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Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Major_Blackhart, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. Major_Blackhart Codexia Lord Sodom Patron

    Major_Blackhart
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    It's incline
     
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  2. Tito Anic Magister

    Tito Anic
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    Last time i played it, 15 years ago - it was like that.
     
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  3. gman42 Literate

    gman42
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    Yeah the story/puzzles/NPCs are decent, and treated as more than just "flavor", but also squarely in the minority of the game. There are utilities that you can run so you're not staring at your watch waiting for animations to finish during battle, which makes it a little less obnoxious. But if you're not into primarily building your characters and watching them get stronger, it might not be your thing.
     
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  4. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    Just completed Wizardry Gaiden IV, my first venture into the world of Japanese Wizardry.

    So how does it compare with the American Wizardries?

    The main difference is that the combat is easier.
    I had no party deaths, and only lost one character. Combat was only challenging the last 3-4 dungeon levels.
    Balance was overall a bit off, especially when starting to face lvl 1 monsters again in the penultimate dungeon.

    Visually it was very pleasing with no anime and only a few cute characters, and with some nice animations.

    The encounter design was a bit poorer due partly to me not being able to relate to most of the Japanese names, and the inclusion of enemies like squids, crabs and fish on dry land. But I liked that the furry races were included amongst the enemies, and enemy figher types could be of any race, for example.

    Level design was very good in the first three dungeons, with hard puzzles and a decent amount of NPC to react with. The only downside is that the levels were of predictable size and shape, unlike Wiz 5.
    The two final dungeons were of poorer quality and much more straightforward, with four or so level lifted directly from Wiz 1, and three levels containing a rather annoying "Mandala" puzzle (I used the walkthrough for that one).

    Overall a worthy Wizardry game indeed, and I think I'll rate it above Wiz 2 and 3 at least.

    EDIT: forgot to mention that it has probably the best itemization of any Wizardry games I've played, with a large selection of items. The drops are scaled to the level of the monsters, but you only get items from fixed encounters.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  5. Max Heap Savant

    Max Heap
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    I was thinking about getting into the Dark Savant Trilogy.
    Carrying a party through three games seems pretty exciting and the first region in Wiz6 (which is the only bit of Wizardry I ever played) had a certain charm to it.

    Anything I should know in particular or can I just read the manual?
     
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  6. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

    Darth Roxor
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    Apart from RTFM, you should know that thieves are terrible and should never be used, and that you should try to clench your buttocks and go through some of the more bullshit 5x5 enemy encounters instead of savescumming till you get scrublords - otherwise you won't be levelling enough and you'll have a very bad time later on, especially in the final dunjin.
     
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  7. Covenant Educated

    Covenant
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    If you're starting with VI, bear in mind that your carrying capacity and mana regeneration are both fixed at the start of the game. So this means that you want to start with A) a decent amount of strength on all your characters and B) If you're planning on any of your characters ending up as casters (including hybrid casters), you might want to begin the game with them as pure casters with a decent amount of Piety and Int so that they have a half-decent mana regeneration rate. That said, it's not a huge deal. These bugs aren't present in VII or VIII, where things like your carrying capacity and mana regen update as your attributes change.

    Other things to note:

    Faeries can't equip most gear you find, so it would be unadvisable to make one a gear-dependant class like a Fighter or Samurai. They work much better as spellcasters, or Monks/Ninja. Starting with a Faerie Thief (with a high bonus roll) and class changing them into Ninja when you can is a popular way to go.

    VI is more RNG than VII, and I wouldn't advise an Ironman attempt.

    Try to make sure you have at least one character with access to Mage spells and one with access to Priest spells.

    Bards can be very helpful in the early game, but lategame are (in my experience) better turned into a Ranger or something.

    The final dungeons of both VI and VII are kinda bullshit with monsters much, much stronger than anything else in the game, but thankfully the dungeon in VI isn't too long and in VII it's just the final floor that you need to worry about.

    There's a bug in Wizardry VII that pure Fighter characters take double damage from enemy weapons. This isn't that bad in the early game but it's advisable to switch your Fighters to Lords/Samurai/whatever as soon as you can.

    The puzzles are generally rather fair and you shouldn't need to look up a guide for most of them. The exceptions that spring to mind are two endgame puzzles, one in VI and one in VII. In VI, there's an alternate ending route that's accessible right before you gain access to the last segment of the game. You're very unlikely to work out how to access that alternate route on your own. Also at the very end of VI, if you say a certain phrase you can get a bonus item that you import to the later two games in the trilogy. I've yet to see anyone offer any kind of reasonable explanation for how that phrase could be guessed by the player. It might as well be Shadow of the Beast II and its 'Ten pints'.

    In VII, an endgame puzzle involves something called the Gaelin Stone. Similarly to the situation mentioned above, I've never found anyone offer an explanation for how the player could be expected to solve it, other than one walkthrough that makes an offhand mention of a clue that seems to not even exist in the game based on an examination of the files.
     
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  8. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    There are patches for some of the bugs in Wiz 6.
     
