The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

Half-Life: Dreamcast port released for PC

 

What is the context of that? I mean, "puro vicio 3d"? what the fuck? maybe it's something different if spanish
Tell us more, even if just for the inherent BTE value of the information, or is it just some sort of "funny" garrys mod related image?

[Perception]

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MysteriousShadow Jan 18 2012, 12:52am says:​

Huh..? He says 4 hours and you say longer than CoD MW3..? You kiddin me? I played MW3 for about 4 or 5 hours and I still cleared only about 35%!​

+1 vote​

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Alpha_Man 16hours 14mins ago replied:​

haha he is superman​

 

"WHERE ARE YOU MARSHAL?" or "WERE GUNNA GET YA, MARSHAL"

 

Well, yeah. I bashed HL's AI a bit, because it wasn't nearly as awesome as many claim it to be, but the fact is that it was pretty shocking when the standard behaviour included basic navigation, moving in straight line towards the target, getting stuck in doorways, and, at best, strafing in predetermined zigzag pattern and crouching randomly in the middle of open spaces (Q2).

Sure, attempts at more complex behaviours were made - DN3D had jetpack aliens, SW had mooks capable of taking cover, Blood had cultists with hitscan weapons and dynamite, but all those enemies behaved very randomly and stupidly, without trying to do anything in particular. At best they could, like Blood's cultists, force mobility on player and prevent strafing at range with their hitscan weapons, but they still mostly just blew themselves up with badly thrown dynamite and cheesing it in the doorway was still working as charm.
Blood was admittedly also one of the few early games where weapon selection mattered a lot, but apart from cultists most enemies were pushovers easily killed using rote tactics. The only two exceptions were stone gargoyles and hellhounds.
Well, you had games like Hexen I and II too, but being fantasy really does make things easier as you add shields, relevant melee and magic, while removing hitscan, but Hexen I still didn't have much interesting enemies apart from bosses. II was more interesting in this regard, but had much less combat overall.

HL AI wasn't as good as the AI in contemporary Unreal, enemies in HL were overall rather derpy and could do stuff like running obliviously into lethal hazards, but they were way above usual shooter fare back then and worked towards some apparent goals. Flushing player out with grenade was an effective anti cheese tactics, AI also rarely blew itself up (usually it just looked like this when they attempted to place a 'nade and run, but got gunned down and fell on it). Now, if you watched out for grenades, you could still try to cheese it in the doorways - it took Unreal to develop AI capable of navigating level using alternative paths and realize that player camping behind the door with flak cannon is bad news - but the combat AI in HL was still definite improvement over Blood, and capable of outright inflicting not-so-tasteful rape on Q2 one.

Then you had enemies like AH-64, Gargantua and Tentacle requiring specific approach and usually specific weapons.

And SS didn't even have multiple hitboxes (though it did have armour).

Besides, I'd consider SS1 and Terra Nova a genre on their own, because of fairly different approach to controlling the character (aiming and turning independent, weapon either not shown, or not fixed relative to viewpoint) and more tactical, simulative approach.

Not necessarily - if you know the dialogue you can just rapidly click the right sequence of responses. If you don't, why the fuck would you skip it anyway, interactive or not? It would make sense if it was excessively long, but then it wouldn't be voiced.

But which script apart from the intro was so long and boring?

And I tend to not skip intros anyway, since they set up the mood, even on replays. I'm more concerned with unskippability on reloads than on replays.

Devastator had cool sprite, but, while cool, rapid-firing, miniature rocket launcher isn't exactly a novelty weapon in my book, especially if it's pretty JoAT as well.

Now a fucking gauss gun that can be overcharged to the point of firing through walls (with much recoil and extra spalling) and being capable of piercing the armour on AH-64 is definitely interesting in the gameplay, especially given that it isn't terribly powerful in most combat situations.

Sure it wasn't. I think System Shock 1 had this distinction, but reloading was quite an important part of HL gameplay and it was probably the first mainstream FPS to make it this way.

I think that barnacles were just not annoying enough. In most places they were far to easy to kill in advance and far to easy to kill safely when pulling you in.
Still, additional credit for secrets reachable only using barnacles.

I beg to differ. Sure "shit invades the Earth/Phobos" can hardly be made much different in principle, but there is still some difference between shit being "demons, cyborgs and demon-cyborgs", and shit being alien looking and well designed aliens, with stuff like homologous anatomy, different and somewhat sensible behaviour (running away when injured, not being always in berserk mode, especially on Xen, using healing stations on Xen) and alien looking world.

I have a lot of love for Xen despite all the jumping puzzles, because it's disorientingly alien which makes figuring shit out enjoyable and because if you don't just enter it in berserk mode you get to witness stuff like non-berserking aliens and some environmental storytelling. It feels more than a bit like something out of Lem's "Eden" at times. My main problem with Xen is that it's disjointed as you move around using teleporter network.

Sorry, but if we are comparing HL with doom 1 or 2 in particular, it's instant game over for id's brainchild.
The only advantage Doom has over HL is less railroading, but it's pretty flimsy advantage given that Doom is hardly open and everything else is just worse in it. If I give Doom credit it deserves (and it deserves huge amount of credit for obvious reasons) I have to venerate HL, even though it can be argued that it seeded the plague of shitty rail shooters.
Well, Diablo gave us RT iso clickfests that plagued the whole RPG genre, but I still love it.

I stopped playing Unreal for the first time in Chizra.
It felt too same-y in most locations, although, credit where credit is due, it's a fairly nonlinear level.

Terraniux was it's next not-so good moment, but that's mostly because of mercs and music - level itself was quite cool.

Ah, yes, now I remember this one. It's the first Heresiarch in game, right?

Eh, just make yourself some tea or coffee and relax. Trying to look around for various sorts of detail also helps.

Last time I checked "original" cRPGs didn't have much plot or dialogue. Are the more verbose ones some shitty RPG-something hybrids too? Since when does the amount of plot affect genre classification anyway?

Vehicles have always been an attractive gimmick for shooter devs. Is Shadow Warrior some FPS-sim hybrid, because you get to drive a tank?

Well, I could've settled it with stating that putting on your damn pants is probably a physics puzzle for you , but I will just settle for saying that puzzles have been permeating FPS games from the very beginning, same as they've done with RPGs.

Look up "interactive". You're misusing the term.

You shouldn't facepalm this hard. You've clearly damaged something.


The damage is evident from your claims that anyone here considers HL deep and thoughtful.

(Though it still beats Master - jelly much? )

The only time where HL stripped you of control was when Gordon was physically immobilized. Well, duh.

And the advantage of integrated scenes is that they can be broken up with something sudden and unexpected happening with no warning. Granted, HL2 doesn't use this capability to any significant extent, but unskippable scripts have this potential, while skippable cutscenes don't. They also can be made interactive with relatively little effort. I'd so prefer if DX:HR had iunskippable scripts instead of skippable cutscenes for the most part - if only because it would necessarily eliminate the problem of Jensen standing there like a lemon.

 

I dun geddit

What makes the first one good, and the second one bad? The only difference I see is that the second one has a button prompt, but in both cases the thing will play out and you cant do much other than watch (well, with the first one you can turn around and stare at the wall if you feel like it, but if the good thing about something is that you can ignore it, it's probably not good to begin with)

 

In the second one you as a player must do something instead of just watching - thus it's bad.

Infinitron stop trying too hard.

 

OR: you just watch a scientist getting mauled by headcrabs while you pick your nose. Compare to that cutscene where you just watch Sephiroth backstabbing Aeris while you pick your nose.

OR: the last scene of the game that happens after you already had the "final boss battle", that's just the wrap-up where you actually kill the old man in charge, with a button prompt to make it somewhat more interesting than a regular cutscene (it was the same in MW 1 and 2, by the way).

I other words, you happen to like the first one better so you exaggerate the qualities of the first one while making the second one sound worse than it is, and as you see I can do the same. Not very different from these discussions where one guy tries to make Morrowind sound like a super amazingly deep game and Daggerfall is a series of "Hey bro, get me some %QUEST_ITEM and I'll give you %REWARD" quests, while another guy insists Morrowind is a hiking simulator with furries and Daggerfall is a magical endless adventure.

Anyway, why is it a problem that the second one takes away your controls, while the first one really just lets you dick around the window without being able to save the scientist, or influence the even in any way? Would the MW scene execution be just better if you could run circles around the villain and throw rubble at him as you stay around to wathc him choked to death? Would the HL scene be just worse if you had to press a button to tap the window to try and tell the scientist dude to look behind him?

tl;dr: despite your colorful descriptions, they are practically the same thing, the difference is that one asks you to press X for awesome while the other lets you bunnyhop around the room.

 

Except it's the first one takes away your controls. Can you save the doc? No. You can't do shit.

So stop with ololo CoD but when HL does exactly the same it's DEEP.


A good scripted scene is the one that is well directed and has a skip button - or can be affected in some way by the player.

A bad scripted scene is the one which you can't skip and just have to watch and wait until it ends.

 

respected?

 

Quirky mood? You mean like going around killing shit like in Quake?

And what if I want to save the scientist OR not forcing me to care? Or let me shoot the scientist myself? Why does a DEEP and INNOVATIVE HL didn't let me? It isn't like it's a cutscene the blocks me from moving.

So why the stuff where I can't affect shit is bad in CoD but good in HL?

 

Nice, but that's also beside the point. You were saying sitting on your thumbs and watching the scientist get murdered by headcrabs is a better execution of a scripted scene than sitting on your thumbs and watch Makarov get murdered by Price.

edit:

 

Manipulate?

 

Here's how you do an Establish The Setting trick in a game.

You don't have a passive cutscene.

You instead do UNATCO HQ from Deus Ex. In a hurry? Walk in, say hello to your boss, get your stuff, and get out. 60 seconds work. And if you do want to slow down, you can visit every single room, have water cooler conversations, get some extra supplies,.etc. Most of all, you do not lose control. You actually engage in something at your own pace and style.

 

It would have been better if you could jump around Simmons and Page and throw boxes on them while they talk. Or if you could at least control the camera instead of it panning around all cool-like. That would have truly changed the FPS landscape.

 

Actually, yes, that would make the intro better. But you know what'd make it even better than that? If it wasn't fucking there. Deus Ex intro is possibly the worst thing in the entire fucking game, ruining the whole conspiracy shit right off the bat. I'm kinda thankful that the shitty rip I played the first time didn't have it - had a much better experience guessing just what the fuck was going on.

 

"Hello, I'm Evil Conspirator #1"
"Hello, I'm Evil Conspirator #2"
"I'm very evil but also very practical, it's all about power."
"Me too! And also, I'm so evil that I only have sex when the woman is on periods and my dick drinks her blood."
"Fuck yeah, we're evil!"

 

you're trolling, right?

 

Why is it that people defending retarded claims always have reading impairment? Oh wait, you're just trying to deflect. I didn't say the intro was great. I was laughing at your claim that the scene would have been made better by camera control or some other retarded Half-Life-like gimmick.