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Twitcher 3 is very far from the best written game ever

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The ending of The Witcher 3 is the point where it loses me. It feels like the writers are adding new rules and rewriting definitions at the very end, contradicting what has been established earlier, and the sequence that plays out is not consistent with the Witcher world.
Given how little the White Frost is ever explained across the Witcher fiction I'm familiar with (all three games, the first two books and at least partial understanding on what happens in subsequent books), I'm not entirely certain how the endings are inconsistent or out of sorts with the rest of what's explained. While most of the Witcher takes place from a fairly grounded perspective, it's very much full of high fantasy concepts, from crazy magical powers to monsters to the whole concept of the spheres and so on and so forth. I've seen a significant amount of debate on this thread regarding the endings, but I haven't seen anything I'd consider concrete proof of inconsistencies in the endings. It's typically just that there was a sudden loss of suspension of disbelief, and while I'm certainly not claiming that your opinion is invalid, I would say that I don't understand it in the slightest. If you can accept sexy magical goat women who seduce people, a magical "force" that nerds can tap into and shape-shifting dragon people, I don't see why evil snow is that bizarre or how the portrayal of the White Frost is any different from previous games.
 

Carrion

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In the books there's a chapter where White Frost is explained as an inevitable event resulting from increasing axial tilt. While that's admittedly just one of the many attempts to explain the phenomenon, from what I remember nothing suggests that it can actually be stopped — even Ithlinne's Prophecy talks about the death and rebirth of the world. The games also establish that the White Frost is an actual phenomenon rather than a metaphor for war or something like that, and because of all this Ciri being able to suddenly stop it comes from so far out of left field that it becomes implausible. The vagueness of it all is both a good and a bad thing: it gives you room for interpretation to work around any possible contradictions you could come up with by simply dismissing any incompatible theory as false, but at the same time it feels like the writers didn't know how to end their story and chose to shift the responsibility of explaining it all to the player.
 

sser

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There's really nothing "sudden" about it if you go to Avallach's office and find out what he'd been doing for ages. The only mystery is what the White Frost actually is and how Ciri stopped it, but neither are important or need-to-know as far as Geralt's perspective is concerned.
 
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I was under the impression that as a Child of the Elder Blood Ciri was somehow tied into the White Frost, and as such her mysterious interactions with the White Frost are not particularly unexpected.
 

Storyfag

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TBH, the "scientific" explanation of the White Frost with the axial tilt of the planet causing polar caps to grow and reflect more and more sunlight away from the planet, thus making it colder and making the polar caps grow even more is... suspect to say the least. I think Sapkowski overdid it with this stuff.

However, the White Frost was always depicted as the doom of one particular world, and not of the multiverse. It definitely did not and should not threaten the world of the Aen Elle. In fact, part of their original motivation to even starting the Elder Blood breeding project was to rescue the Aen Seidhe stranded in their (Ciri and Geralt's) world from the coming doom (the other part of their motivation was to kickstart their conquest of the multiverse again). The mere idea that they would now want to take refuge in the doomed world of Ciri and Geralt and that the White Frost threatens their world is... a sad misinterpretation of the original story.
 

Carrion

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TBH, the "scientific" explanation of the White Frost with the axial tilt of the planet causing polar caps to grow and reflect more and more sunlight away from the planet, thus making it colder and making the polar caps grow even more is... suspect to say the least. I think Sapkowski overdid it with this stuff.
Yeah, it doesn't make much sense, and his "scientific" stuff generally feels a bit out of place. He injects modern elements into the universe quite often, but this particular aspect never worked for me. Still, based on the books it seems like it was intended to be the "canon" explanation for this stuff. I wonder if there are any interviews about this subject (although I doubt he'd give a satisfying answer to anyone anyway, being the way he is...)

However, the White Frost was always depicted as the doom of one particular world, and not of the multiverse.
I think it's depicted as being an inevitable end for all worlds, just that it's not some universal event that takes place everywhere at the same time. It's a bit hard to keep track of it because most of it is so vague (intentionally, I guess) and because there are so many different interpretations of it, both in the books and in the games.

I was under the impression that as a Child of the Elder Blood Ciri was somehow tied into the White Frost
It is plainly obvious the first time you hear Ithlinne's Prophecy. It's the head-to-head-combat-against-snow part that is the problem, even in the case that it was meant to be symbolic rather than something to be taken literally.

