Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Twitcher 3 is very far from the best written game ever

Glaucon

Prophet
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
1,000
Well I may have jumped the gun. I've only played the first 10 hours of the Witcher 3, maybe it gets better as it goes along. All this still holds for the second game.
 

Lambach

Arcane
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
12,730
Location
Belgrade, Removekebabland
There is such a thing as love--or generally positive human relations--in the witcher, but only between the outcasts of society.

Did any of you people criticizing TW3 for being "too edgy and grimdark" actually play the goddamn game? Every criticism you put forward reads like you have no idea what you're talking about and the only knowledge of the game you have is some overly-sensitive friend telling you about it. Are Cerys and Hjalmar, two loving (albeit competing) siblings outcasts of society? Are Dandelion and that blonde girlfriend of his (two widely known and celebrated artists) outcasts? Does the same apply for that peasant in White Orchard that asks you to get rid of the spirit that haunts the well because his daughter has a fever and he needs fresh water to save her life?

If TW3 is "too edgy" for you, you must be some of the most sheltered fucks on planet Earth.
 

Carrion

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
3,648
Location
Lost in Necropolis
Witcher is not an edgy grimdark setting. It portrays despair and hope without being biased towards either, which is rarely done well and for that alone I can appreciate it.
Yes. The whole discussion here is ridiculous, because both the books and the games seamlessly alternate between dark and light-hearted stuff all the time, and how people manage to miss this is beyond me. Arguably one of the strongest suites of the game's writing is its humour. Even Velen, which is specifically designed to be like a bleak, war-ravaged, depressing shithole, has a wide range of different tones, and the game switches between them effortlessly. On the other side of the coin there is Toussaint, which is the polar opposite of Velen: the nicest and least grimdark place on earth, where all knights are noble and all maidens fair (unrealistic medieval stereotypes again, goddammit!). But of course, that too would be a gross oversimpification and a misinterpretation.
 

Glaucon

Prophet
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
1,000
Again, you've missed the point entirely. Maybe the game is better than its first few hours indicated, but most of the criticisms here ring true for the Witcher series as a whole and grimdark settings in general. As for being "overly sensitive" or "sheltered", I think you misunderstand. I'm not offended by the game. My pure, white soul hasn't been tainted by vulgarity. I'm bored, and exasperated by the weak attempts at maturity/seriousness.
 

v1rus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,253
I cringe every time someone on Codex mentions writing. I remember a bloke who actually said Bunuel's stuff was amazingly written. :shitandpiss:
 

Neanderthal

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
3,626
Location
Granbretan
Witcher 1 weren't particularly grimdark if thy asks me, seemed more like a bawdy Chaucerish romp, wi a smatterin o folk tale superstition an popular mythology.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,824
Edgy TV Game of Thrones tier writing held up as a paragon of gaming writing. This is how you know everything is shit.
The well written parts are mostly the ones that have to do with sympathetic assholes and depictions of potato folklore. Has literally nothing to do with that shitshow you probably watch/read.
 

Ellef

Deplorable
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
3,506
Location
Shitposter's Island
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Well apparently Bloody Baron is an example of the great dialogue. He is TV character tier, I have played that far at least in the game.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,824
He is TV character tier
Jesus, i just read the most retarded thing said on the internet this week. Like what the fuck does this even mean? TV tier? Wheres this tier system? does being TV tier mean that you are better or worse than movie tier, what about theater tier? is there a netflix tier too?

Fucking christ brother, the retarded criticisms i have to endure reading from edgy codexers that cannot into being honest gets to be too much at times.
 

Ellef

Deplorable
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
3,506
Location
Shitposter's Island
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
He is TV character tier
Jesus, i just read the most retarded thing said on the internet this week. Like what the fuck does this even mean? TV tier? Wheres this tier system? does being TV tier mean that you are better or worse than movie tier, what about theater tier? is there a netflix tier too?

Fucking christ brother, the retarded criticisms i have to endure reading from edgy codexers that cannot into being honest gets to be too much at times.

I compared it to game of throne TV tier, i'm not really interested to sperg out further. I have tried and given up each of the Witchers about half way at most. I don't see the appeal in dogshit combat and serviceable writing, or having half the quests revolve around following tracks with magical Witcher powers. I want to like it but i cant
meh.png
 
Self-Ejected

Brayko

Self-Ejected
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
5,540
Location
United States of America
The writing is complete shit in this game, but it reminds me of George Martin, whom I hate so that may explain my bias. I literally think Dungeon Rats has better writing than Witcher 3.
 

Talby

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
5,507
Codex USB, 2014
Of course it is, but it's well above most AAA slop. Witcher 3 shits all over Skyrim or Dragon Age Inquisition for instance, if we're going to compare it to other open world action RPGs.
 

Carrion

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
3,648
Location
Lost in Necropolis
Witcher 1 weren't particularly grimdark if thy asks me
None of them are, really. There are individual parts and characters that could be described as that, but their overall mood is still pretty uplifting.

