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Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Major_Blackhart, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. Grauken friEndly mUrderpUmpkin Patron

    Grauken
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    may be of interest to some of you

    The not-so-basic mechanics of Wizardry

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    The not-so-basic mechanics of Wizardry

    Around 2012-2014, Thomas William Ewers reverse-engineered the Wizardry code and published compilable Pascal source to Asimov, which was invaluable for understanding not just the mechanics of Wizardry, but also for decrypting the data behind monsters, characters, items, weapons, treasures, and furthermore, understanding what all of those stats actually do.

    Parsing the source code still took a lot of effort to gain the understanding that I have, and quite a bit may still escape me. Variable and function names are Ewers’ invention, are terse, and don’t always best reflect what the variable or function does. A lot of logic behaves very strangely by modern standards, with single variables that serve multiple purposes, spaghetti code, and data which gets copied from variable to variable and back. It’s often hard to tell what a thing is supposed to be doing at any given moment. There are some stats and intricacies that are barely used or even not used at all, including logic for encounters that don’t exist in Wiz1, and some very complicated logic in the treasure system that seems to never be invoked by any of the treasures in the game. I’ve glossed over such things, but may return to it when I cover later Wizardries which may or may not involve them.

    In many cases, I have chosen my own names to represent variables in the Pascal code, rather than use the names that Ewers chose, which, by his own admission, aren’t always the best names he could have used. For instance, what he calls LUCKSKIL[0], I call “Save vs. Death.” Bear this in mind if you decide to look at the Pascal code yourself and cross-reference it with my notes.

    I won’t detail things that are self-explanatory, or that are already described in the original manual.

    Character stats
    Race not only determines your “base” stats, but it also grants a bonus to a saving throw. I’ll get into saving throws later; they are not mentioned in the manual or ever explicitly acknowledged in the game, but they are part of it.


    STR IQ PIE VIT AGI LUC Saving throw
    Human 8 8 5 8 8 9 -1 to Death
    Elf 7 10 10 6 9 6 -2 to Wand (useless)
    Dwarf 10 7 10 10 5 6 -4 to Breath
    Gnome 7 7 10 8 10 7 -2 to Petrify
    Hobbit 5 7 7 6 10 15 -3 to Spell

    Bonus points and gold
    When creating a new character, bonus points to assign to stats are typically 1d4+6. However, after these are assigned, there is a 1/11 chance of getting an additional 10 bonus points. And after that, as long as you don’t have 20 points already, there’s a 1/11 chance of getting ANOTHER 10 bonus points.

    Approximate odds of bonus point ranges are:

    7-10 90.9%
    17-19 6.2%
    20 2.3%
    27-29 0.6%

    Initial gold is set to 1d100 +89.

    Strength
    The only purpose of strength is to affect two hidden stats, “HitCalcMod” and “HitDam,” which affect your melee accuracy and damage. Values below 6 incur a penalty to both, and values above 15 incur a bonus to both. There is essentially no difference between a strength of 6 and a strength of 15. More on this later.

    IQ and piety
    Whenever you level up, each spell that you are eligible to learn has a chance of (IQ/30) to be learned. For priest spells, this is (Piety/30), of course. The first spell in each circle will always be learned as soon as it is possible to.

    Each combat round, each character has a chance of (IQ + Piety + CharacterLevel)/99 to identify a monster group. The monster group identified is randomly chosen from 1-4, and if the monster group selected doesn't exist or has already been identified, then nothing happens.

    Vitality
    Chances of a successful Di or Kadorto are the target's Vitality * 4%. A success permanently lowers the target's Vitality by 1.

    Chances of successfully raising a dead character at the Temple of Cant are (Vitality * 3%) + 50%.

    Chances of successfully restoring an ashen character at the Temple of Cant are (Vitality * 3%) + 40%.

    If a player's vitality goes below 3 for any reason, they are LOST. If this happens when leveling up, you get the "YOU HAVE DIED OF OLD AGE" message.

    When leveling up, high and low vitality grants a maxHP bonus or penalty, which stacks with the class bonus.