I would've preferred if they'd just dropped the part where the world is literally ending and made the last scene something more grounded and character-focused. The last scene is ultimately about the relationship between Geralt and Ciri, the daughter finally "leaving the nest" and starting to make her own decisions, with Geralt or anyone else no longer having control over her*. It could've simply been about Ciri going away for an unknown period of time to learn more about her powers or something like that, and I would've had no problems with it. Instead, they just had to put saving the world in there somewhere, as if she wasn't special enough already.

* Because of this I also consider the Empress ending to be a "better" ending than the witcher one, at least if you ignore the books and go with what the games tell you about Emhyr and Nilfgaard.
 

Frozen

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The white frost end does not need more explanation, it could be expanded in TW4 ( or whatever is called next game in the setting).
The thing that is in the books is more like "materialistic" explanation in contrast to prophecy that is metaphysical.
As I see it its a metaphor that everything ends, dies and is reborn in a new form.
Where they did screw up is that "best ending" for the world should be the only one where she "resets" the multiverses from dying out in ice but she dies in the process like a messianic sacrifice.
But when most biodrones are now your audience that was too risky from a monetary standpoint.

And I don't know who thinks this has the best story ever...it has some ok moments but is by far the weakest story of all Witcher games.
Not to mention that only relevant decision that carries over from other games is was Letho dead or alive. Beside that TW2 is totally ignored and from TW1 you only get Thaler cameo...and Shani.
 

Carrion

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Not to mention that only relevant decision that carries over from other games is was Letho dead or alive. Beside that TW2 is totally ignored and from TW1 you only get Thaler cameo...and Shani.
There are some other things that carry over, like whether Síle and Aryan are alive, and the Blue Stripes tattoo. As for TW1, there's also a letter from Alvin in the game, as well as mentions of Kalkstein and the blue-eyed vampire girl and her brother. Thaler's cameo is actually pretty bad because he could actually die in TW1, yet he'd be back in TW3 anyway.

Then again, changing a few lines of dialogue is pretty much the norm with these save imports, so it's not exactly a surprise that most of it is for flavor. Personally I would've liked to see the decisions made in TW2 affect the ending slides of TW3, seeing how you could make some drastic decisions that shaped the political landscape before shit hit the fan. It wouldn't have required that much work (a few lines of dialogue about the fate of Anais, Henselt etc. aside from the actual ending slides) but would've made a pretty big difference.
 

Immortal

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Twitcher 3 is very far from the best written game ever. Anyway, D:OS1's story is the way it is because they had 1 guy rewrite the entire thing 80% into development, we'll see how the cuck-squad handle it. Not holding my breath.


96beb1516f.png
 

musique classique

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Witcher 1 and 2 were a bit corny at times but they managed to capture the verbose I think is appropriate in a medieval world. Witcher 3 characters are way too modern in the way they talk and what they talk about, 'American' so to speak, by comparison and that doesn't feel convincing at all.

No amount of extra writers and colorful turns of sentences they came up with changed this, in my opinion. If you seek an appeal to a wider audience by scaling down the intensity of your content you lose all the interest I had. Poles might rank low in the hierarchy of Slavs, but the industrious Czechs at warhorse have been busy at work creating something that might just be exactly what a medieval enthusiast is looking forward to. Let's hope they deliver what the Witcher 3 should have been from the start. :bounce:
 

Popiel

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Witcher 1 and 2 were a bit corny at times but they managed to capture the verbose I think is appropriate in a medieval world. Witcher 3 characters are way too modern in the way they talk and what they talk about, 'American' so to speak, by comparison and that doesn't feel convincing at all.
And with that writers of The Witcher 3 returned to a way in which Sapkowski himself wrote his prose. There is nothing medieval about Witcher novellas, books or world as a whole, outside of clothing, architecture or things like that. It's 100% postmodern, founded on a basis of deconstructing traditional fairy tales and heroic archetypes. Witcher was never supposed to emulate medieval Europe in any way, no more than Game of Thrones.
 

Cadmus

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I've got to re-read the books since I can't actually remember much so I don't know if this is true or not.

I think that arguing the story is poorly explained or there's some plot holes is not very important. The game stands and falls imo based on the moment to moment gameplay which means reading the actual dialogs and here it's definitely readable and many of the lines sound natural to me.

