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Vapourware thief like immersive sim design idea that i have

HoboForEternity

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I have this neat idea (i think) about a thief like game with some twist into it.

The main feature is there are 4 locations that you can do a heist. The game take place in the span of 12 days, and you can pick any level you want non-linearly. Each locations has its own unique objective, like stealing an important item, extracting information, or planting some false evidence or something.

Each level is a unique puzzle box, with unique main objective, theme, inhabitant, et plus some general side quests or objective you can do for extra money.

It also feature thief like econony, where the supply of your next mission depend on how much you earn in the current mission.

The twist is that the time you pick, your actions during that level too will affect the next level according to your playstyle.

The game will track your kill, detection status, style, even how much did you lose and news will travel and the owner of the location of your heist will change their routine depending on your actions in the previous one.

For example you pick level A in the first day. Level of alert is basically at zero, and this is the default state of all places no matter which level you start with. Thus, solving the problem of progression because the level is non linear.
For example, you pick level A at day 1, and chose to do a ghost run and steal only the main objective, the alert level wont increase much and they will notice slower, and effectively keeping the general alert level low in the next level.

Therefore the next level you do will have less guard, more relaxed patrol and precious loot will be kept more carelessly.

If you go all psycho, the alert level will go higher, affecting the next level you tackle that the level will have more guards, better armed and armored enemies as well as alot more lethal anti personnel traps and unit.

There is also an option to leave a calling card if players want a "hard mode" or challenging themselves in quiet run.
I so far have thought several states that branch out each level.

1. No kill / little loot taken = next level alert level is more or less zero or low.

2. No kill/ alot of loot taken = alert level high, but enemies for the next level are less lethal but more perceptive. For example, instead of heavy armored units, the level will be filled with guard dogs, more container will be locked, some loot change locations (for example silver goblets that is on a table at alert level 0 will be inside a locked drawer at higher, non lethal alert level)

3. Killing/little loot taken: enenies will be more lethal, the obstacle deployed are intended to physicially harms you, instead of just detecting you.

4. High kill/high loot: maximum alert mode that will fill the level with deadlier enenies and objectives/loot thats placed alot more trickier.

The alert level is permanent, and there is few ways to diminish the effect of the alert by switching playstyle. For example, by doing a kill run in first level, and pacifist run on the second, it will give you the advantage of anticipating the obstacle set in your previous playstyle.

A detection unit will be more perceptive, but have lowet HP and damage, and lethal units is harder to kill, but move slow and they detect you slower.

The calling card can also affect this, by placing a card on one heist And none at the next, and the other level will think the culprit is different person and they will be confused and deploy a balanced unit that may or may not be an advantage depending on your wit as a player.

The second gimmick is heist time management. The 12 days limit is also an important game mechanis because you pick which day and which place you tackle first. The length between heist also determine their preparation level and alert level. Also the shop supply only replenish every 3 days.

Depending on your style, "news" travel speed differ too.

A pacifist, non greedy playtrough will have the news travel in 3 days, before the next target's alert level is increased.

A moderate amount of violence and loot will increase alert in 2 days

A high alert will travel immediately.

So you have a pretty wide array of solution in your heists each with drawbacks and advantage depend on how you think.

For example, you can tackle everything at the first 4 day in low to mediun alert early and finish them off before anyone notice the hell is happening, but since stores replenish every time days, your supplies will be limited in the second and third heist.

Or you can play it in low alert, but biding you time until the store resupply, both you and your enemied are prepared for it, etc

There is also tip and info you can gather in previous levels, or bought in a high price in a store that will help you.

For example, you do level A, then find a letter of conversation between the owner of another mansion that is level B that they have events to attend in day 3 so he and his personal guards which are strong class of enemy wont be there. Which you can use to your advantage.


There basically a a dozen or so possibilities baser on your previous actions that affect the obstacle of the next level, and with the time progression, there are several added factors that can affect the game progression.

Tell me what you think!
 

Unkillable Cat

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I think it's a great idea but it's a monumental task to implement, which is why you're highly unlikely to see this emerge from a commercial title, even in the indie scene.

A dedicated home-made developer with way too much time on his hands is your best bet to see this come to life.
 

Mark Richard

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It sounds more like an idea for an open-ended sequel to Hitman: Blood Money, with the reactivity turned up to eleven. In that game each map takes place in a completely different locale such as a Las Vegas casino, Mardi Gras Parade, and a paddle steamer. Missions operate like a puzzle box with side quests for extra cash. There's even some (albeit limited by comparison) gameplay continuity as witnesses to 47's crimes raise his notoriety, making him easier to spot in future missions. I've no first-hand experience of what happened to the series after Blood Money, but from what I've read it went in a very different direction.

There is also an option to leave a calling card if players want a "hard mode" or challenging themselves in quiet run.
What, you mean like at the end of the mission one of the guards picks up an origami trollface and exclaims the elusive Dex bandit has struck again? Difficulty settings taking the form of in-game actions can be interesting as long as they're clear about the consequences.
 

HoboForEternity

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It can be seen that way, and the reactivity actually really is loosely inspired from BM.

Otherwise, the 2016 one isnt BM, but a step in the right direction and legit have some of the best level design in the series
 

HoboForEternity

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What, you mean like at the end of the mission one of the guards picks up an origami trollface and exclaims the elusive Dex bandit has struck again? Difficulty settings taking the form of in-game actions can be interesting as long as they're clear about the consequences.
yeah it is a way to forcefully raise alery level more than you can basically if you wanna ghost everything, because i thought some people who like to ghost and challenge at the same time gonna be pissed that their way of playing is the easy street. Of course if you are a murder taffer, calling card wouldnt do shit.
 

Egosphere

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Whilst on topic of thief like games, does anyone know of a good way to approach designing large, sprawling, non-linear levels?
 

HoboForEternity

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Whilst on topic of thief like games, does anyone know of a good way to approach designing large, sprawling, non-linear levels?
thief did a good way of rooms and corridors that loop to each others, encouraging choices and different approaches to the level.

This guy mentioned one of the example of how the level of thief is generally designed:



around 4:11

So basically have alot of branching corridors, or paths, some that loops into an old traversed path (thus the player discovered another route if a situation arises that they needs to revisit that area or whatever) while still considering of the placement of the rooms and corridors makes sense.

It can be also be like dark souls/metroidvania that they use the same looping trick, except each different parts are a level within an general overworld thats connected by a linear pathway, witg secret ones that you discover along the game progress.

Another unique example is like the sword from thief 1 that use its fantasy setting as an excuse and create this confusing, yet beautifully crafted impossible geometry thats really fun to learn and master. It's beautiful mental challenge because our brain is usee to the normal geometry in life, that taking it out is a great way to make a level challenging.

Jindosh mansion and the time travel level from dishonored 2 is also one of the most creative level in gaming too. By having the same room in a,different state, it creates this wide possibility of passages, loops, even puzzles that is imposibble by just normally laying out rooms and corridors.
 

Big Wrangle

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i hate the term immersive sim
I always used it as some fancy term for a design philisophy centered around emergeant gameplay. As some sort of genre specifier like som say? It falls flat. Some would say Prey does not belong because the stealth isn't that great... but so was System Shock? One could also say Thief isn't for not being as "play your way" as Deus Ex.
Those who take the term too seriously are in for a whole new can of worms.
 
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Egosphere

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Whilst on topic of thief like games, does anyone know of a good way to approach designing large, sprawling, non-linear levels?
thief did a good way of rooms and corridors that loop to each others, encouraging choices and different approaches to the level.

This guy mentioned one of the example of how the level of thief is generally designed:



around 4:11


:brodex:
 

agentorange

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i hate the term immersive sim
I always used it as some fancy term for a design philisophy centered around emergeant gameplay. As some sort of genre specifier like som say? It falls flat. Some would say Prey does not belong because the stealth isn't that great... but so was System Shock? One could also say Thief isn't for not being as "play your way" as Deus Ex.
Those who take the term too seriously are in for a whole new can of worms.
Yeah that is my issue with it, it's extremely non-descriptive and in particular something like immersion is quite subjective. Is X-Com an immersive sim, for example; the gameplay is simulationist and I personally find the whole atmosphere of that game to be more engrossing than many first person games. Or how about the STALKER games?
 

Freddie

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I really like the idea.

I think locations should be big enough to offer plausible way for different approaches and I think reactivity could also benefit from that.
 

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