Thief stuff

[Jaedar]

So... thief stuff. Seems to not really be supported for the endgame. In Teron there's lots of stuff to steal/infiltrate. In maadoran there's not so much, but at least one or two things outside of thief quests. In Ganezzar there's... nothing?

I even did some haxx0ring and looked up the checks for the thief skills (lockpicking, steal, sneak, traps) and there seems to be nothing requiring higher than 6. Now I know that is wrong for lockpicking at the very least, because I can't 'datamine' stuff that happens outside of dialogue(this goes for traps too I think). But Steal and Sneak don't really seem to be used outside of dialogue.

Am I wrong or is this stuff not there?

 

[Agesilaus]

Thieves Guild is terrific fun until you reach Ganezzar, whereupon the game requires you to have ten billion points in traps and lockpicks. Fair enough, I suppose, given that you're a thief, but it feels very sudden (at least it did in Early Access).

 

[TigerKnee]

No, I think you're right. The Ganezzar thief quest completely walled me too because it wants you to be very invested in "Thief Physical" skills in the first part (there's a door that requires Lockpicking 9 and it's potentially non-optional to win if you didn't spread your stats in the correct manner) and then it suddenly wants you to be an assassin in the 2nd (which I believe is because it actually IS a shared Assassin quest)

I went out and did a bunch of sidequests but they seem to all require you to either be a combat build or talker build and on the text adventure side, I don't think there's any investment I could make that would allow me to do the sidequests and come out on top SP-wise.

My very quick suggestions for adding Thieving options in Ganezzar is probably

Spoiler

1) Allowing an option of Stealing the Power Armour
2) In the Zealots vs Rich people questline, maybe an option to be a Robin-Hood like figure to "rob from the rich and give to the poor", the poor being yourself

Basically, it seems to me that being a combat wombat thief is basically the most consistent style if you want to win the game as a Thief.

The "physical thief" skills are honestly pretty poorly implemented in this game and I think it could use some consolidation, such as Sneak/Steal into one skill or better yet, Steal/Traps as a single "Sleight of Hand" option.

 

[Junmarko]

No, I think you're right. The Ganezzar thief quest completely walled me too because it wants you to be very invested in "Thief Physical" skills in the first part (there's a door that requires Lockpicking 9 and it's potentially non-optional to win if you didn't spread your stats in the correct manner) and then it suddenly wants you to be an assassin in the 2nd (which I believe is because it actually IS a shared Assassin quest)

I went out and did a bunch of sidequests but they seem to all require you to either be a combat build or talker build and on the text adventure side, I don't think there's any investment I could make that would allow me to do the sidequests and come out on top SP-wise.

My very quick suggestions for adding Thieving options in Ganezzar is probably

Spoiler

1) Allowing an option of Stealing the Power Armour
2) In the Zealots vs Rich people questline, maybe an option to be a Robin-Hood like figure to "rob from the rich and give to the poor", the poor being yourself

Basically, it seems to me that being a combat wombat thief is basically the most consistent style if you want to win the game as a Thief.

The "physical thief" skills are honestly pretty poorly implemented in this game and I think it could use some consolidation, such as Sneak/Steal into one skill or better yet, Steal/Traps as a single "Sleight of Hand" option.

All this is making me wonder whether I should wait another year for "Age of Decadence - Director's Cut"...

 

[Elhoim]

All this is making me wonder whether I should wait another year for "Age of Decadence - Director's Cut"...

Nope. We'll be adding some more thieving opportunities before the end of the year.

In two weeks we'll continue Basil's questline, add 3 challengers for your arena champion, and more quest solutions. It was always the idea to continue expanding the game via free updates every month based on player's feedback.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Speaking of being forced into weird skillchecks, I also found it very strange how Hamza's masterplan of infiltrating the thieves guild in Alderaan means dressing up as a hobo, and my PC has no way to disagree with this or suggest something else even though he has impersonate 1 and probably couldn't fool a guy in a coma.

 

[TigerKnee]

Speaking of Thieving opportunities, are the skill up items really only in Teron? Feng's Lore Documents and the Blacksmith's Tools.

As far as I know the only Thieving opportunity sidequest in Maadoran gives you... money, whoopie

 

[Elhoim]

Speaking of being forced into weird skillchecks, I also found it very strange how Hamza's masterplan of infiltrating the thieves guild in Alderaan means dressing up as a hobo, and my PC has no way to disagree with this or suggest something else even though he has impersonate 1 and probably couldn't fool a guy in a coma.

We are adding some extra training to the guilds, which can help here. We'll add the option to tell Hamza that you suck.

 

[Jaedar]

Speaking of being forced into weird skillchecks, I also found it very strange how Hamza's masterplan of infiltrating the thieves guild in Alderaan means dressing up as a hobo, and my PC has no way to disagree with this or suggest something else even though he has impersonate 1 and probably couldn't fool a guy in a coma.

Can always bribe a hobo to guide you in.

 

[Darth Roxor]

He's a pretty expensive hobo

 

[Elhoim]

He's a pretty expensive hobo

Or kill him and walk with him as a drunken friend.

 

[Goral]

Can always bribe a hobo to guide you in.

When I saw this option I was sure that he would take advantage of my naivety. I mean, if I ask a guy for a lot of money and he immediately pays that amount of money it's rather certain that he has more (not to mention that I would see him counting the money and giving it to me). Why wouldn't I take advantage of that in a post-apocalyptic world in a slums area? Then again, he had 500 gold in his hand and if he led me to some thugs he would have to share (and there would be a risk that he would die).