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  9. Grauken Arcane Patron

    Grauken
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    This strikes me as an odd sentiment, what did you expect to find on the final floor of any RPG if not the most hardcore monsters there are
     
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  10. BEvers I'm forever blowing

    BEvers
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    The SNES version is already fully patched, has better keyboard/gamepad controls, and looks better too. Savegame transfers are overrated anyway :obviously:
     
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  11. turkishronin Literate

    turkishronin
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    It's like the best thing in the entire trilogy
     
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  12. Covenant Educated

    Covenant
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    It's a matter of degrees; I'm happy with the final floor being the hardest challenge of the game but I expect it to be a somewhat smooth curve rather than a cliff-edge, and it should still be balanced so that a well-prepared player playing intelligently should have a good measure of success. The areas in question here are difficult to the extent that it's pretty much a matter of 'Reload until the dice fall your way'. Which is fine, I guess, but I prefer the more consistent balance of the earlier areas. You could play through the whole of Wizardry 7 up to that floor without reloading, with a bit of luck, but good luck taking it to the end through those robot fuckers.
     
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  13. gman42 Literate

    gman42
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    Important clarification to this: In Wiz6 for whatever reason they made vitality the controlling attribute for mana regen (PIE and INT control something like mana added at level-up and general spellcasting effectiveness IIRC). Specifically you want to give your characters 16 VIT to start to get a +1 bonus to each realm's regen. VIT also adds to CC (half the effect per point as STR though) so it helps on both fronts.
     
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  14. Grampy_Bone Cipher

    Grampy_Bone
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    You had to have been underleveled, I carved through those things like a whirlwind of death.
     
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  15. Atomboy Atom Team Developer

    Atomboy
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    Lol for some reason I just noticed this post in that forum bar on the right, and spent an hour and a half reading the last 10 pages. So many sweet, sweet memories came back to me, as I read on. Wizardry is such a beautiful set of games. My favorite is still VI with VII coming up second. Everyone should at least try to play it! There's just so much mystery, and fun, and character development, fun battles and D.W. Bradley's crazy genius and style, and his weird fetishes, and the language he uses... I still remember the castle kitchen where "now it is time who became the chef, and the kitchen is it's meal" or something along those lines. What kind of a metaphor is this?! Time cooked the kitchen and ate it up?! I laughed for ten minutes straight and then became sad... And the silly bits with Snoopcheri the stuffed beagle that was also there for some reason and the moment you know that the Queen was into bondage and BDSM. And then you meet the voluptuous Amazulis, and there's that river part which constantly loops and then my party is wiped out. And those gray bricks which are supposed to be everything from trees to mountains to cave walls to pyramid walls really became all those things for me in the imagination. I don't even wanna play the sega neptune anime remix! All because it was a true high adventure! Where you dealt with tragedy, gathered treasures, fought yojimbos, saw the folly of hubris, broke walls by summoning fat rodents with cheese. Oof. And it's not even like these games imprinted on me as a child and that's why I like them, I first played VI when I was 24, and spoiled by thousands of titles. Still, it managed to conquer my heart, just like that one other game years later!

    [​IMG] golden baby jazz-hands [​IMG]

    Show Spoiler
    lol as i typed this i suddenly remembered that my first attempt at game making was also a wiz clone :D what can show love better than an attempt to rip off the very thing you love?..
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  16. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

    Darth Roxor
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    this is the best rpg party i've ever seen
     
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  17. Serus Arcane

    Serus
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    The "fighters take double damage" bug in Wizardry 7 covenant mentioned also can be patched with mad god's editor iirc. However it applies to everyone with fighter class - which means that some monsters also stop taking double damage.
     
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  18. Twizman Novice

    Twizman
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    Interesting to hear that the return to town to save aspect came from technical limitations.
     
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  19. turkishronin Literate

    turkishronin
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    based technical limitations
     
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  20. Covenant Educated

    Covenant
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    Huh, maybe so, but it's worrying to hear that. It's not like I went through the game thinking 'You know what this needs? More combat!'. Though to be fair, I'd have had no problem swapping a few dozen of the Gorn Lancer fights for a couple more Emerald Dragon ones. Or some of those devilfish or crows for more giants and demons.

    I think out of all of them, the series of fights with the trees (culminating with Tobogan, I think?) was the best combat sequence in the game. Really felt like a true test of attrition.
     
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  21. Max Heap Savant

    Max Heap
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    I wonder what happened to D. W. Bradley
    The guy isn't much older than Warren Spector but I haven't heard anything from him since Dungeon Lords.
     
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  22. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    I find Bradley far more noble than a guy like Spector, as he brought us two of the finest games ever created, followed by a decent followup, and then pure decline (but still fun) Dungeon Lords.

    After that, instead of exposing us to his increasing madness ala Lord British or Specter, he instead ascended to a higher plane, and the last humanity ever heard of him was a brief but positive and good natured interview with felipepepe.

    God speed, DW Bradley
     
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  23. zwanzig_zwoelf NOT FRIENDRY PERSON Developer

    zwanzig_zwoelf
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    I was wondering about it too. As far as I managed to dig up, this happened.
     
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  24. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    Before Wiz 6-7 (and don't forget 5) he also made the very ambitious Cybermage, an interesting proto Deus Ex but too hampered by the technical limitations of the time.

    Now his manly mustache is haunting the dreams of the CRPG Addict.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  25. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    I really do like how he just showed up out of nowhere, helped to make prob the best trad Wiz game (after the first I guess), and then followed up by making two absolute fucking masterpieces basically on his own.

    I do like W&W and even to some extent Dungeon Lords (better than oblivion 10/10 FIVE STARS), but I think it's clear he probably felt he had accomplished everything he wanted to (creatively) with Wiz 5-7 and possibly W&W, and was just trying to make money for his new company with DL.

    People burn out, especially with creative stuff, and especially with certied megagenuises like Bradley, so I suppose he figured out he could work 1/5th the time and make 5 time more money converting mobile apps.
     
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