    VIT Effect
    3 -2
    4 -1
    5 -1
    16 +1
    17 +2
    18 +3
    Agility
    Each round, each character has an initiative roll of 1d10. Initiative is further modified by agility.

    AGI Init. mod
    3 +2
    4,5 +1
    6,7 0
    8-14 -1
    15 -2
    16 -3
    17 -4
    18 -5

    The modified result is clipped to the 1-10 range.

    Monsters’ initiatives are each set to 1d8+1. Everyone acts in order of initiative, from lowest to highest.

    If you step into a pit, each character has a chance of (Agility - Maze Level) * 4% to avoid damage.

    If you Malor into the castle moat, each character has a chance of Agility * 4% to not drown.

    Agility affects thievery success rates. More on that later.

    Luck
    Luck affects your saving throws. More on that in a minute.

    Luck also appears to be programmed to do something when you teleport into rock (see the function BREAKPOS in SHOPS2), but I can't figure out what it does or why it would matter at that point.

    Saving throws
    Saving throws are a nearly invisible game mechanic, never listed on character sheets or explicitly referred to ingame. There are five saving throw types; Death, Petrify, Wand, Breath, and Spell.

    Save vs. Death resists the effects of poison, paralysis, and critical hits in combat. It does not resist these effects from traps.

    Save vs. Petrify resists the effects of stoning in combat. It does not resist the effect of petrifying traps.

    Save vs. Wand does nothing at all!

    Save vs. Breath resists breath attacks and gas traps. A successful save against a breath attack cuts the damage in half. A successful save against a gas trap nullifies the effect. It does not resist any spells.

    Save vs. Spell resists the effects of the Montino spell, of anti-priest traps, and anti-mage traps. A successful save against Montino nullifies the effect. Priests and mages who save against such traps will be paralyzed (rather than stoned). Samurai and bishops who save against such traps will negate the effect (they are paralyzed in a failed save).

    The chance for a character to make a successful saving throw can be expressed as:
    (CharacterLevel/5 + Luck/6 – ClassBonus – RaceBonus) * 5%

    Race and class bonuses are always negative, meaning that in this formula, you are subtracting a negative, which is the same as adding a positive. I already listed the race bonuses, but these are the class bonuses:
    • Fighters get -3 on Save vs. Death
    • Mages get -3 on Save vs. Spell
    • Priests get -3 on Save vs. Petrify
    • Thieves get -3 on Save vs. Breath
    • Bishops get -2 on Save vs. Petrify, Wand, & Spell
    • Samurai get -2 on Save vs. Death & Spell
    • Lords get -2 on Save vs. Death & Petrify
    • Ninjas get -3 on Save vs. Death & Breath, -2 on Save vs. Petrify & Spell, and -4 on Save vs. Wand

    MaxLev
    This hidden stat remembers the highest level you’ve achieved without getting drained - e.g. you reached level 10 as a fighter and then changed your class to a mage and are now a level 1 mage, but you now have the HP of a level 10 fighter. To reflect this, your MaxLev=10.

    If you get level drained, then your new maxHP gets set to:
    OldMaxHP * NewCharacterLevel/OldMaxLev

    And your MaxLev gets set to your new reduced character level.

    So for instance, if you're drained from level 2 to 1, you would normally lose half of your maxHP. But if you were a level 10 fighter previously, then you’d lose 90% of your inflated maxHP, which is pretty harsh!

    Level
    Your chance to heal ASLEEP status per round is Level * 10%, but not more than 50%.

    Your chance to heal AFRAID status per round is Level * 5%, but not more than 50%. As far as I know, no monsters in Wizardry I inflict this status.

    Your chance to resist Manifo is (Level * 10%) + 50%.

    Your chance to resist Badi is Level * 10%.

    Your chance to resist Katino is Level * 20%.

    On casting Haman or Mahaman, there is a chance of 1/Level of losing spells. In this event, each known spell has 50% chance of being unlearned.

    Loktofeit has a success rate of Level * 2%.

    If you open a trapped chest, or misidentify a trap type when disarming, the odds of not triggering the trap are Level * 0.1% (in other words, abysmal at any level).

    A bishop's chance to identify an object is (Level * 5%) + 10%.