The funny thing is that there's a lot you could criticize about TW3's writing, some major issues regarding the setting, the plot and the characters. You could absolutely nitpick the game apart if you wanted to, and some of that fruit hangs pretty low. Instead people choose to spout out this "it's like GoT!" nonsense that misses the mark by a country mile and seriously makes me question their literacy. It's like comparing Bloodlines to Vampire Diaries and leaving it at that — not necessarily because the gap in quality, but because the similarities between the two are superficial at best.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,240
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The funny thing is that there's a lot you could criticize about TW3's writing, some major issues regarding the setting, the plot and the characters. You could absolutely nitpick the game apart if you wanted to, and some of that fruit hangs pretty low.
Do elaborate.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
15,899
Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
The funny thing is that there's a lot you could criticize about TW3's writing, some major issues regarding the setting, the plot and the characters. You could absolutely nitpick the game apart if you wanted to, and some of that fruit hangs pretty low.
Do elaborate.

For one, the nature of and threat posed by the Wild Hunt are not adequately presented to the player.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,824
I compared it to game of throne TV tier
Again, what the fuck does that even mean?
i'm not really interested to sperg out further.
So not only are you an ignorant retard, but a lazy one at that.
I have tried and given up each of the Witchers about half way at most.
Good for you, want a medal or something?
I don't see the appeal in dogshit combat
Git gud and its serviceable.
and serviceable writing
A lot of it is much better than serviceale you tasteless cunt.
or having half the quests revolve around following tracks with magical Witcher powers.
Fair enough, the novelty of it all wore out fast.
I want to like it but i cant
meh.png
Fair enough. Some shit isnt for some people, that stands to reason, absolutely nothing can catter to everyone.
 

Mark Richard

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
1,192
Blah blah Game of Thrones blah blah old RPGs blah blah Brendan Fraser. Monitoring this thread in an attempt to find an argument against the writing worth responding to has been a complete waste of my time. Put down the goblet of boxed wine occupying that gnarled monstrosity you call a hand, then drop the fashionable contextless references and write something meaningful!

Like The Witcher 3 did. :smug:
 
Last edited:

Carrion

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
3,648
Location
Lost in Necropolis
Do elaborate.
I've discussed this quite a lot in other threads, so I can't be arsed to write an essay about it, so here's a quick rundown of what I think are some of the game's biggest issues relating to its writing:

- the politics have gone through a serious downgrade after TW2
- the main villain is a non-character, as are his sidekicks
- the endgame is full of plot holes; the choices leading to it don't make a whole lot of sense either, and some of them are presented in a rather unclear manner (e.g. the decision on whether or not to let Ciri demolish Avallac'h's lab)
- some of the endings don't make all that much sense; Ciri becomes a witcher, even though she's not a mutant, cannot even drink witcher potions and will age as quickly as normal people, not to mention that it's possible that Emhyr will still be sitting on the throne — it's portrayed as the "good" ending, but it doesn't seem like a very good long-term solution
- Novigrad is full of plot threads and characters that don't really go anywhere and contribute little to the overall story arc
- Novigrad's main quest line is pretty convoluted overall and almost Hommlet-like with its "in order to do A you first need to do B, which requires doing C that is only possible after doing D" structure, plus it's probably the only part of the game where they're struggling a bit to figure out the proper tone for each part of the story
- characters like Caleb Menge or Whoreson Junior have no redeeming qualities about them and end up looking like cartoon villains as a result
- the main quest stops making sense after your first visit to Kaer Morhen; both of the subsequent major battles have major issues relating to them, like the basic logistics of the Kaer Morhen fight (e.g. Roche, Ves and Hjalmar being there despite the fact that Kaer Morhen is a secret location on the other side of the continent) and a number of late-game story elements and McGuffins that are quickly introduced and then instantly forgotten; it feels like they ran out of ideas on what to do with the plot after you finally reunite with Ciri, and the generic epic endgame stuff isn't on the same level with what came before it
- the Crones are ruined when they turn from terrifyingly powerful ancient beings to mere monsters that Ciri can take on all by herself
- Dijkstra similarly starts out as an excellent character that is somewhat ruined later in the game and made to look like a moron
- Roche, Ves and Radovid feel like shallow doppelgangers of their former selves
- there's some terrible fanservice that CDPR added after people complained about the romances not being good enough, but fortunately that's limited to just a few lines of dialogue in the second half of the game

When the writing is good, it is really good indeed. It's just that the main story is its weakest part by far, and in places the writing is a bit inconsistent.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,240
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Do elaborate.
I've discussed this quite a lot in other threads, so I can't be arsed to write an essay about it, so here's a quick rundown of what I think are some of the game's biggest issues relating to its writing:

