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The train, the drones, the horror

Discussion in 'Underrail' started by toro, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. toro Arcane

    toro
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    After 8 years in "development" Rail Crossing's lost train quest is still a bloody mess.

    Show Spoiler
    If you use Persuasion to make the Drones leave the train alone then you are locked out from joining them. Make sense.

    100% Arbitrary decision because someone didn't care to add some fucking lore to the story.


    Broken promises.

    Well, I cannot wait to gas the drones.

    But seriously, could someone tell me why I should choose the Free Drones? Or why I should choose Protectorate?
     
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  2. Iluvcheezcake Savant

    Iluvcheezcake
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    Curious about this as well. Has there been any word on a possible update?
     
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  3. MediantSamuel Prophet Patron

    MediantSamuel
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I alway associated Protectorate with tincans & guns, Free Drones with leather & stealth and went to either one depending on my build. Maybe that's the low iq play.

    It does seem odd that the Persuasion option locks you out of the Free Drones, though, are they really so butthurt about using the arms & armour from the train to defend Rail Crossing that they refuse to associate with you?

    That alone makes me say Protectorate, tbh.
     
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  4. thesecret1 Scholar

    thesecret1
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    Well, to me the conflict seems rather clear (albeit rather under-represented, imo) - do you wish for what amounts to one world government in the setting, with everyone and everything falling under one government, potentially preventing inner conflict and working for a common goal, yet at the cost of lower local autonomy and freedom, homogenization of cultures, and large possibility of corruption and tyranny growing unchecked as there is nobody left to oppose it, or do you prefer a bunch of independent states, who each keep their distinct laws and cultures and ensure there is always a place for dissenters to flee to from their station, but at the cost of frequent conflicts and no common goals? It's a pretty good conflict, but, as I said, not really portrayed well in the game. In the game, it's framed "do u choose protectorate, which wants to unite stuff but is dictatorial, or do u go with Free Drones, which want freedumbs but are also violent retards?"
     
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  5. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Fascists or rebel scum, your choice. After the final mission of the fascists I never touched them again. In a way you can say that the Drones are the lesser of two evils but the fascists pay better. So if you have no qualms committing genocide in the most horrible way imaginable go fascists, otherwise I recommend going Drones.
     
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  6. thesecret1 Scholar

    thesecret1
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    I don't really see much in the way of fascist ideology among the Protectorate. They come off as a fairly generic military junta with little in the way of actual ideology. And I have a hard time envisioning someone have serious qualms over genociding stuff in a video game, especially in the context of your character brutally murdering scores more bandits, and with the Free Drones being not much better than those in terms of brutality.

    I'll do Drones since I think many different states > one giga state, though.
     
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  7. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Have you listened to Gorski during the meeting for helping the Black Eels? Did you read Ezra's reaction when Gorski tells the meeting what they will do to him and Ezra if they ever catch them? Have you even done the quest helping the Black Eels? Yeah the tin cans are fascists who have no qualms about not just mere killing, every faction is like that by the way, but condemning people to life long torment as mutants, willfully gassing them with mutagens. Also some Drones tell you what the Protectorate did to them. Hell the game is inconsistent in that you can become Protectorate and Gorksy still talking to you and not shooting you on sight for it, he hates them that much.
    By the way, if you play on Hard or below, you can avoid like 80% of combat. Autistic sadly bloats enemy numbers too much and forces you into combat much more often, one of the many reasons I am a big critic of it to this very day.

    From Merriam Webster dictionary btw:
    Pay attention to the underlined/bold parts. It fits the tin cans to a T.
     
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  8. Spark Mandriller Scholar

    Spark Mandriller
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    By convincing the Drones to leave the train you both hurt them (no more supplies) and helped Protectorate (Rail Crossing now owes Protectorate, as seen in the ending where they join up). Even if they assume you did it entirely out of a desire to help Rail Crossing you still fucked the Drones over pretty hard. It's pretty reasonable for them to not let you sign up after you just took a big step towards ruining everything for them.
     
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  9. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    The persuade option also takes a pretty big dump on the Drones ideology, not surprising they don't like you afterwards.

    Ezra sure is a moral pillar of the community and one to dole out ethics advice.
     
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  10. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Of which you are unaware at the time and therefore irrelevant. Ezra also never doles out advice. When Gorksi mentions him he just "stares at the wall". Up to you to decide how to interpret his reaction to Gorsky's comment about Tin Cans putting bullets in their heads if SGS would ever join them.
     
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  11. thesecret1 Scholar

    thesecret1
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    It's a retarded definition that fits almost any autocratic government. Habsburg Empire was fascist according to this nonsense. Fascism is a political doctrine originating in 1920's Italy, not a catch-all term for elitist autocracies.
     
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  12. Urthor Arbiter Patron

    Urthor
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    The issue isn't that the line doesn't make sense, the issue is that this is something where the player has no way to know of the consequences if they are going in unspoilt. How were you supposed to even know the Free Drones ideology at that point in time?
     
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  13. Black Angel Arcane

    Black Angel
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    I'm generally indifferent at the moment, especially because the execution of the relationship between the Protectorate and the Free Drones are, as you said it, rather under represented. However, I don't see how supporting the Drones would lead to 'frequent conflicts and no common goals'. If you pay attention, in South Underrail specifically, most, if not all of the station have no qualms between one another whatsoever. Each stations have their own functionality and sustainability. Camp Hathor hunts animals in their region and export them to the rest of South Underrail by way of South Gate Station. Junkyard had lots of junk that ended up as another man's treasure and they export it through the rest of Underrail (North included, as one of the resident mentioned). The Foundry has its mines, and from the looks of it they aren't running out of ore anytime soon and, with the conclusion of the Beast problem, I'd say they're going to dig deeper and deeper. Core City act as the only gateway between the North and the South while also simultaneously connect Lower and Upper Underrail, it has its Arena which, iirc, is also broadcast to North Underrail. We also have Rail Crossing, which is unfortunately admitted to be the weak link of the South, though I always get the impression that Buzzer's shop alone could carry it to the future. And then we have South Gate Station, which act as the one place that export Camp Hathor's produce to the rest of South Underrail, while also act a hub for settlements and stations connection, like the Foundry had no immediate access to Junkyard so they go to SGS first, vice versa.