 

[Jaedar]

More weird stuff: after talking to glabrio, you exit the convo in the little desk room, but glabrio doesn't move from the center of the hideout.

Also the skill requirements here are insane. Talky thief? HAH, I hope you took the time to also get lockpicking 9(and high traps) and critical strike (or the other stuff to fight Faelan). Seriously, the requirements here are ridiculous.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Or kill him and walk with him as a drunken friend.

P. sure I could only kill and dump him on the spot.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Jaedar]

P. sure I could only kill and dump him on the spot.

I'm pretty sure I managed to use him as a drunken friend.

 

[Agesilaus]

Well, you kill him and walk his body somewhere to dump it. Then you rely on your own abilities to get in. It only serves to get the dero off your case.

 

[Joora]

Also the skill requirements here are insane. Talky thief? HAH, I hope you took the time to also get lockpicking 9(and high traps) and critical strike (or the other stuff to fight Faelan). Seriously, the requirements here are ridiculous.

Don't need lockpicking 9 if you have some (I had 3) throwing and passable (I had 5+9) str+dex, traps 6 is enough if you go the throwing route and you can kill Faelan with 4 critical, altough I guess that would require some perception too (I had 8).

 

[epeli]

The dialog adventure for infiltrating Daratan palace compound with thief skills felt a tad too long for a single dialog sequence and it offers no way to back off. All paths leading to an audience with Antidas felt forced. I understand the alternative routes are designed as a way to get to Antidas without bothering with Dellar's crap, but it shouldn't be inconceivable that a thief would want to infiltrate the compound for reasons other than meeting Antidas.

So in my thief playthrough, I went in with the expectation that I could steal phat lewt from a noble house and sneak out. Nope. I ended up testing every single route in the thing, only to find out everything railroads you towards the throne room. That was the only real moment of frustation I've had with AoD so far.

After sneaking through the compound as a thief, I gotta say it's a shame it can't be explored more openly with shorter dialog choices here and there. Squeezing such a huge area into one huge dialog tree doesn't do it justice.

 

[Saark]

What bugs me about the palace is that apparently the only route that gets you some etiquette points and the mantra is by climbing the tower, which is only possible with decent dex/str. And yes, looks like it's totally impossible to not talk to Antidas when infiltrating the palace.

 

[Carrion]

Speaking of being forced into weird skillchecks, I also found it very strange how Hamza's masterplan of infiltrating the thieves guild in Alderaan means dressing up as a hobo, and my PC has no way to disagree with this or suggest something else even though he has impersonate 1 and probably couldn't fool a guy in a coma.

Yeah, there are tons of things that pissed me off about it, like:

- Having to dress up as a hobo, of course. I don't care if that's what the plan says, it's only used for getting from A to B in an area that you can already explore in any outfit you want to. There should be an option to either tell him outright that his idea sucks, or to just ignore his advice and go there wearing full armor. There might be some repercussions for this, like getting reprimanded by your superiors or simply getting too much attention or having to take on some really tough enemies, but at least give me a choice. And of course, if you don't have a bunch of points in Impersonate you'll have to fight a possibly very tough fight wearing hobo clothes, when that dagger guy couldn't even scratch you if you were wearing decent armor.
- First you get an Impersonate check, then a combined Impersonate/Charisma check. Charisma would make sense if you're trying to disguise yourself as a noble or even a guard, but why on earth would you need Charisma to properly play a hobo? Or maybe it's an inverted check or something, the enemies instantly noticing that the incredibly handsome guy in rags cannot possibly be a beggar but a butt-ugly character getting through without trouble?
- My character had 5 in Sneak and fairly high Dexterity. How about having the option to try to sneak past those guys, taking a side alley or climbing to rooftops or something, especially if you know you'll have absolutely no chance of bluffing your way past the enemies?
- If it comes down to combat, it takes place in the middle of a fairly wide street against two or three (?) guys. There's really no reason why you couldn't just run away, perhaps trying to either outrun those guys or lose them in some other way (Sneak, again).

This is by no means the only instance in the game where it feels like you're railroaded into doing something really stupid or outright suicidal. From my experience the Assassin and Thief questlines seem to be the worst offenders.

 

[Saark]

You can skip being detected even with 0 impersonate by giving that hobo 500 gold though. Intimidating him doesn't work, he'll turn on you once you try to get pass the guards.

 

[Joora]

Don't need lockpicking 9 if you have some (I had 3) throwing and passable (I had 5+9) str+dex, traps 6 is enough if you go the throwing route and you can kill Faelan with 4 critical, altough I guess that would require some perception too (I had 8).

Apparently that extra point of dex went a long way, couldn't pass the throwing check with 8 and had to pump critical to 5 for Faelan, how high is his int+cha check anyway?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[SniperHF]

No, I think you're right. The Ganezzar thief quest completely walled me too because it wants you to be very invested in "Thief Physical" skills in the first part (there's a door that requires Lockpicking 9 and it's potentially non-optional to win if you didn't spread your stats in the correct manner) and then it suddenly wants you to be an assassin in the 2nd (which I believe is because it actually IS a shared Assassin quest)

I'm basically DOA right here. There's a few things I might be able to do and get a few more SP but its looking bleak.
Apparently the jump check is a whopping 10 DEX, I of course have 9 .

My lockpick, which was basically totally unnecessary in Maadoran is like level 5.