- the politics have gone through a serious downgrade after TW2
- the main villain is a non-character, as are his sidekicks
- the endgame is full of plot holes; the choices leading to it don't make a whole lot of sense either, and some of them are presented in a rather unclear manner (e.g. the decision on whether or not to let Ciri demolish Avallac'h's lab)
- some of the endings don't make all that much sense; Ciri becomes a witcher, even though she's not a mutant, cannot even drink witcher potions and will age as quickly as normal people, not to mention that it's possible that Emhyr will still be sitting on the throne — it's portrayed as the "good" ending, but it doesn't seem like a very good long-term solution
- Novigrad is full of plot threads and characters that don't really go anywhere and contribute little to the overall story arc
- Novigrad's main quest line is pretty convoluted overall and almost Hommlet-like with its "in order to do A you first need to do B, which requires doing C that is only possible after doing D" structure, plus it's probably the only part of the game where they're struggling a bit to figure out the proper tone for each part of the story
- characters like Caleb Menge or Whoreson Junior have no redeeming qualities about them and end up looking like cartoon villains as a result
- the main quest stops making sense after your first visit to Kaer Morhen; both of the subsequent major battles have major issues relating to them, like the basic logistics of the Kaer Morhen fight (e.g. Roche, Ves and Hjalmar being there despite the fact that Kaer Morhen is a secret location on the other side of the continent) and a number of late-game story elements and McGuffins that are quickly introduced and then instantly forgotten; it feels like they ran out of ideas on what to do with the plot after you finally reunite with Ciri, and the generic epic endgame stuff isn't on the same level with what came before it
- the Crones are ruined when they turn from terrifyingly powerful ancient beings to mere monsters that Ciri can take on all by herself
- Dijkstra similarly starts out as an excellent character that is somewhat ruined later in the game and made to look like a moron
- Roche, Ves and Radovid feel like shallow doppelgangers of their former selves
- there's some terrible fanservice that CDPR added after people complained about the romances not being good enough, but fortunately that's limited to just a few lines of dialogue in the second half of the game

When the writing is good, it is really good indeed. It's just that the main story is its weakest part by far, and in places the writing is a bit inconsistent.
:bro:

Can't say I disagree either.
 

Ranarama

Learned
Joined
Dec 7, 2016
Messages
604
- the politics have gone through a serious downgrade after TW2
- the main villain is a non-character, as are his sidekicks
- the endgame is full of plot holes; the choices leading to it don't make a whole lot of sense either, and some of them are presented in a rather unclear manner (e.g. the decision on whether or not to let Ciri demolish Avallac'h's lab)
- some of the endings don't make all that much sense; Ciri becomes a witcher, even though she's not a mutant, cannot even drink witcher potions and will age as quickly as normal people, not to mention that it's possible that Emhyr will still be sitting on the throne — it's portrayed as the "good" ending, but it doesn't seem like a very good long-term solution
- Novigrad is full of plot threads and characters that don't really go anywhere and contribute little to the overall story arc
- Novigrad's main quest line is pretty convoluted overall and almost Hommlet-like with its "in order to do A you first need to do B, which requires doing C that is only possible after doing D" structure, plus it's probably the only part of the game where they're struggling a bit to figure out the proper tone for each part of the story
- characters like Caleb Menge or Whoreson Junior have no redeeming qualities about them and end up looking like cartoon villains as a result
- the main quest stops making sense after your first visit to Kaer Morhen; both of the subsequent major battles have major issues relating to them, like the basic logistics of the Kaer Morhen fight (e.g. Roche, Ves and Hjalmar being there despite the fact that Kaer Morhen is a secret location on the other side of the continent) and a number of late-game story elements and McGuffins that are quickly introduced and then instantly forgotten; it feels like they ran out of ideas on what to do with the plot after you finally reunite with Ciri, and the generic epic endgame stuff isn't on the same level with what came before it
- the Crones are ruined when they turn from terrifyingly powerful ancient beings to mere monsters that Ciri can take on all by herself
- Dijkstra similarly starts out as an excellent character that is somewhat ruined later in the game and made to look like a moron
- Roche, Ves and Radovid feel like shallow doppelgangers of their former selves
- there's some terrible fanservice that CDPR added after people complained about the romances not being good enough, but fortunately that's limited to just a few lines of dialogue in the second half of the game

Given that politics is war through other means, when kingdoms are actually at war and some have disappeared entirely, I find it entirely justifiable that politics is often absent. That's due to the plot being one of tracking down Ciri, rather than preventing war / saving a princess. Besides you get some intrigue with the clans on Skellige and the Spies major side quest.

The main villain doesn't need to be a well established character. Especially in this kind of story where the Villain doesn't get the same amount of presence as does the lore around the Wild Hunt and the other world from which they come. Just because some guy started a conflict doesn't mean he'll take a major part through out the entire story.

You appear to not understand that Witcher clearly means a profession as well as a group of mutants that fill that position. I guess that blew your mind somehow. She's going to kill monsters. For money. Is there something difficult to understand with this concept?

You also don't like that it's a sandbox game. Oh no. If you want linearity ignore everything and pursue the main quest line.

Some people have no redeeming qualities. You don't have to look far to find them. I don't think every Villain ever needs to be depicted petting a puppy once to make them a well defined character.

You're right about Kaer Morhen. When I invite people to a location I often neglect to give them the details.

Every villain looks weak and like a moron when they're defeated. I don't know why you are surprised.

And yes, characters than become minor players after being major will often feel like shadows of themselves. You've just described the difference between a minor and major character.

So yes, you've made me feel dirty defending Twitcher 3. Well done. Let's next time admit that even action popamole "RPG" can have decent story huh?
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom