Incline Things are looking up, eh?

[Roguey]

Maybe Porky should float the idea now to rename us into the Action RPG Codex

 

[DJOGamer PT]

It kinda snuck up on me, but this is the first E3 in a very long time where there were multiple games/RPGs I was interested in.

BotW 2 was a good anoucement, but aside from that this year's E3 was complete dogshit.

Mostly action crap for the Skyrim worshippers.

Funnly enough, great Action games have more tight and well designed gameplay systems than 99% of all RPG's ever made

 

[Black Angel]

Funnly enough, great Action games have more tight and well designed gameplay systems than 99% of all RPG's ever made

You saying this makes me doubt you even play at least half of existing genuinely great RPGs worth their salt out there.

And even if you did, I'd assume they're not even your cup of tea, in which case you have no credibility of commenting on how tight and well designed a gameplay system of great RPGs.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

My comparasion was unfair on purpose, since I pitted great action games (not bad, decent or mediocre but the very best), against all RPG's made.

As for the RPG I played, yes they were very good ones and yes the genre is my cup of tea because I don't bother with playing games I'm not interested in.

And still the logic behind my post is very simple (I even disscussed this a while back on another thread). Pure action games are the most gameplay focused game genre there is, because they are the genre that is more dependant on their gameplay to succeed. An action game with bad/mediocre gameplay mechanics will never be a good game no matter how good the rest of the package is. So if the gameplay fails or simply isn't as that fun, the game fails. While an RPG can very well still be a good game even if it's systems aren't all that well realised.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The truth is, action RPGs have done well the last several years, while tactical isometric RPGs have not had NEARLY that level of success.

https://wccftech.com/divinity-original-sin-2-85m-revenue-2017/

Oh, we are going by sales figures now? Are we going to claim then that Skyrim is the greatest RPG eva? Cause that's about the same level as acting like D:OS games inclined the RPG genre.

 

[JarlFrank]

The truth is, action RPGs have done well the last several years, while tactical isometric RPGs have not had NEARLY that level of success.

https://wccftech.com/divinity-original-sin-2-85m-revenue-2017/

Oh, we are going by sales figures now? Are we going to claim then that Skyrim is the greatest RPG eva? Cause that's about the same level as acting like D:OS games inclined the RPG genre.

Uuuuuh yes because that's exactly what you've been saying in your post? "action RPGs have done well", "tactical isometric RPGs have not had that level of success". That was your argument. RPGs are going the action route because that's what has been established as the more successful (i.e. profitable) model. But D:OS2 was financially even more successful than a lot of action RPGs, so your argument is wrong.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Sui Generis

Kek this will come out in 3021, they still haven't finished exanima which is the prologue to this.

Lol. I couldn't believe it when I saw that it had an update this past week. Every time I think it was abandoned 6 months ago, they come through with an update.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The truth is, action RPGs have done well the last several years, while tactical isometric RPGs have not had NEARLY that level of success.

https://wccftech.com/divinity-original-sin-2-85m-revenue-2017/

Oh, we are going by sales figures now? Are we going to claim then that Skyrim is the greatest RPG eva? Cause that's about the same level as acting like D:OS games inclined the RPG genre.

Uuuuuh yes because that's exactly what you've been saying in your post? "action RPGs have done well", "tactical isometric RPGs have not had that level of success". That was your argument. RPGs are going the action route because that's what has been established as the more successful (i.e. profitable) model. But D:OS2 was financially even more successful than a lot of action RPGs, so your argument is wrong.

I never said that. I was talking about the recent success of action RPGs in terms of gameplay/writing/etc, not financial success.

 

[JarlFrank]

The truth is, action RPGs have done well the last several years, while tactical isometric RPGs have not had NEARLY that level of success.

https://wccftech.com/divinity-original-sin-2-85m-revenue-2017/

Oh, we are going by sales figures now? Are we going to claim then that Skyrim is the greatest RPG eva? Cause that's about the same level as acting like D:OS games inclined the RPG genre.

Uuuuuh yes because that's exactly what you've been saying in your post? "action RPGs have done well", "tactical isometric RPGs have not had that level of success". That was your argument. RPGs are going the action route because that's what has been established as the more successful (i.e. profitable) model. But D:OS2 was financially even more successful than a lot of action RPGs, so your argument is wrong.

I never said that. I was talking about the recent success of action RPGs in terms of gameplay/writing/etc, not financial success.

And isometric ones didn't succeed?

ATOM, Underrail, Age of Decadence, Shadowrun: Dragonfall and Hong Kong, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, etc.

Not to mention upcoming Encased, Disco Elysium and other iso RPGs which look interesting.

 

[Werdna's Revenge]

I'm way more hype'd about Disco Elysium than anything in the OP.

 

[Drowed]

I never said that. I was talking about the recent success of action RPGs in terms of gameplay/writing/etc, not financial success.

WTF, you mean that JF overestimated your argument and that it is even more stupid than what it originally looked like? Examples of "gameplay/writing" success in action RPGs please?

 

[turkishronin]

ATOM

Are you telling me people actually bought that crap?

 

[Black Angel]

ATOM

Are you telling me people actually bought that crap?

Location: where the best is like the worst

 

[luj1]

So what the hell happened to Demiurgos? Unknown Realm? Forged of Blood? SpyDNA? AKARUUK? Sands of Space?

 

[JarlFrank]

ATOM

Are you telling me people actually bought that crap?

It's the best Fallout-like RPG since Fallout 1.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

And isometric ones didn't succeed?

ATOM, Underrail, Age of Decadence, Shadowrun: Dragonfall and Hong Kong, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, etc.

Exactly.

