Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Thief 2 fan missions and campaigns

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by SCO, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. Melan Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Melan
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,349
    Location:
    Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae, Hungary
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    If we are talking about pointless, huge and empty areas, the Haddur series has a city mission consisting of endlessly cloned street segments arranged in a pattern of three or four concentric rings, mainly looking like this:
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    It was so supremely dull that I kept playing just to see when it would end (a long, long time later, it turns out). That was around 2004, the time I decided the well was dry and I needed a big break from playing Thief missions.
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    18,821
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I remember Haddur. It has one of THE longest Camvators in the history of DromEd.
     
    ^ Top  
  3. skacky Prestigious Gentleman 3D Realms Developer

    skacky
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,490
    Location:
    The City
    I rather like pointless rooms because of three things:
    - You don't know what you may find if you're playing the FM for the first time and stumble upon them;
    - They're good for atmosphere and make the place look bigger;
    - They're good to hide bodies especially if nobody comes inside.

    Now, of course, if all your rooms are pointless then you have a problem.
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    18,821
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    More digging in the T1/G archives:

    "Poor Lord Bafford" is the oldest one I have, dated in early June 1999. And it shows. After Garrett made off with all of his valuables, Lord Bafford retreats to his summer estate - which looks surprisingly like a square brick. To be honest I'm not sure why I kept it around. 'Senile' is the best word I have for it, as it's both old and bizarre. There are design decisions there I can't begin to fathom, like the free-range ladder in the basement, or the nonsensical inclining platform just before it. It feels like something out of a DromEd tutorial or an early 48-hour mission. And yet, there's the occasional clever bit, like a nicely decorated ceiling in a antechamber.

    Next-oldest after that (by only a few days) is "Death of a Lady" where Garrett must break into a corner estate and kill the lady of the house. Despite having better architecture than the last one, its age clearly shows in other areas, like the guard who ran after me, got stuck on a cart and stayed there for the rest of the mission, always running. Or the door I couldn't get through because of an invisible wall in the doorway. Going in without killing anyone is actually a challenge because of all of this, but that's about the only reason to visit this FM nowadays.

    The only other FMs I have from 1999 are "Autumn in Lampfire Hills" and "Bloodstone Prison" which are at least worth a playthrough.

    EDIT: Am playing through "Bloodstone Prison". Wow, this one is brilliant. But it seems I have a problem. Some of the undead look to be human, I mean 'flesh-and-blood-and-very-much-alive" human. Is this normal?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
    ^ Top  
  5. Yandros Learned

    Yandros
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    Fields of blue grass
    Those last two are widely regarded as among the best TG fan missions. I can't help you on your question, though, not sure I ever played it and if I did it was over 12 years ago.
     
    ^ Top  
  6. Dev_Anj Learned

    Dev_Anj
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Messages:
    468
    Location:
    Auldale, near the great river
    So it looks like the author used whatever trick JIS used in F to make zombies behave and look like humans.

    I would say no, unless you have some weird textures to change them up.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    18,821
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I think that trick is simpler than that. If I'm right, it's a question of what AI/script is assigned to the critter. Apply the TreeBeast AI/script to a human critter, for example, and you get a human that stomps around with its torso bent forward, much like a charging bull. Ruins of Originia used that to great effect on headless models.

    As for Bloodstone Prison - I checked by looking at videos of the FM on YouTube, and something's wrong. Those archers are supposed to be Haunt archers, but instead they're just standard guards. That servant zombie in the kitchen is just a servant who acts like a zombie.

    Now the question is whether this is a problem with my installation, or whether TFix screws up the FM.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Max_b5 Learned

    Max_b5
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Messages:
    211
    Location:
    Argentina

    I think I know what's your problem... you have updated 3d models for TG right? the author of this fm used different textures (undead) for human models but he did not overwrite the .bin and .cal files. If you want to see them as undead, uninstall the enhanced 3d models for AI's (mesh folder) and re-install the FM.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. Dev_Anj Learned

    Dev_Anj
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Messages:
    468
    Location:
    Auldale, near the great river
    I think JIS' trick is more complex than that. See, the zombies behave and look like human beings, down to thier attacks. But when you fight them, they get hurt with holy water arrows, ignore gas arrows and explode like zombies. I've not seen that sort of thing in many fms. Captain of the Guard does something sort of similar, in that all the enemies immediately turn into coins upon death.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. Melan Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Melan
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,349
    Location:
    Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae, Hungary
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    If you know a little Dromed, these tricks are surprisingly easy to pull off. You can just switch around various properties and metaproperties, and they will follow the game's robust logic. You can have a table that highlights if you approach it and behaves as a chest if you turn it into a Container. You can take a door object, change its textures, resize its physical model, uncheck the box that blocks vision when closed, and add some transparency to create a skylight. You can create a coin that blows up in your face like a mine, AI that walks around randomly in a blue room and pulls levers for in-game effects (like lightning and thunder), a keeper glyph that reads like a book, or turn an ordinary chair or coat-rack into a logical hub regulating mission objectives or AI behaviour (this used to be very helpful in times of resource scarcity). Dromed is an odd beast with even more odd terminology ("fnords", "terrainlikes", etc.), but if you get to know it, it is almost like a programming language that makes you do almost anything you want. Building complex things with it very often feels like being a hacker.

