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The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Morgoth, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. pippin Guest

    pippin
    They smuggled it inside a crate full of vodka. Like every honest citizen does.

    I've seen those OTG fags everywhere. I don't care, I only follow "comedic" curators and the Codex.
     
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  2. Ed123 Arcane Patron

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    Serpent in the Staglands Wasteland 2
    Infinitron admitted sucking someone at Ubisoft off in exchange for a free holiday and a copy of MMX
     
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  3. Black Arcane

    Black
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    They're German.
     
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  4. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...t-wave-of-steam-machines-launch-10th-november

     
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  5. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Needed to play Witcher 3 in its native console mode.
     
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  6. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    SteamSpy dude does some price point analysis: https://medium.com/@galyonkin/pricing-on-steam-67d1e040b543

     
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  7. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    https://medium.com/@galyonkin/how-many-games-are-eligible-for-steam-refunds-7a4f3ea74c19

     
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  8. jagged-jimmy Prophet

    jagged-jimmy
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    More like everyone can't keep up with all the sales and slowly building an overwhelming backlog of games.

    I know it's true for me - while i was buying games i wanted to play right away in the past, now i am buying intresting games at the right price to play them "later". This explains short playtimes, as people install, check it out and then continue playing their current time sinks.
     
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  9. bozia2012 Arcane Patron

    bozia2012
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    Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again!
    From exactly 700 games I have on Steam, about 20 are store bought (almost all from sales).

    So while I haven't even touched ca. 600 of them, they're not eligible for refund anyway. I imagine lots of people are in the same situation and this fucks up the stats.
     
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  10. Executr Arbiter

    Executr
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    Finally they've implemented some sort of quality control and real curation (user reviews don't count): http://www.dsogaming.com/news/indie...m-pc-gamers-show-graphs-to-back-their-claims/

     
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  11. Jick Magger Arcane Patron

    Jick Magger
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria
    Maybe we should wait more than a few days before we start throwing around statistics.
     
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  12. Caim Arcane

    Caim
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    Qwiboo has 2 games on sale: Beyond Gravity and Bike Baron (not on Steam). They go for $2 each. They state that they sold 18 units in 3 days. If we extrapolate this for both games across a month, this is a total of $720 pre-taxes per month.

    If that's an average income for an indie dev... Well, I wouldn't quit my day job.
     
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  13. Don Peste Arcane

    Don Peste
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    Maybe ask yourself first: If Steam didn't exist, would your game be another freeware title available to play at Kongregate?
     
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  14. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
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    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Apparentely Beyond Gravity was in a sale in the week leading up to the Steam refund policy, which might explain the drastic downfall. It also makes this a case of biased data.

    So yeah, ignore the doomsayers for now and wait for better numbers.
     
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  15. Spectacle Arcane Patron

    Spectacle
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    Could this be a devious plan by GabeN to discourage indie devs from submitting crap that isn't worth playing at any price?
     
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  16. Whiran Magister

    Whiran
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    Or maybe he should create a game that isn't terrible?

    https://youtu.be/eYANkiPR4dw?t=2m9s

    I'll be very happy if people refund really bad games. I can't believe people actually release this stuff and expect people to pay for it.
     
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  17. Thane Solus LW Games Developer

    Thane Solus
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    refunding is great, the thing is that 2 hours is too much. If it remains like this i bet it will create another disgusting trend, where some devs, will make that 2 hours as awesome and as grindish as possible, and after those 2 hours, everything will be shit.


    There should a 30 min mark. You dont need more than 30 mins to know that you like that game, or if it works slow or at all on your PC. 2 hours could be good too, but knowing that can be exploited, and knowing valve support (automatic on refunds lmao), its no good... Still, its a good start.
     
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  18. Spectacle Arcane Patron

    Spectacle
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    For full length games 30min is usuallu just enough to finish the tutorial, and nobody expects that to be particularly fun. For many games it takes at least an hour to get to the meat.

    You could perhaps add an "expected playtime" value to the steam store, reported by the developer. The shorter the reported playtime the shorter the refund window. That would give devs the incentive to be honest about how much playtime they claim their games have.
     
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  19. Thane Solus LW Games Developer

    Thane Solus
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    You are right, a percentage will be better and/or based and the price, both will do. But yeah, 10-20% percent of the playtime could, but then again this will spawn trends and other things that will makes things even more horrible.