    The only human-v-human conflicts in the setting, as we now see it, is just the Protectorate vs. Free Drones. And the raiders, with the Ironheads especially which terrorize Rail Crossing and the Foundry, and the pirates. If we didn't have the Protectorate-Drones conflict, the stations and the settlements will just go merry on its way just trying to survive and perhaps expand their life goals until one day some random schmuck transcend into a powerful individual with lots of resources and ambition to do something that might fuck with everyone else's life, and with the default conflict with other humans would be the raiders and the pirates, of course.
     
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  14. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    The persuasion option and especially its result are retarded anyway. No way in hell would a desperate rebel group give up vital supplies because some stranger dumbfuck runs around babbling pseudo-intellectual bullcrap.
     
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  15. Chaotic_Heretic Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Chaotic_Heretic
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    I always felt that Thought Control should have scripted dialouge interactions.

    Never came across a TC dialogue/scripted check in basic game though. And I didn't finish Expeditions (restarts...)
     
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  16. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    You definitely know about Ezra's character from Wyatt and/or doing the TC quest.
    The mindreaders and monoliths are in the base game.
     
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  17. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    No you do not. Wyatt describes someone resembling Ezra but he denies any connection. At most you can suspect something, but that is as good as it gets. Does not change the fact that it does not even matter what Ezra did or did not do, Protectorate eliminates any opposition whenever it can, including exposing people to horrible mutagen gas, leaving them to a worse fate than death. They are a fascist organization through and through.
     
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  18. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    Yes, but a genocidal scientist has far less clout criticizing fascists. Gorsky also isn't very far off. Remember that SGS exterminated Omega because they were in the way, they aren't really a ray of sunshine.
     
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  19. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Are you serious? Where in the game does Ezra criticize the Protectorate? As to Omega, if SGS had not eliminated Omega they would have eliminated SGS, Gorsky made that clear, and no he is not saint either. It is a dog eats dog world, no one is a saint and that is again completely and utterly irrelevant. The matter of fact is that no one else but Protectorate freakingly gasses people which turns them into psychotic mad with pain mutants for the rest of their lives. Furthermore, most communities try to establish some sort of truce and work alongside. Protectorate just waits until it can force a community into joining them, that or annihilation. I really wonder what got up your butt that you get so anal about me pointing out that Protectorate would put a bullet into Ezra's or Gorsky's head if they get the chance regardless of circumstances. Such completely and utterly irrelvant bickering completely missing the original point.
    To put it bluntly, Protectorate are among the worst scum in Underrail and the biggest fascists around who tolerate no resistance if they have the means to easily overpower their opponent, otherwise they try with political and economical maneuvering forcing people to join. Or if everything else fails, gas. Almost surprised that Styg did not give them gas chambers so even the dumbest retard gets the connection.
     
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  20. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    I just don't think they are much worse than others, guess the permanent mutation angle resonates with you.

    You could claim the same for the Protectorate vs Free Drones.

    How is it regardless of circumstance if they openly warred with the Protectorate?

    Biocorp in Expedition and (Ezra) in Junkyard? The Tchortists? Oculus doing shock therapy on the mentally challenged?

    You couldn't 'join' real-world fascists, you'd get gassed either way if they deemed you unworthy. Can't recall Protectorate gassing its own citizens.
     
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  21. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    No, it is not the same. Protectorate are invaders from the north. Drones are resistance fighters who by and large were severly harmed and oppressed by it. If you had listened to some of the stories why some of them joined the Drones you'd know. So no, it is not even remotely the same. Omega and SGS were probably around equal in power and went to war, SGS won, Omega lost. Protectorate conquers via military or political scheming, rolling over anyone they can, and those left behind of the victims formed a resistance. Plenty of people are also sympathetic towards the Drones even if they do not neccessarily condone their methods, like Sneaky or Buzzer. That is why I call the Drones the lesser of two evils. I make a clear distinction that they are not good guys either, although this is a rather moot point since there are no saints in Underrail.
    As to "they are not the worst", notice how I said "among", not "the worst scum". Yeah just because you are not alone at the bottom of the barrel does not make you any less terrible. As to gassing its own citizens, how would you know? You hardly come into contact with actual Protectorate citizens, the vast majority are military. I could equally point out that the Nazis did gas few Germans compared to Jews, Sinti&Roma and mentally disabled, and basically all of those Germans were political/ideological opponents. They also did not gas every opponent, just a very selected group. Does not make it any better or make them any less of the monsters that they were. I must know, my grandparents lived through those times and my grandmother on my father's side just turned 90 last week and is still mentally fit, though after breast and skin cancer just 2-3 years ago not in the best of health anymore.
     
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  22. Iluvcheezcake Savant

    Iluvcheezcake
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    Halp! mr Styg
    Flesh out them train quest moar

    Plz
     
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  23. thesecret1 Scholar

    thesecret1
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    I mean, what isn't can be in the future. Consider the conflict between SGS and Omega
     
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  24. the mole Educated

    the mole
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    free drones are literally on the same level as ironheads and lurkers, the protectorate are actually trying to accomplish something and keep people safe, what do the free drones do other than steal shit and kill people who try to create order and civilized life
     
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  25. just Educated

    just
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    nice try, vera
     
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