it. Fargo kept wanking about it, and I think still does, but what the fuck were the amazing choices and most importantly consequences in Wasteland?
It was one of the first games with a persistent world. Unlike GTA.
 

Mother Russia

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900 pages in a couple of months?? Even with multiple writers that's quite amazing. Too amazing*. A good story needs time to flow, as the writer needs to think about it. Also, multiple writers on a story usually means the story ends up getting disjointed.

*Unless ofcourse the 'pages' are actually really small/with big font.

Anyway, I know this will be turnbased, but will it be partybased? And if so, do you get to control the partymembers in combat?
 

Johannes

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"The story now is 900 pages long"


And? Doesn't mean anything.

Well, unless you are brain-dead, it means something. For example, it means that a good group of people is hard at work. You know, some other teams took 1 month just to 'transitioning' to a full-time position....ehm....

It could be 900 pages full of retardation. Quantity doesn't mean it's good.

Derp. You could say that about anything he says in any interview. We won't know if the game is good until we see some gameplay.
What? We won't properly know that until the 7th playthrough.
 

Alex_Steel

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Some people really don't understand what an analogy is.

As a sidenote, the way 'Beautiful Clown Painting' makes successive posts full of rage kinda scares me.
 

mbpopolano24

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Ah ah ah... good one. In order for VD to be 'vindicated', W2 must be delayed until... uhm.... 2020 more or less....

You have the looks of a spambot or a BCP alt, but whatever. I'd think Alexandros is talking about VD's claim that the release date might be too optimistic for the amount of work that needs to be done, not however long it may have taken him to release his own game (without a $3m Kickstarter, by the by).

Thank you, my good man. I've never been complimented before about my good look on the internet, but you are not far from the truth. I just went to plastic surgery to make my eyes bigger... glad you noticed... kiss kiss
 
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900 pages in a couple of months?? Even with multiple writers that's quite amazing. Too amazing*. A good story needs time to flow, as the writer needs to think about it. Also, multiple writers on a story usually means the story ends up getting disjointed.

*Unless ofcourse the 'pages' are actually really small/with big font.

Anyway, I know this will be turnbased, but will it be partybased? And if so, do you get to control the partymembers in combat?

Bro have you been living under a rock past few months?

Anyway, yes, it's partybased, just like original. You create 4 rangers and you control them everywhere (in gameworld and combat), however you can recruit 3 more npcs, (up to 7 partymembers), and those npcs will obey your commands but not to the letter like your rangers, but based on their personality, preferences, and the charisma of your ranger with which you command them to trade you... Also you can play with only 1 ranger and 6 npcs if you with so. All combinations are valid.
 
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The problem was that I stopped drinking and the night when I posted this shit, I had drunk again and went totally crazy. But then I'm still ambivalent towards Fargo, I don't know if he's genuine or a weasel, the "Bard's Tale" reboot really made me angry , especially the marketing shit that he was spouting, and I really hope that "Wasteland 2" won't. He made me think of some absolutely ugly guys, very clever guys by the way, the ultimate trolls, that I met in Sony BMG France and i totally went overboard. But that's my problem, not his.
 

tuluse

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900 pages in a couple of months?? Even with multiple writers that's quite amazing. Too amazing*. A good story needs time to flow, as the writer needs to think about it. Also, multiple writers on a story usually means the story ends up getting disjointed.

*Unless ofcourse the 'pages' are actually really small/with big font.

Anyway, I know this will be turnbased, but will it be partybased? And if so, do you get to control the partymembers in combat?
It's not 900 pages of a novel, I'm sure there are plenty of mundane things in there that you wouldn't want to read but need to be fleshed out. Like quick backstories for NPCs, rough placement of objects for quests, descriptions about what the player needs to do advance some quests, etc.

Also 900 pages doesn't mean 900 finished pages, I'm sure most of what they've written still needs a good amount of work. Fargo talks all the time about how iteration is the most important thing to games.
 
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The problem was that I stopped drinking and the night when I posted this shit, I had drunk again and went totally crazy. But then I'm still ambivalent towards Fargo, I don't know if he's genuine or a weasel, the "Bard's Tale" reboot really made me angry , especially the marketing shit that he was spouting, and I really hope that "Wasteland 2" won't. He made me think of some absolutely ugly guys, very clever guys by the way, the ultimate trolls, that I met in Sony BMG France and i totally went overboard. But that's my problem, not his.