    Then you cross the wires somewhere where you aren't supposed to, and it blows up in your face, but that's a different story.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    ^ Top  
  11. Dev_Anj Learned

    Dev_Anj
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Messages:
    468
    Location:
    Auldale, near the great river
    :D

    That would be nice to see in Kaizo Thief. Speaking of which, I would totally play a campaign that redoes Thief: Gold and Thief 2 mission in a Kaizo style. Doors hitting the players face, floors flying to the roof, AIs having instakill stares ...heh heh heh.

    I suppose you would have examples of such stories. Could you share a few?

    I remember the Thief 2X team complaining in their developer commentary about how everything was green and blurred when they copied brushes from one map to another, and they mentioned that "You can never master Dromed, it always masters you."
     
    ^ Top  
  12. Melan Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Melan
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,349
    Location:
    Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae, Hungary
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    No laughing-out-loud stories. More like having the compiler stop abruptly due to hitting some obscure or undocumented limit, or corrupting your map (rare but it has happened), or a terrain brush which has so far behaved normally suddenly becoming a self-contained terrorist unit and causing compiler crashes until you locate and nuke it, or random polygons getting rendered as pitch black, or... you get the idea.

    Dromed was never meant for general release, and was only made available due to fan enthusiasm, in an age when publishers were still allowed to listen and respond to fan enthusiasm. It is a dev team's private editing platform, full of quirks, duct-tape fixes and in-jokes. Not something John Carmack would be caught close to.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. skacky Prestigious Gentleman 3D Realms Developer

    skacky
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,490
    Location:
    The City
    yo, homefry
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    18,821
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    The only "laugh-out-loud" Thief glitch I recall was when I opened a set of double doors in some FM, only for the doors to hover forward then clip out of the field and off the map.

    I later heard that's one of the more common DromEd glitches.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. skacky Prestigious Gentleman 3D Realms Developer

    skacky
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,490
    Location:
    The City
    That happens often in Assassins in one of the closets on the ground floor.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    18,821
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Still going through the T1/G files: "A Dark Secret" is a strange one. Garrett must break into a mansion, steal a crystal and a mask, then return the crystal to the Keepers. Even though this mission is dated 2010 in FMSel, its design, architecture and qurkiness suggest something far older. Long, wide hallways and an environment that's on rails for 60% of the mission, then two circles for the remaining 40%. I don't get why I held on to this one, it offers no real challenge except finding the key to the safe at the end.

    In related news, I just discovered that there are updated versions available of several missions - "The Tower in the Forest, "Autumn in Lampfire Hills" and last, but not least, "T2X" in a standard FM format. Worth a try, seeing as I haven't played T2X in years.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Messages:
    24,026
    Location:
    Secret Lab of the Warrior-Magus of Esoteric RPGism
    So, finished the Gems of Provenance campaign. Gave it a rating of 9/10, really fucking great missions, not the best I've ever played but amazing nonetheless. They're among those missions that come the closest to Thief Gold's original atmosphere.
    While the two new missions in the campaign were really awesome and well-designed, I found them to be sightly disappointing as they were much less surreal and dreamlike than the first two. Also, I think stinkykitty added some new readables to the first two that explain the weird architecture and area design, which somehow substracts from the experience a bit. The dreamlike-ness was one of the original two missions' greatest strengths, everything was kinda weird but you didn't care because, like in a dream, it made sense anyway.

    Still, amazing camapaign and the closest to original TG atmosphere I've played. There was one other mission that came even closer, and that was Augustine's Revenge. This campaign could have been released as an official addon and it would have fit perfectly.

    So, the new missions:
    that water plant thingie: Awesome! It has a lot of variation and so many different paths you can take! I probably took one the author didn't intend because when I approached two guards, their conversation didn't trigger... when I walked past them, it did, so I came from "behind" the trigger. I took Unkillable Cat 's advice and jumped into the toilet for some fun exploration time. Found a hole in the floor after some exploring, it led to the ancient city. But I didn't jump in yet, instead I searched for a way back up and explored the plant for a while. Good undercover mission, it was a bit easy to single out targets and knock everyone out then hide them, though. The cameras in the museum were nasty. Those things are the kind of challenge experienced taffers are looking for, not searching 5 hours for a tiny little switch hidden inside somebody's buttcrack. The ruined city was interesting to explore, too, lots of loot to grab and the puzzle wasn't too hard because I found the secret room near the museum. Great variety, great progression, very well-designed mission.
    Mercenaries: Holy shit, stinkykitty put a LOT of guards into that one! I liked the castle, it was pretty well-designed and had some cool hidden places accessible by rope arrows. Didn't mind the keyhunt, although I had to check the location of the air key in the TTLG thread. Found the fire key by accident because I had to extinguish that fire anyway in order to sneak past some guards, heh. Again, a very varied mission with many ways to go through: multiple access points for the castle, and later in the mission you get to explore some trapped keeper vaults. I didn't like these all too much, then again I never like missions with a platforming focus all too much (platforming is for Tomb Raider, not Thief), but it added to the variety of the mission so I didn't mind it.