When you compare the new action RPGs to the greatest ones during late 90s/early 2000s, you can debate which ones were better overall, but the new ones do things the old ones did not, and break new ground in various areas. There was nothing in late 90s like Witcher's writing and dialogues and characterization, or the systems and combat in KCD, or the world interaction in BotW or the vertical exploration and C&C in ELEX, or the combat and world design in Dark Souls, or the combination of C&C and open-world as in New Vegas.

But in the isometric subgenre, there is nothing even close to that. Shadowruns, ATOM, Underrail, D:OS, PoE, Wasteland, all these games re-do the same stuff games in late 90s did, just worse. Kingmaker's shitty strategy mini-game does not count as breaking new ground. So there is no parallel there.

 

[Strange Fellow]

There was nothing in late 90s like Witcher's writing and dialogues and characterization

Planescape: Torment shits all over Witcher.

the combination of C&C and open-world as in New Vegas

The C&C was done just as well in the first two Fallouts (and Arcanum) and the open world is pointless.

D:OS

Point me to the game that did gridless TB combat with elemental interaction and Ultima-like object interactivity.

Underrail

Point me to the game that let you explore a post-apocalyptic world and had good combat.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

There was nothing in late 90s like Witcher's writing and dialogues and characterization

Planescape: Torment shits all over Witcher.

PST represented all its writing as a wall of text. Witcher games represented it as spoken dialogue and cutscenes. So my point still stands: new ground was broken.

the combination of C&C and open-world as in New Vegas

The C&C was done just as well in the first two Fallouts (and Arcanum) and the open world is pointless.

Just because open world is pointless to you, doesn't make it so.

D:OS

Point me to the game that did gridless TB combat with elemental interaction and Ultima-like object interactivity.

You countered your own point here. Ultima/Ultima Underworld/Arx Fatalis/Divine Divinity/etc all had object interactivity, and plenty of games had decent turn based combat. Arbitrarily mix and matching those 2 different things, meh.

Underrail

Point me to the game that let you explore a post-apocalyptic world and had good combat.

It's a decent game (until the last part), but again, most things it did, other games did better years ago. There is nothing groundbreaking about it.

 

[Strange Fellow]

PST represented all its writing as a wall of text. Witcher games represented it as spoken dialogue and cutscenes. So my point still stands: new ground was broken.

OK, VTMB then.

Just because open world is pointless to you, doesn't make it so.

What did it add, then? All I saw was a lot of walking. You might as well praise Arcanum for that point. That game, too, was open world.

You countered your own point here. Ultima/Ultima Underworld/Arx Fatalis/Divine Divinity/etc all had object interactivity, and plenty of games had decent turn based combat. Arbitrarily mix and matching those 2 different things, meh.

Just because this is arbitrary to you doesn't make it so. And you completely ignored the point about elemental interactivity, I assume because it doesn't matter to you for whatever reason.

.
It's a decent game (until the last part), but again, most things it did, other games did better years ago.

You're just wrong.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

PST represented all its writing as a wall of text. Witcher games represented it as spoken dialogue and cutscenes. So my point still stands: new ground was broken.

OK, VTMB then.

Witcher games are on a different level from Bloodlines when it comes to writing/cutscenes/dialogue. Not even remotely close.

Just because open world is pointless to you, doesn't make it so.

What did it add, then? All I saw was a lot of walking. You might as well praise Arcanum for that point. That game, too, was open world.

The ability to go anywhere and not be constrained by loading zones/maps/etc is not only exhilarating and realistic, but it gives games a completely different feel. Arcanum's open world was not meant to be used, as it was almost entirely empty, and it was a zone based game just like Fallout 1/2.

You countered your own point here. Ultima/Ultima Underworld/Arx Fatalis/Divine Divinity/etc all had object interactivity, and plenty of games had decent turn based combat. Arbitrarily mix and matching those 2 different things, meh.

Just because this is arbitrary to you doesn't make it so. And you completely ignored the point about elemental interactivity, I assume because it doesn't matter to you for whatever reason.

You mention 2 things, both of which were done years before. So I guess your claim is that it's the combination of them that makes D:OS groundbreaking, but that's rather weak, my good man. And elemental interactivity was mostly a combat gimmick, not an actual well integrated part of gameplay. There was that early quest where you could douse a ship fire with a water spell. How many times did something like that happen through the game? Mostly it was just a repetitive thing to do in combat, pour oil, set fire, put down water, shock it, etc, etc.

.
It's a decent game (until the last part), but again, most things it did, other games did better years ago.

You're just wrong.

 

[turkishronin]

wow walking simulators so exciting and ground breaking. omg the exhilarating sense of walking for 15 minutes to get from point A to B

 

[Darth Canoli]

It's the best Fallout-like RPG since Fallout 1.

I overlooked this one, thought it was some 3D hiking simulator with fishing poles ...

Just looked at the steam page, seems alright but one info i'm missing, is it party based ? I'm not playing another single character fallout wanabee.

 

[JarlFrank]

It's the best Fallout-like RPG since Fallout 1.

I overlooked this one, thought it was some 3D hiking simulator with fishing poles ...

Just looked at the steam page, seems alright but one info i'm missing, is it party based ? I'm not playing another single character fallout wanabee.

Single char Fallout, but you can get up to 3 companions and can give basic commands in combat rather than them just doing their own thing. Which includes commands to "hold ground" (specify a certain tile on the map which they should move to and hold) and target a specific enemy, so it's as much control as you can possibly have without having direct control.

 

[Nano]

Witcher games are on a different level from Bloodlines when it comes to writing/cutscenes/dialogue. Not even remotely close.

Fuck you.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I guess it's better than nothing, looks like it plays like vanilla Fallout but reading comments on steam, it seems the translation is not very good, what do you think ?