I agree that Eredin is a retarded villain in that he just looks evil and does evil and there's nothing interesting about him whatsoever, he is a very straight bad guy without any additional characterization other than evil and evil-looking. I liked it much more when I had no idea wtf the wild hunt was.

When critiquing the game of this size I would think the actual written word should be in the spotlight because the story and the whole core of the game is to be very low-brow, straight up folklore and fantasy story, nobody's asking nobody what the measure of the man is or what can change his nature.

So I would say the dialogues are good in that they are:
- often funny
- often witty
- often sound natural
- they often serve to characterize the speaker in the way they are structured or written, this is not too often the case in other games

When they are missing all of the above they can be quite boring to read and sound just like a generic filler bullshit Skyrim dialogue.
 
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ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Kurwa 3 at least doesn't have retarded quest names like Skyrim. None of that shit like Purity of Revenge, Glory of the Dead etc.
 

Perkel

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Oh c'mon do I need to spell it out this much? Obviously that is what the saving his people part is about. The question is how?

Does he want to make a child with her like the whole Auberon thing before?

Does he want her for her placenta blood like Vilgefortz?

Does he simply want to break her mind and make her work for him?

Note he says "I'd planned to kill Zireael quickly, painlessly....But now...I shall not deny myself the pleasure." which future muddles things up.

All these questions and more are not answered.

From what i understand. Eredin first tried to be "nice" by delivering her to his king so he can fuck her up.
Since she escaped he stopped caring and tries to do it "hard" way.

Generally speaking wild hunt as the bad guy is the best they could really think imo and they were foreshadowed before in books but Sapkowski leave that without answer (2 times they tried to take her away in books).

Problem with TW3 is that people who didn't read books think Wild Hunt is some sort of bogeyman CPR pulled out of bullshit pocket. There is little exposition about them and frankly by most of the game they are nebulous force almost mythical or shit like that. It doesn't "fit" witcher universe with its grandiose.

Imo much better way for main story would be to focus on journey alone instead of fake race with time. Like trying to find Ciry without wildhunt involved. Finish it on low note instead of high note.

Which is imo why Bad ending is the best ending. It fits well Witcher type of setting and style of books. It doesn't "fullfil" you but rather makes you think instead.

It is a shame they didn't make it only ending.

Ciri's powers are complete bullshit, there is no foreshadowing for the rage moment. It is a "she can do this by the way!" moment.

Pavetta her mother did exact same thing under similar circumstances (knight trying to kill her boyfriend). Almost blown castle up. It is in first or second book i think.
 

Perkel

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It is a shame they didn't make it only ending.
Disagree with this bullshit over here. Rest is on point.

As i love different endings i feel for story reasons not everything should be given to player as choice.
This is one of those moments.

Everyone who plays strives to be THE best in everything. Get best gear, outcomes of sidequests etc.. They also expect by doing things in their view they should be rewarded with what they think is good thing like good ending.

In case of witcher 3 ending:

It would be much more interesting if you would get swallow ending if Ciri due to player actions in game learns that world is shit and playing hero is just child fantasy (which is something Geralt strongly believes). Thus making her more nihilistic and ultimately making her just not enter that tower. Focusing on NOW and PRESENT like people she know etc rather on nebulous FUTURE and END OF THE WORLD. Thus she spends rest of her life doing what the fuck she wants instead of being some greater being trying to save world.

On other hands actions n game that rewarded previously with swallow ending should get bad ending where she was pushed by Geralt to make her own choices and pushing her toward doom in fight with white frost.

In current form both endings are basically player egostroke and confusing lol i drunk with her thus bad ending !.

Which is why i think it would be better for it to have just one ending and bad one at that. From what i understand most of people either got swallow or empress and shitload of people didn't get swamp ending which is by far best of three and works way better for ending despite not being "nice"
 

2house2fly

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Imo much better way for main story would be to focus on journey alone instead of fake race with time. Like trying to find Ciry without wildhunt involved. Finish it on low note instead of high note.
Better for the game structure as well. All they'd have to do is start the game off with reports that Ciri's been sighted, then make her being pursued by the Wild Hunt something you find out later in the main quest. As it is the main quest is way too propulsive from beginning to end to the point that it's out of character to be doing side quests.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

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Ithlinne's Prophecy talks about the death and rebirth of the world
The Witches of Crookback Bog also had a prophecy. They foresaw Geralt seeing Ciri die. Obviously, she doesn't have to. They also failed to foresee their own deaths, saying that "one will die, but it shan't be one of us".

