[Theory] It all comes down to weapon "impact" in FPS

[Eyestabber]

Haven't been playing RPGs or strat games in the last couple months. What matters is that I'm mostly doing FPS'es (due to their "memory-free" state) and I think I broke their "core". What makes a good FPS? What makes the shooting "feel right", something everyone argues but rarely elaborates on? Weapon impact.

From the very beginning, really. Doom improved upon Wolf3d precisely with its more impact arsenal and a simple-yet-effective "pain stun" system that was mostly absent in Wolf. Sound design also plays a major role in this (eg: Counter-Strike).

How to fuck a good FPS? Replace impactful guns with nerf guns. Prime example: FEAR 2. Good example: Doom 3/Quake 4

Actually, what is it with this duo? I never climbed the hate wagon, but nowadays I clearly see there is something "off" about those games. Enemies remain unfazed for most of your shooting, until the time where they unceremoniously drop dead. There isn't much of a back and forth between player attacks and enemy reaction. Shotgun feels underpowered (except it isn't, it just "feels" like that). Even Doom 2016 managed to pull better core-shooting mechanics.

IMO the "best" implementation of gun impact in a vidya, to this date, remains F.E.A.R + Extraction Point. Killing multiple enemies with the shotgun in slow-mo usually results in one jizzing his pants. Nailing dudes to walls, removing limbs with a surgical laser, GODDAMN how the fuck did nobody ever managed to improve upon that formula and it was mostly just tossed aside? Understandably, FEAR 2 is my "most hated shooter of all time".

Crazy ragdolls and GIBZ also play a role, IMO. DUSK uses both to great effect. FEAR2 reduced ragdoll flying effects to make it more "realistic" and thus made the game even more castrated. Actually, from CS to CS:GO you see a consistent effort towards toning down crazy ragdoll effects, doing away with the old and fun "HEAAAAAAAAAAAADSHOOOOOOOOOOOOT" * dude flies over backwards * and replacing it with a sterile animation.

Quake 3/UT delivered in that department with their mutiple gory ways of killing someone and seeing his gibz flying around, or a body missing a couple limbs. Amazing how modern "shooters" need a big flashing "YOU KILLED RANDOMFAGGOT420BLAZEIT" popping every now and then, to make up for the lack of proper animations.

Oh, and whoever thought shooters should be about slow movement speed, ADS cancer and basically "playing hide &seek with guns" should eat a double barrel shotgun blast to the face. Enemy Territory was the most ridiculous and most FUN mutiplayer FPS I played to this date.

 

[Master]

Reason being that I'm studying like crazy for some sweet career change and nevermind, nobody cares.

Why did you mention it then?

 

[Eyestabber]

Reason being that I'm studying like crazy for some sweet career change and nevermind, nobody cares.

Why did you mention it then?

There, m8. You can now take the stick out of your ass and focus on the thread topic.

 

[BANANA CONDUCT]

Oh, and whoever thought shooters should be about slow movement speed, ADS cancer and basically "playing hide &seek with guns" should eat a double barrel shotgun blast to the face.

YES!
When I play a shooter, I want to GO FAST

And I basically agree with the thread

 

[Master]

Well yes, all good shooters have good gun impacts. But you need good AI too. Unless the bad guys consist of demons, mutants, mindless monsters and such. Then you better have great gun impact, sounds etc.

 

[J1M]

OP is correct. The reason I didn't like Division 2 is because the weapons felt like paintball guns.

 

[what am i doing]

EYE had great guns. Not much impact on enemies but fortunately most enemies died fast so you would see plenty of limbs and heads blown off, and dead enemies often thrown back by the killing shot.

Most importantly the sound effects were superb.

 

[Master]

Another thing you need is good blood effects

 

[Eyestabber]

FEAR 2 is the oblivion of shooters.

When I play a shooter, I want to GO FAST

According to Call of Duty, every military outfit in the world only employs dudes with severe asthma and sprinting for more than 10m is considered a superhuman feat. Also, military horse blinders are standard for everyone. Like the FOV man, wtf is wrong with the FOV. I found myself googling what's teh "human FOV" because of modern FPS'es. Never had that curiosity back in the day.

Dropped Alien: Isolation the minute I looked at that cancer inducing FOV.

 

[Beastro]

Reason being that I'm studying like crazy for some sweet career change and nevermind, nobody cares.

Why did you mention it then?

Because he's procrastinating making a thread like this instead of studying and he knows it~

 

[Eyestabber]

Reason being that I'm studying like crazy for some sweet career change and nevermind, nobody cares.

Why did you mention it then?

Because he's procrastinating making a thread like this instead of studying and he knows it~

Sad but accurate. Saturday is a business day in my "official" schedule.

 

[ultra loser]

FEAR is the only shooter where I quickload encounters a few times just to make it more stylish or try other tactics, no other FPS has shooting that fun.

 

[Ezekiel]

OP is correct. The reason I didn't like Division 2 is because the weapons felt like paintball guns.

One of the reasons I don't play any Ubisoft shooters anymore.