    Variety really is the big theme in stinkykitty's work. Not one of his/her missions is focused on just one type of environment, each of them combines several different themes and environments and it's really effective in creating fun missions. This guy/girl is shaping up to be one of my favourite FM authors. Really looking forward to the next couple of missions.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    ^ Top  
  18. Dev_Anj Learned

    Dev_Anj
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Messages:
    468
    Location:
    Auldale, near the great river
    Personally, I think the greatest strength of this mission pack in general isn't so much that it's weird as in that it uses textures, patterns and surfaces to create areas that feel like they were hidden away and have lots of interesting details to them, like the small chapel near the mines or the grassy ruins near the mountainside hideout. It also helps that they often don't look like an ordinary high or low profile location, like the mountainside hideout for instance. Generally, the variety of environments is often done well enough that it doesn't feel too abrupt, but at the same time provides a decent sense of progression. Like in the museum mission, the level really feels like you go from the grand public displays to the barer staff areas, to the rough industrial water works, and a cave leading to a temple.

    My favourites from the mission pack were the second and third missions, the first one had a bit too much empty space for its own good, and the last one had one part suffer from guard overload, the other part was designed like a platforming level even though the unpredictable physics don't really support it. I was okay with some of the empty spacing in the second because the second one generally had more expansive vistas and the first parts were more focused and had less annoying guard placement than the first one.

    Still a great mission pack though. Definitely want to see what else this author has planned.
     
    ^ Top  
  19. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    18,821
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Just finished "Augustine's Revenge" since JarlFrank had been talking about it and I had it in my T1/G archives.

    This is a good cityscape mission, with little nooks and crannies everywhere to cater to explorers, a LONG journey through said cityscape, and a ludicrously high loot requirement on Expert (almost 90% of the total 14500 loot).

    That said, it's not without its faults. There are at least two ladders that will give people troubles getting off of them, a few lamps and torches block Garrett's progress, ghosting this mission seems impossible (water tower guard) but the absolutely worst part is the writing. OH LORDS the writing is so horrible. Garrett must avenge some nobby who hired him to screw over another nobby who's also screwing with the maid. The problem is that almost every readable that involves secret, clandestine, not-a-word-about-this kinda dealings are written CLEARLY and PRECISELY on notes that seem to be far too common and far too easy to spot. The Lady of the manor is also screwing with one of the guards? Fair enough, but for them to leave little notes around for each other, whose meaning is clear to everyone to see?!? Is this manor a retard asylum?

    At first I was willing to be forgiving due to its age, until I realized that I misread, the FM is from 2009, not 1999. That makes some of these blunders kinda inexcusable.

    This FM has a lot going for it - but it could also use some improvement. Recommended only for the cityscape journey.
     
    ^ Top  
  20. skacky Prestigious Gentleman 3D Realms Developer

    skacky
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,490
    Location:
    The City
    Augustine's Revenge is definitely ghostable, and you can even Perfect Thief it.
     
    ^ Top  
  21. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Messages:
    24,026
    Location:
    Secret Lab of the Warrior-Magus of Esoteric RPGism
    Eh, didn't even notice the dumb writing when I first played it because the cityscape was so enjoyable to explore and the texturing and architecture give it that awesome Thief Gold vibe that few missions manage to achieve.
     
    ^ Top  
  22. Melan Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Melan
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,349
    Location:
    Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae, Hungary
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    There was a story? Maybe. I treated Augustine's revenge as a pure gameplay mission. [E:FB]
     
    ^ Top  
  23. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Messages:
    24,026
    Location:
    Secret Lab of the Warrior-Magus of Esoteric RPGism
    I treat most missions as first-and-foremost gameplay missions. A good story is a nice addition, if it supports the gameplay (like Ominous Bequest or Rowena's Curse).
     
    ^ Top  
  24. Mofleaker Educated

    Mofleaker
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    30
    Wow, I just started Mercenaries from stinkykitty's pack. I just had to take a shot of the sheer fucking size of the abbey:

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]


    It's not just a setpiece either. The entirety of the roof is traversable, with multiple entrances to the place via windows. What a masterpiece.

    Oh and here's the stack of crates I used to make the shot (I still couldn't get a full view of the place):

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]


    The infinity crate is great, mate. If you haven't downloaded this mission pack, do it now.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 5
    ^ Top  
  25. Icewater Artisanal Shitposting™ Patron

    Icewater
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,810
    Location:
    Freedomland
    Project: Eternity Wasteland 2
    Can't see shit, mate.

    Also, you're not Blaine.
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)