Don't worry bro, we'll always be there for your drunken rants. :D However, nobody knows what will Fargo deliver. Somehow I'm not inclined to believe he will try to lie and fuck up this game for all the fans of Fallout and Wasteland. Because that would be the end of his game-making business. We can only discuss what we get. And for now, that isn't much.
 

tuluse

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The problem was that I stopped drinking and the night when I posted this shit, I had drunk again and went totally crazy. But then I'm still ambivalent towards Fargo, I don't know if he's genuine or a weasel, the "Bard's Tale" reboot really made me angry , especially the marketing shit that he was spouting, and I really hope that "Wasteland 2" won't. He made me think of some absolutely ugly guys, very clever guys by the way, the ultimate trolls, that I met in Sony BMG France and i totally went overboard. But that's my problem, not his.

Don't worry bro, we'll always be there for your drunken rants. :D However, nobody knows what will Fargo deliver. Somehow I'm not inclined to believe he will try to lie and fuck up this game for all the fans of Fallout and Wasteland. Because that would be the end of his game-making business. We can only discuss what we get. And for now, that isn't much.
I don't know if will mean the end of Fargo in the game-making business, but it would almost certainly mean the end of him making anything other than iOS and Android shovelware.
 
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The problem was that I stopped drinking and the night when I posted this shit, I had drunk again and went totally crazy. But then I'm still ambivalent towards Fargo, I don't know if he's genuine or a weasel, the "Bard's Tale" reboot really made me angry , especially the marketing shit that he was spouting, and I really hope that "Wasteland 2" won't. He made me think of some absolutely ugly guys, very clever guys by the way, the ultimate trolls, that I met in Sony BMG France and i totally went overboard. But that's my problem, not his.

Don't worry bro, we'll always be there for your drunken rants. :D However, nobody knows what will Fargo deliver. Somehow I'm not inclined to believe he will try to lie and fuck up this game for all the fans of Fallout and Wasteland. Because that would be the end of his game-making business. We can only discuss what we get. And for now, that isn't much.
I don't know if will mean the end of Fargo in the game-making business, but it would almost certainly mean the end of him making anything other than iOS and Android shovelware.

Well, I that's what I meant (I don't consider cellphone games - "real" games). I mean, if people see he tried, but the game isn't exactly stellar, nobody would hold too much against him. But if he actively tries to deceive people by spouting PR bullshit and than delivers a popamole turd, like some here suggested, surely he would be condemned to making iOS and Android "games".

I mean, the man put out vision document, and I completely agree with it - i.e. everything he said there agrees with what kind of a game I want. Don't know what people expect. Some mock that he mentioned "rescuing a kid". What's wrong with rescuing a kid? Fallout had that kinds of quests but its praised here like one of the best crpgs ever, if not the best. And I'm sure they will add some novelty and originality to distinguish themselves from Fallout, so its all good. What more can you expect? I mean it will probably be better than every single "crpg" that we got for the last 10 years (well except some indies) even if they don't quite manage to "put it together" and it has mediocre writing and combat. I just hope he makes game fun, with good gameplay and interesting things to explore and discover.

I mean:

Mass-Effect-Images-dialogue.jpg


:roll:
 
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You're right Maxson. I was just drunk and seeing GTA mentioned just made me hysterical. I still believe in the Wasteland 2 project. Like you said, it's bound to be better than the Bioware crap anyway. But Fargo should be aware that he's walking on eggs and not resort to his old bullshit marketing guerilla hustler tricks.

That's why I'm becoming wary of the video game business: they really treat us as stupid idiots. Even in rock'n'roll (which has become shit and decline since a long time ago, Nirvana or Joy Division or My Bloody Valentine being the last exceptions), people don't see their audience as morons and retards as much as the video game industry does.

They think that you can't read Dostoeivski and play Wasteland at the same time. It's beyond their imagination.
 

deus101

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900 pages in a couple of months?? Even with multiple writers that's quite amazing. Too amazing*. A good story needs time to flow, as the writer needs to think about it. Also, multiple writers on a story usually means the story ends up getting disjointed.

*Unless ofcourse the 'pages' are actually really small/with big font.
It could be 900 pages full of retardation. Quantity doesn't mean it's good.

That's funny, because when it comes to game writing I've always said "quantity over quality".

Good RPG's much less RPG's that allow players to roam free can never have good stories.

Trying to have a strong story line with cohesive plots that culminate to a satisfying ending, in something where player interaction leads is suppose to offer multiple paths is bound to fail.

But "GAMES are ART" and everyone want's to be a storytellers and cinematographers!

So the the shit that actually makes games(especially this genre) actually distinct, interactivty, options and the challenges that required said options gets cut to make way for refined writer wankery.

900 pages of content for quests and encounters is a sign that they won't try to win any nobelprizes!

Plot and the overall story line will be lean and not overly ambitious, and instead try to cram a bunch of short stories in the game instead of trying to perfect one long eloquent one.



Avellone's response, meanwhile, challenged the idea that the story a game designer can write matters at all. Instead, he explained, the systems that designers put into a game can let the player tell their own, more compelling story. He had found that perhaps the best role of a narrative designer was to "ultimately let the systems and the player's interaction with those actually create their own story." He cited experience with Fallout: New Vegas, describing the way a player brought more to the game than he could ever have intentionally written in:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...vine-and-david-gaider-pax-panel-report.71073/




We want exposition about the NOW, not tagging along to see whether the ending will be red, green or piss yellow.
 

Vault Dweller

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I mean, the man put out vision document, and I completely agree with it - i.e. everything he said there agrees with what kind of a game I want.
The vision document is nothing but good intentions. They don't make a game.

Don't know what people expect. Some mock that he mentioned "rescuing a kid". What's wrong with rescuing a kid? Fallout had that kinds of quests but its praised here like one of the best crpgs ever, if not the best.
There is nothing wrong with it in general, if it's just one of many "secondary" quests aimed to provide basic choices, but not when it's the first example of the game's choices, an example of "what everyone wants." As for Fallout, it's praised for anything but "rescuing the kid" quest.

Citing GTA and Sim City as inspirations was kinda odd and overall the interview had a strong Bethesda vibe: "I think it's going to be one of the densest, deepest RPGs ever." Show, don't tell?

Now, like everyone else I hope that it will be a great RPG simply because the universe owes us a great RPG and Wasteland 2 is probably the best candidate, but so far - 4 months since the game was funded - hope is still all we got. I mean, it would be nice to get some details, wouldn't it?

Fargo keeps talking about how he vets everything with the fans now:

"I vet everything with my fans right now," he said. "For instance, we planned to offer a special skill for the game at one of the reward levels. The fans went crazy; they said 'do not give us anything that will change the game balance.' What Wasteland 2 shows to me is that people want an emphasis on design, not on graphics. We asked them if we got more money, what would they want to see? More graphics, more audio? Every time, the fans said they wanted more game play, not more glitz."

... but what exactly did the fans see and vet so far?
 
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I mean, the man put out vision document, and I completely agree with it - i.e. everything he said there agrees with what kind of a game I want.
The vision document is nothing but good intentions. They don't make a game.

Don't know what people expect. Some mock that he mentioned "rescuing a kid". What's wrong with rescuing a kid? Fallout had that kinds of quests but its praised here like one of the best crpgs ever, if not the best.
There is nothing wrong with it in general, if it's just one of many "secondary" quests aimed to provide basic choices, but not when it's the first example of the game's choices, an example of "what everyone wants." As for Fallout, it's praised for anything but "rescuing the kid" quest.

Citing GTA and Sim City as inspirations was kinda odd and overall the interview had a strong Bethesda vibe: "I think it's going to be one of the densest, deepest RPGs ever." Show, don't tell?

Now, like everyone else I hope that it will be a great RPG simply because the universe owes us a great RPG and Wasteland 2 is probably the best candidate, but so far - 4 months since the game was funded - hope is still all we got. I mean, it would be nice to get some details, wouldn't it?

Fargo keeps talking about how he vets everything with the fans now:

"I vet everything with my fans right now," he said. "For instance, we planned to offer a special skill for the game at one of the reward levels. The fans went crazy; they said 'do not give us anything that will change the game balance.' What Wasteland 2 shows to me is that people want an emphasis on design, not on graphics. We asked them if we got more money, what would they want to see? More graphics, more audio? Every time, the fans said they wanted more game play, not more glitz."

... but what exactly did the fans see and vet so far?

Man that's just PR for that "gaming magazine". He wants to sell W2 well, and if he gets a lot of interviews some popamole crowd might give it a chance since he "presents" it by mentioning GTA and Sim City, and might even like it. And maybe we start getting some good crpgs finally? Do you honestly believe he wants to make popamole shit and all of his team development members? Like Pavlish, St. Andre, Danforth, Avellone, Stackpole all want popamole game for kids? No fuckin' way man! There are better ways to make money than this. Especially considering no fan will ever give him money if he makes a popamole turd. GTA could as well be an example of an open world (early ones) he wants to make in Wasteland 2. Rescuing the kid could be an elaborate and interesting quest? What would you have quests revolve around? Aiding factions? What? I surely don't want just "faction" quests and that game revolves around that and have nothing else and want to have some "regular" ones in my game too that have unusual and interesting development.

Also, maybe he doesn't want to spoil the game and talk about "major" quests that aren't probably completed yet, and may be prone to change.

As for the vision document, it's a fuckin' written testament should he fail and make popamole. He's not an idiot, why should he write such a document if he doesn't intend to make the game as similar as what he wrote in it?

And please don't yell fanboy, cause I'm not. I just can't be inclined to believe that he makes a parody of himself by saying things we old school fans like, and then makes a completely different game.
 

Vault Dweller

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Man that's just PR for that "gaming magazine". He wants to sell W2 well, and if he gets a lot of interviews some popamole crowd might give it a chance since he "presents" it by mentioning GTA and Sim City, and might even like it.
Sounds like an excuse. If he says something that doesn't fit the expectations, it's just the PR, man. Don't you see, he's doing it for them, man. He's gonna treat us right, you'll see.

And maybe we start getting some good crpgs finally?
Right. If enough popamole people like it. Didn't we hear it before many, many times? For the record, it's the response to your interpretation of what Brian says, not at what he says.

Do you honestly believe he wants to make popamole shit and all of his team development members? Like Pavlish, St. Andre, Danforth, Avellone, Stackpole all want popamole game for kids? No fuckin' way man!
There is white, there is black, and then there is a whole lot of grey area in between. Of course they don't want to make popamole shit. What RPG developer does? Did Obsidian want to make a mediocre NWN game? I don't think so. Did they want to make an unfinished and unbalanced KOTOR game? A mediocre spy shooter? No, of course not. These things just happen and, unfortunately, they happen more often than not.

So, by doing the whole blind faith bit, you aren't doing yourself any favors. It's a coin toss. Maybe it's going to be a faithful and awesome sequel. Maybe it's going to be to Wasteland what the Bard's Tale 2004 was to the original. I mean, you don't think that Fargo wanted to make a shitty action game, did you? No, he wanted to make a cool and awesome game and he marketed it with the same enthusiasm he's marketing WL2.

Let's open the first link Google gives us:
http://pc.ign.com/articles/536/536598p1.html

"Brian Fargo: The Bard's Tale was my first real big RPG hit so it seemed appropriate to launch inXile around a game by the same name. I have a long history with RPGs, having produced or been involved with everything from Bard's Tale, Wasteland, Fallout and Baldur's Gate. I was anxious to get back to my roots and work on another RPG. There is also a significant fan base out there, excited for a revival of the property, so it seemed like the perfect vehicle for inXile to make a cutting edge RPG title."

You hear that, Maxson? A cutting edge RPG title! Revival of the property! Sounds pretty cool, doesn't it?

"Brian Fargo: First I should clarify that we are not 100% self-publishing, we will have a master distributor who manages the sales, collections, shipping, etc. We are the publisher in regards to owning the goods, paying for marketing and managing marketing and PR. Fortunately I have run a standalone publishing operation so I'm well versed in all the moving parts and the ability to finish a game ourselves. Our gaming public will see inXile on the front of the box while the distribution methods will be invisible.

I think the most meaningful upside to a gamer is that we are not a public company that needs to ship a game in a particular quarter. This gives us the freedom to ship the game when it is ready. We can focus all of our efforts on quality gameplay. We are also buffered from having a publisher change producers and potentially have that person have "new ideas" about the direction of the game."

Sounds eerily familiar, doesn't it?

"IGN: There are a lot of RPGs coming out this fall, what's going to help The Bard's Tale beat them all?

Brian Fargo: Personality, depth, re-playability, humor and its innovative approach to things should really get peoples attention."

You tell them, Brian.

There are better ways to make money than this. Especially considering no fan will ever give him money if he makes a popamole turd.
Let's not be naive here.

Also, maybe he doesn't want to spoil the game and talk about "major" quests that aren't probably completed yet, and may be prone to change.
So what? I'd rather read something interesting, even if it's gonna be changed later, than some generic stuff that may or may not be done well.
 

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