    The simpler and safest will be based on price:

    50$+ 2-4 hours
    25-50$ 2 hours
    Under 25$ 1 hour
    Under 10$ 30 mins

    Why? Cause if you give big boys triple AAA shit a small window, be sure that they invest anything to keep you in that window and after that, laugh all the way to the bank.

    But then again, if you look at the stats, around 50 or 60% of the games on Steam are not played more than 2 hours. So its pretty tricky to balance this, and some of the devs may suffer badly, others might get additional sales.

    Of course a lot of shovelware and mobile ports will suffer from this, and its great, but at the same time until valve reaches a good balance refund system, many good devs might suffer too. Will see.

    Overall its good, tweaked, this might be good for the industry and steam store quality, at least in theory...
     
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  20. sexbad? Arcane Patron

    sexbad?
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    I would imagine that some of the folks getting refunds on little $2 pieces of junk aren't going to stop there. Value said that they would penalize people who make a habit of refunding and end up abusing the system. This is good for little devs who make cheap shit that is nonetheless reputable, which some of these guys apparently are. However, you have to wait more than like three fucking days to collect data and weed out the abusers of the system. These fuckers are immediately cry though.
     
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  21. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
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    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Only 25 games on sale this week.

    Steam Summer Sale starting this week as good as confirmed.
     
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  22. Coyote Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Coyote
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    As I said elsewhere, IMO the focus on potential abuses of the refund system is overblown. The number of sales lost to people exploiting the system to avoid paying for games is likely to be negligible compared to the number gained from people who are willing to take risks on games they would have previously avoided out of fears that they wouldn't run, might turn out shit, might go on sale next week, etc., especially since piracy is still an easier way for people who want to play a game for free to do so. If anyone loses a significant number of sales from this change, it's won't be from people abusing the system; it will be from people using the system legitimately to request refunds for buggy/crappy games, people who would have been shit out of luck under the old policy.

    Let's take a closer look at the data cited by that article:

    (A) The writer is assuming based on the positive reviews that people aren't just refunding the game because it's shit. But Steam's user review system - which I assume he's basing that claim on, since the four positive reviews listed by Metacritic for the iOS version don't qualify as "a lot" by any meaningful metric - is very easily abused; just get a bunch of friends/shills to leave positive reviews for your game, and voila! "User reviews: Very Positive" at the top of your store page. Meanwhile, 17 of the 20 reviews rated most helpful for this game are negative. I've seen buggy, poorly-translated Russian shovelware with a better ratio than that.

    (B) Beyond Gravity was one of the weeklongs from May 25 to June 1. Sales dropped drastically after your game lost frontpage visibility and increased in price? MUST BE THOSE REFUNDS.

    (C) The rate of refunds increased after Valve changed its policy so that it was possible to get refunds without waiting for the planets to align and sacrificing a goat to GabeN? Well, okay. In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet.

    (D) This article kind of skirts around it, but most of the complaints from the indie scene have been from people whose games are short enough to complete within the two-hour period. As far as I can tell, Beyond Gravity is an open-ended game without any clearly-defined ending. So regardless of whether or not people are rampantly abusing the system, in this particular case the fact that they're requesting refunds only demonstrates that the game fails to provide compelling enough gameplay to keep people interested in continuing to play past the two-hour cutoff.

    I'm not familiar with Droid Assault, but of the other Puppygames games, only Titan Attacks could feasibly be completed within 2 hours by someone. If people are returning their games, it's not because they've completed them before the two-hour cutoff. And again, if your game fails to provide compelling enough gameplay for people to want to continue playing past that point, that's hardly the fault of the refund system, is it?

    I could be wrong; there could be more people out there than I'd expect who aren't willing or don't know how to pirate and who are interested in playing these games but not willing to shell out a buck for them during a sale. And I'd be open to evidence such as, say, achievement data demonstrating that a large number of people requesting refunds of a game had completed it. But the evidence presented in that article just doesn't paint a compelling case that people are exploiting the system rather than using it exactly the way it's intended.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
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  23. Bruticis Guest

    Bruticis
    It was confirmed a week ago when the mystery cards hit and the coupons expired on the 11th.
     
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  24. Jaesun Fabulous Moderator

    Jaesun
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    What is the deal with the collectible cards you get on STEAM? Can you actually buy stuff with them or what? I have like tons of them.
     
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