    Successful or not, there is a 35% - (Level * 3%) chance of accidentally equipping a cursed item.

    HitCalcMod
    A hidden stat mentioned previously, used to determine your hit odds.

    Base value for fighters, priests, samurai, lords, and ninjas is (CharacterLevel/3) + 2.

    Base value for mages, thieves, and bishops is (CharacterLevel/5).

    If your strength is higher than 15, you get a (Strength – 15) bonus. If it’s below 6, then you get a (6 – Strength) penalty.

    This value is further increased by equipping weapons, each of which has an invisible value.

    Each strike’s chance of hitting is:
    (HitCalcMod + MonsterAC + (3*Victim) - 1) * 5%

    I am not 100% sure what “victim” means, but I think it refers to the monster’s group position in the fight. A group in the first position would have a victim value of 1, a group in the second position would have a victim value of 2, and so on, meaning monster groups in the rear group ranks are more vulnerable. This would be counterintuitive, and I have had trouble testing this theory, but it’s still my best guess on how it works.

    ArmorClass
    Base of 10, and reduced by armor and magic. All magic effects stack, except for multiple casts of Maporfic. Parrying has the invisible effect of reducing your AC by 2 for the round.

    Your chance to be hit in melee per strike is:
    (MonsterLevel + ArmorClass) * 5%

    HealPts
    Base of 0, and increased (or decreased!) solely by equipment. Every step and combat round has a 25% chance of healing your HP by this amount. Can be negative.

    CritHit
    Boolean value, always true for ninjas, and conferrable to non-ninjas with some items. When true, you have a chance to inflict critical hits.

    SwingCount
    The number of strikes per combat round.

    Fighters, samurai, and lords have values of:
    (CharacterLevel/5) + 1

    Ninjas get:
    (CharacterLevel/5) + 2

    10 is the limit for these classes, and every other class only gets 1.

    Each strike has its own chance to hit or miss, as determined by HitCalcMod.

    Some weapons have a SwingCount value of their own. This does not stack with your character's value; the higher value is the one that takes. For thieves, mages, priests, and bishops, this is the only way to get more than one strike per round.

    HitDam
    An invisible stat representing your damage dice. Base value is 2d2, and is overridden when equipping a weapon.

    If your strength is higher than 15, you get a (Strength – 15) bonus. If it’s below 6, then you get a (6 – Strength) penalty.

    So let’s say you are a level 1 ninja with 17 strength, and you have a 1d6+1 weapon. Your ninja class allows you two strikes per round at level 1, and your 17 strength confers a +2 HitDam bonus. When you attack, you hit up to twice, and each hit will do 1d6+3 damage.

    LostXYL
    A multi-purpose variable. This stores the coordinates in the dungeon, as well as your awards, which in Wizardry 1 only include the chevron. But during an active expedition, the ‘X’ value of your coordinates is instead used to store your poison value. Because of this quirk, disbanding your party cures poison.

    When poisoned, every step and combat round has a 25% of reducing your HP by 1. The engine allows for poison values greater than 1, but there are no game events that can raise your poison value past 1, and being poisoned while already poisoned does not make you more badly poisoned.

    Wizardry
    Dispell has a base success rate of 50% + (Level * 5%) – (MonsterLevel * 10%) per undead monster.

    Bishops learn Dispell at level 3, and have a -20% penalty.

    Lords learn Dispell at level 8, and have a -40% penalty.

    Priests always have Dispell and use it without penalty.

    Anti-mage traps affect mages and samurai.

    Anti-priest traps affect priests and bishops, but not lords.

    New mages and bishops start with Halito and Katino. Characters who change their class to mage learn Katino.

    New priests start with Dios and Badios. Characters who change their class to priest learn Dios.

    All spellcasting classes have two spellpoint values, used for the purpose of determining how many SP’s are gained per circle per level. The bishop is treated as two separate classes here, one for its mage spells and one for its priest spells.


    A B
    Priest 0 2
    Mage 0 2
    Bishop (Priest) 3 4
    Bishop (Mage) 0 4
    Lord (Priest) 3 2
    Samurai (Mage) 3 3

    SP’s per circle per level are determined by this formula:
    [Character Level] – ValueA + ValueB – (ValueB * Circle)

    The value is clipped to the 0-9 range.