 

[Master]

FEAR is the only shooter where I quickload encounters a few times just to make it more stylish or try other tactics, no other FPS has shooting that fun.

I do that too, and also with Far Cry. Though theres no quicksaving there...

Oh, and whoever thought shooters should be about slow movement speed, ADS cancer and basically "playing hide &seek with guns" should eat a double barrel shotgun blast to the face. Enemy Territory was the most ridiculous and most FUN mutiplayer FPS I played to this date.

You should try Far Cry then. Nothing wrong with a bit slower and tactical pace.

 

[Darth Roxor]

IMO the "best" implementation of gun impact in a vidya, to this date, remains F.E.A.R + Extraction Point. Killing multiple enemies with the shotgun in slow-mo usually results in one jizzing his pants. Nailing dudes to walls, removing limbs with a surgical laser, GODDAMN how the fuck did nobody ever managed to improve upon that formula and it was mostly just tossed aside? Understandably, FEAR 2 is my "most hated shooter of all time".

It's rare when I get to agree with every single word said, but the above paragraph is basically that.

I actually played FEAR 2 only very recently (like 2-3 years ago maybe), because back when it was released I only checked the demo and quit in terrible disgust. I tried it recently because I thought "hey maybe it's at least competent, I mean screwing up a shoota completely is hard", but then I launched the fucking thing and everything came back to me at once from the very start, like an icepick to the forehead.

 

[DraQ]

Weapon impact is very important (and you can go a long way understanding that - see Guncaster/Guncaster Vindicated Doom mod) but it's hardly sufficient, nor necessary.

Case study: Quake 2
Weapons are generally rather impactful but the (SP) game is bland and enemies are a joke. An unfunny one.

Case study: Unreal 1
Weapons lack oomph (at least in audio and numerical damage department), yet it's one of the best FPSes ever thanks to atmosphere, diverse environments and threatening enemies.

Also, there are many different kinds of weapon impact:

• weapon audio (satisfying BLAM!s)
• weapon anims
  
• audio visual (and mechanical) hit feedback
• damage dealt and 1hk potential

Movement speed is also important, the only acceptable exception being if you aim for all out realism.

 

[Master]

Q2 SP is a blast. Enemies are okay. Also

"Unlock Hard+ Mode

This difficulty setting becomes unlocked by typing (without the quotes) 'Skill 3' at the console. If you have entered the code correctly a message will appear on screen saying 'Skill will be changed for next game'. In Hard+ mode enemies will not flinch when you shoot them and they will have higher health than in Hard mode. "

Stop the lies, start the truth!

 

[DJOGamer PT]

What makes a good FPS? What makes the shooting "feel right", something everyone argues but rarely elaborates on? Weapon impact.

From the very beginning, really. Doom improved upon Wolf3d precisely with its more impact arsenal and a simple-yet-effective "pain stun" system that was mostly absent in Wolf. Sound design also plays a major role in this (eg: Counter-Strike)

What your talking about here is "Game Feel". This is something that every action should get right because it has a lot of influence in the enjoyment of said game. This however is very hard to achieve because it involves a lot of different aspects of the game: sounds, visuals, animations, different kinds of effects and even the mechanics themselves - plus every game is different so there isn't a one size fits all solution for this problem of game design.

Oh, and whoever thought shooters should be about slow movement speed, ADS cancer and basically "playing hide &seek with guns" should eat a double barrel shotgun blast to the face. Enemy Territory was the most ridiculous and most FUN mutiplayer FPS I played to this date.

Alright, now your're being unfair here.
The objective of these 2 types of games is completely different. One focuses more on twitch reflexes, map control, muscle memory and overall better skill. The other focuses instead on improvisation, patience, careful analysis and planing (and in case of multiplayer, teamwork) - and while skill still helps you out, what the devs are trying to reward here (and who's indeed more rewarded in these games) is not the most skillful player but the most smartest one. One seeks adrenaline, the other tension.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with these 2 approaches. Both of them produced great games.

 

[Excommunicator]

FEAR is the only shooter where I quickload encounters a few times just to make it more stylish or try other tactics, no other FPS has shooting that fun.

Am I the only one who doesn't like this, at all? Whats the difference between playing like this and just a really slow paced game?

 

[janior]

I think the music ruins the clip.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Whats the difference between playing like this and just a really slow paced game?

Slower paced shooters are more Stop 'n Pop. That one is Run 'n Gun.

 

[DraQ]

Q2 SP is a blast. Enemies are okay. Also

"Unlock Hard+ Mode

This difficulty setting becomes unlocked by typing (without the quotes) 'Skill 3' at the console. If you have entered the code correctly a message will appear on screen saying 'Skill will be changed for next game'. In Hard+ mode enemies will not flinch when you shoot them and they will have higher health than in Hard mode. "

Stop the lies, start the truth!

Done that. Doesn't get noticeably less piss easy.

 

[rolandz_Baton_PROD]

IMO, the most important thing in a FPS is the AI (providing that said FPS is single-player).

Good AI is not only challenging to fight, but also responsive to the player in their tactics and mechanics, giving the player many choices and considerations to counter-act it.