    So, for instance, a level 9 bishop would receive spell points accordingly:


    1 2 3 4 5 6 7
    Mage 9 5 1 0 0 0 0
    Priest 6 2 0 0 0 0 0

    A character is guaranteed one spell point in each circle for each known spell. This number is not added to the previous value, but compared, and the bigger number takes.

    For instance, suppose a priest reaches level 9. The formula says his priest SP’s should look like this:
    9/7/5/3/1/0/0

    But suppose he miraculously learns all six priest spells in the fifth circle, and already knows all of the spells in the first four circles. His guaranteed SP’s, then, would be:
    5/4/4/4/6/0/0

    The game compares the value for each circle and selects the bigger one, resulting in:
    9/7/5/4/6/0/0

    Through this mechanic, an accomplished spellcaster can change classes and retain a respectable SP pool, because spells are not forgotten when changing classes or losing levels.

    Former spellcasters who changed class can actually learn spells when levelling up! All characters are eligible to learn spells in any circle where they know at least one spell. A Mage who reaches level 13 will automatically learn Malor. Even if he learned no other level 7 Mage spells, he could then change to a Fighter or Priest, and then be eligible to learn more level 7 Mage spells, simply because he already knows one. However, if a Mage changed class before learning Malor, he would only be eligible to keep learning level 6 Mage spells.

    Thievery
    A thief's chance to successfully inspect traps is Agility * 6%, but never more than 95%.

    A ninjas' chance to successfully inspect traps is Agility * 4%, but never more than 95%.

    Calfo works 95% of the time.

    All other's chance is Agility * 1%.

    A failed inspect or Calfo will reveal the name of a random trap type.

    The chance for a thief or ninja to disarm a correctly identified trap is:
    (50 + Character Level - Maze Level)/70

    The chance for anyone else is:
    (Character Level - Maze Level)/70

    If disarming fails, the chance to avoid setting off the trap is Agility * 5%.

    Ninjutsu
    Whenever a ninja inflicts damage, the odds of delivering a critical hit are (CharacterLevel * 2%), but no more than 50%.

    Multiple strikes do not grant multiple chances to inflict critical hits. The overall attack gives one chance for a critical hit, and only if it inflicted at least one damage point.


    Despite what the manual says, you are better off equipping ninjas. Unarmed ninjas do 2d4 base damage. That's better than the 2d2 of other classes, but it’s not hard to find better weapons! Ninjas can score critical hits just as well and just as frequently with weapons as without.

    As for armor, a naked ninja’s AC is:
    8 – [Character Level]/3

    Not really worth it, I think! A naked ninja would need to be level 21 to match the effect of wearing just Evil Plate +3.

    Leveling up
    When you level up, each stat has a 75% to change.

    If a stat changes, there is an (AgeInYears/130) chance that it decreases by 1 point. Otherwise, it increases by 1 point.

    If a stat would decrease from 18 to 17, there is a 5/6 chance that it will stay at 18 anyway.

    If a stat would increase from 18 to 19, then it will stay at 18 instead.

    Whenever you level up, your maxHP is essentially re-rolled.
    • Fighters and lords roll d10’s.
    • Priests and samurai roll d8’s.
    • Thieves, bishops, and ninjas roll d6’s.
    • Mages roll d4’s.

    Each class rolls once per level, except for Samurai, who roll one additional time (e.g. a level 5 samurai rolls 6 times). Each roll is further modified by the character’s vitality.

    So, for example, if a Thief reaches level 12, and has vitality of 18, this means rolling 1d6 +3 twelve times and summing the results. We would expect an average sum of 78. This sum becomes the thief’s new HP, provided it’s bigger than the previous value.

    If the new HP value is not greater than it was before levelling up, then the result is discarded and you just gain 1 HP.

    Because maxHP is recalculated on each level up, and it can’t go down, it trends toward the high end of what’s possible for your class. This is also why HP gains are slow after switching classes; your HP is higher than it “should” be for your new class at low levels, so your HP won’t grow until you’re a high enough level that you “should” be gaining again.

    Aging
    Surprisingly, and contradicting the manual, resting does NOT increase your age! Is this a bug?

    Age is internally stored in weeks, but displayed in years.

    New characters are a random age from 18 years, to 23 years and 39 weeks.

    Changing class ages the character 1d3+3 years, plus 44 weeks.

    Disbanding the party ages everyone in it 25 weeks.

    Any service at the Temple of Cant ages the character 1d52 weeks.

    Despite what the manual says, age does not affect the success rate of resurrection. Vitality does, though.

    Statuses
    Statuses from best to worst are:
    OK, AFRAID, ASLEEP, PLYZE, STONED, DEAD, ASHES, LOST

    It is not possible to have multiple statuses, and if you are inflicted with one while already inflicted with another, then the worse status will keep. Poison, however, is not a status, and can exist concurrently with one.

    Prices to cure status at the Temple of Cant:
    • PLYZE: 100 * CharacterLevel
    • STONED: 200 * CharacterLevel
    • DEAD: 250 * CharacterLevel
    • ASHES: 500 * CharacterLevel
    Poison is automatically cured when returning to town.

    Alignment
    The party alignment is determined by its first non-neutral member. If all members are neutral, then the party is neutral.

    Neutral and evil parties will never encounter friendly monsters.

    If you choose to fight a friendly group of monsters, each good party member has a 1/2000 chance to turn evil.

    Misc
    Every step has a 1% chance of an encounter.

    Kicking a door into a treasure room which has no treasure chest has a 12.5% chance of causing an encounter.

    When you run, odds of success are:
    39% – (MazeLevel * 3%)

    If the party size is 3 or less then add this to the above odds:
    20% - (PartyCount * 5%)

    If the monsters are demoralized (e.g. some of them want to run), then add 20% to the odds.

    Running NEVER works in level 10!

    In any unfriendly encounter, there is a 19% chance of surprising the monsters, and a 15.4% chance that the monsters surprise you.


    That’s plenty for this post, but we’re far from done. More data is to come in the subsequent posts.
     
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  2. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    Wizardry 5 (PC)
    Man, I just cannot make any progress in this game. I keep getting wiped trying to make meaningful progress on level 7, so I decided to play it safe and just SLOWLY explore it—I'm talking, explore a room, win a battle, and then run to the chute down to level 8 and escape.

    However, even if I use this extremely tedious strategy, I often get drained and or party wiped on my way back to the castle on level 8. I just can't think of what I can even do in these encounters; I'm using TILTOWAIT with both mages and often the cleric's multigroup damage spell, too (since MONTINO basically never works), but enemies seem to be highly magic resistant, so you can't even rely on TILTOWAIT really. On top of that, I can't remember the last time the game allowed me to run from combat; can you even escape from the encounters on level 8? It really seems like a crapshoot and totally up to luck if you'll survive. Is there some extremely useful spell I'm missing?
     
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  3. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    I don't recall Wiz 5 being that brutal. Unfortunately it's a while since I played it, so I don't remember any detailed tactics.
     
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  4. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    Oh for pete's sake... I was just reading the manual to check for hints I missed and... you can quick save in the dungeon???? I've been playing this like Wiz 1-3 all this time and only saving in the Castle lol

     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
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  5. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    You're more hard core than you thought.
     
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  6. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    I wish I had known about the quick save all along. :( I would have finished this game months ago!

    I now quick save at the beginning of whatever level I'm currently exploring. If I get some horrible outcome (party wipe, key item stolen, some other worse-than-death outcome from traps), I just reset the game and restart from the dungeon save. The game doesn't save each step or even during/after combat, so I don't feel like I'm cheating that much as I'm using an option the game itself provides.

    In a couple hours of play I've got all of level 7 (besides the stuff in the center blocked by the card guys) and all of level 8 (that I can tell) explored, so I'm pretty certain I'm at or near the endgame. I dunno if I can finish this at average party level 15, but we'll see!
     
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  7. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    Careful when saving near the end, as it may mess things up if you reload, and make the game unwinnable. At least that's what happened to me.
    I once swore that I would never replay Wiz 5, but since I didn't technically finish it, maybe I will one day.
     
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  8. JDR13 Augur

    JDR13
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    Call me a pussy, but Wiz 8 is as far back as I go in that series. :)
     
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  9. Grauken friEndly mUrderpUmpkin Patron

    Grauken
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    Pussy
     
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  10. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    I've been keeping daily save backups, just in case that happens :)
     
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  11. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    Wizardry 5 (PC)

    Yikes, that SORN battle is brutal. There's no way I can beat this game at level 15. I got through all the clone battles and stuff without a problem, saved right before SORN and tried maybe a dozen times, didn't even come close to winning (yes, I know you need to dispel the field around SORN). The best I did was get the combat down to SORN and one demon, but it was still hopeless as they both cast multitarget high damage spells, so I had zero chance of winning.

    I've read that in other versions SORN's field protects both you and the enemies, allowing you to buff up a few rounds before dispelling. Unfortunately, in the DOS version, the field merely protects SORN, which means you are getting multiple multitarget damage spells launched at you straight from the first round. :(

    There's unfortunately not much out there in terms of strategies for the DOS version, plenty on the SNES version of course. The CRPGAddict's strategy was to save before the fight and reload until he got an "easy" group, and wrote that it took him 40 reloads until he got something manageable. That sounds just as boring as just grinding up levels.

    I did save in front of the SORN battle, but unfortunately got a party wipe and wasn't quick enough to close the game before it hit the main menu, so I had to restore my backup from before I did all the ritual stuff on level 7/8. Next time, I'll get all that done, save and quit before SORN, and back that save up.

    Then, I've got two strategies I want to try out next:

    1 - Start out right away by blasting high level damage spells from all spellcasters in the hope of destroying everyone but SORN ASAP (this will probably end in failure because all SORN needs to do is cast high level damage spells each round for two rounds to knock out half my party).
    2 - Start out by having my mages and samurai cast Cortu to hopefully build up some magic resistance, while everyone else focuses on taking out everyone but SORN. Next round, break down SORN's field and see how it goes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  12. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    Wizardry 5 (PC)

    :dance:FINISHED!:dance:

    I redid all the rituals, got back to the SORN, backed up my save and... defeated it on my first try!

    Just as I posited, strategy 2 above worked great. In the first round, I had my priest cast BAMORDI to summon the Gatekeeper, and my two mages and samurai cast CORTU to build up some magic resistance. This was very effective and kept my party alive and healthy for the rest of the combat (with the exception of my weakest mage, who died immediately). From then on it was TILTOWAITx2 every round, MABARIKO from my priest, and physical damage from my fighter and samurai. Even my thief held her own and sniped some of the weaker minions from the back row. SORN herself went down to a lucky TILTOWAIT that got through her defenses, and the final round was the five remaining party members versus one very injured cacodemon.

    I raised my dead mage, healed everyone up to max HP and strolled back to level 7, down to HELL, and then up back to the castle like total badasses.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  13. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    Having now taken a single party through the DOS versions of Wiz 1-3+5, I want to just make a separate post with my overall thoughts.

    Before going through these games over the last couple of years, the only experience I had playing any of them was fooling around with the NES and DOS versions of Wizardry 1. I never saw the appeal back then, and I figured they now were only of historic interest due to how influential they were. However, I had a total blast playing these games! There were some frustrating moments, but these are some of the best games I have ever played.

    Overall thoughts:

    Wizardry 1: Tied with Wizardry 5 as the best of the bunch. Great and memorable dungeon design and balanced very well; if you take your time and explore/map, you'll always be just about ready for the next dungeon level. Even the dreaded WERDNA battle was not as bad as I thought it would be.

    Wizardry 2: Dull and short. It's like a victory lap for your party, where you just get more and more insanely powerful throughout the game. I am pretty certain I finished this in a single drunken night.

    Wizardry 3: Fortunately, it's more substantial than Wizardry 2; unfortunately, it's the most poorly-balanced game in the bunch. The game often forces you through anywhere from 5-10 fixed encounter rooms in a row just to get from point A to point B. On top of that, enemies give hardly any experience and treasure chests hardly ever give you anything of value. Then you have the tedious alignment-restricted levels. I was happy to get this one over with.

    Wizardry 5: Tied with Wizardry 1 as the best of the bunch :). Excellent dungeon design, possibly the best of the early series. It's balanced pretty well up until you reach the last 15-20% of the game or so, when the game gets much more difficult. The addition of rear rank weapons, some interesting new spells, NPC interaction, and item-based puzzles makes this game feel like the true sequel to Wizardry 1. It even plays different in that the game doesn't automatically save the game state as frequently AND you can quick-save in dungeons. I got frustrated with this one (partly because I didn't realize I could save and continue in the dungeons until I was nearly at the end of the game) but loved it from start to finish.

    [edit] Oh! I also want to thank aweigh for championing these games, because I would never have played through them had I not read his passionate and insane ( :lol: ) posts in this very thread.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  14. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    Wait til you play Wizardry Empire 2, I think you'll really like it. Most advanced Wizardry game made and bridges the gap between Wizardry and Elminage. It takes the best of the elements introduced by Bradley and integrates them perfectly into a very polished Wiz formula; it truly delivers some great dungeoneering. It's my favorite Wizardry, followed closely by Wiz 5.

    You can grab the ISO for the game from several places, including abandon ware sites, and then just use the english patch from romhacking dot net if you want. Wiz Gaiden 4 is probably the 2nd best of the japanese Wizardry games, and as good as it is I don't think it is in the same league as the Wizardry Empire games. Those are special.

    EDIT: I think I remember you saying you had played Wiz Empire 1 on PSX?
     
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  15. Zumbabul Novice

    Zumbabul
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    aweigh, have you thought about defending PhD about Wizardry games? Or maybe writing a book about Wizardry? You are probably number 1 expert in the world on this topic.
     
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  16. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    I had a similar experience five years ago.
     
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  17. Jason Liang Arcane

    Jason Liang
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    The problem is the genre doesn't deviate from the formula. If you spent hundreds of hours of your childhood playing the original Wizardry like I did, something like Elminage Gothic is just too familiar with freaky anime art.

    The only blobber that stands out (besides Wizardry IV) is Rance VI, since Rance VI actually has an awesome story. So blobber gameplay used as a storytelling medium is innovative.
     
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  18. Grauken friEndly mUrderpUmpkin Patron

    Grauken
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    you are wrong
     
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  19. AdvancedHero Educated

    AdvancedHero
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    I just want to say, dang, there is so much good stuff in this thread. I was just going back and reading some of aweigh's analysis of the whole Wizardry experience, and it is some really enlightening stuff. I'm really starting to realize the sheer brilliance of the Wiz 1-5 system. Makes me want to actually play through some of the games...
     
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  20. BlackGoat Arbiter

    BlackGoat
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    Do it, man. I played Wiz 1,2,3 and 5 for the first time in the last 4 years and they're legit great games. Very pure gaming

    And then you can start fucking around with Elminage
     
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  21. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    AdvancedHero
    If you want to play the classic Wiz games but don't want to do all of them, I'd recommend playing Wizardry 1 (it's fantastic and doesn't take very long to finish, even if you play cautiously) and Wizardry 5 (the ultimate classic Wizardry experience, very long and meaty game).

    I love the DOS versions, but would recommend playing the PSX ports of Wiz 1 & 5, as they are pretty much perfect ports but have some modern bells and whistles (no autosave, optional automap.
     
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  22. Lady Error █▓▒░ ░▒▓█ Patron Literally Hitler

    Lady Error
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    That's because JRPG's copy the Wizardry 1-5 formula and ignore the expansion of the concept that the later Wizardries provided. There should have been many more games like Grimoire.
     
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  23. Grauken friEndly mUrderpUmpkin Patron

    Grauken
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    I like the SNES version of Wiz 5
     
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  24. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    It's probably good if you can ignore the offensive censorship.

    As I wrote earlier in the thread
     
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  25. Grauken friEndly mUrderpUmpkin Patron

    Grauken
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    Obviously I played the version without the censorship

    https://www.romhacking.net/translations/2866/
     
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