Prophecies and futurey stuff can come true, or they can be a future that could be. An "unrealized reality". A staple of sci fi/fantasy, though I'm not knowledgeable enough of Witcher lore to know if there is an in-universe precedent.

They can also be wrong. How exactly was the prophecy foretold? From the looks of it, dozens of worlds have/will have fallen to the white frost. Even having knowledge of what is going on in the multiverse and saying what is happening and what will likely happen in the future, isn't necessarily knowledge of what is absolutely to come.

Ithlinne may have just been Twitcher's version of a Climate Change activist. "Only the elder blood can stop greenhouse gases" etc :M
 
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Carrion

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Prophecies and futurey stuff can come true, or they can be a future that could be. An "unrealized reality". A staple of sci fi/fantasy, though I'm not knowledgeable enough of Witcher lore to know if there is an in-universe precedent.

They can also be wrong. How exactly was the prophecy foretold? From the looks of it, dozens of worlds have/will have fallen to the white frost. Even having knowledge of what is going on in the multiverse and saying what is happening and what will likely happen in the future, isn't necessarily knowledge of what is absolutely to come.
Oh, I don't mind prophecies being hogwash. In fact, I think that's exactly what works the best for that universe. What I dislike is that in the end they hinted at a rather literal interpretation of the prophecy (instead of treating it like it was symbolic or just plain untrue), but even then it wasn't quite consistent with what had been established earlier. At least they left it sufficiently vague, I guess.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

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Oh, I don't mind prophecies being hogwash. In fact, I think that's exactly what works the best for that universe. What I dislike is that in the end they hinted at a rather literal interpretation of the prophecy (instead of treating it like it was symbolic or just plain untrue), but even then it wasn't quite consistent with what had been established earlier. At least they left it sufficiently vague, I guess.
It's not that it's hogwash, it's that it is true, but not an unalterable future - which, frankly, sucks in video games.

So let's say a climate change wingnut is 100% correct about his science. Starts talking about how the water levels will rise and new york is "going to drown" or somesuch. Then we figure out a way around global warming. Does that make his "prophecy" untrue? No, it just means we avoided it.

In Witcher 3, we are told a prophecy and even see evidence of the world sliding toward it. It's even possible for us to fullfill it through negligence. But if we do things right, it doesn't happen and remains an "unrealized reality".
gs2fYcS.png

What I dislike is that in the end they hinted at a rather literal interpretation of the prophecy (instead of treating it like it was symbolic or just plain untrue), but even then it wasn't quite consistent with what had been established earlier
Well, Witcher 3 did quite a bit of retconning in general...
latest

like this guy growing arm skin, a pair of legs and suddenly capturing people alive instead of taking their souls for the hunt
...but they've been pretty consistent with the White Frost being an actual cataclysm involving snow. What exactly the cause of it is and how Ciri solves it with her blood powahs remains a mystery.

I get what you're saying tho. Not very imaginative , no (esp. at the end with Ciri trudging toward glowing snow), but vidya gonna vidya. :M
 

moon knight

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I don't see the White Frost as a problem, mainly because is not related to Geralt at all. It was a device to put the player in the position of a secondary character supporting the main character, Ciri. She's the one who has to "save the world", she is the character who face the classic hero's journey. Geralt is just a support character and
he can only influence Ciri to return in one ending, return and became princess in another ending, and to not return at all in the last one.

And actually, the fact that we do not understand the White Frost kinda helps to immerse the player in the role of Geralt, since he also has no idea of what that white frost thing really is.

Now I'm not saying everything worked smoothley, that part felt rushed as fuck and the shortened dialogue choices do not help to make clear decisions regarding Ciri (it's a cancer that must disappear from AAA RPGs), but...yeah, I wouldn't think too much about the White Frost.


Eredin is in fact the main problem. There are a lot of lines pronounced in the first trailers, that I believe there's been a huge stupid cut late into development. After the work made on Letho and Gaunter O'Dimm, Eredin is just offensively bad
 

2house2fly

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The Witches of Crookback Bog also had a prophecy. They foresaw Geralt seeing Ciri die. Obviously, she doesn't have to. They also failed to foresee their own deaths, saying that "one will die, but it shan't be one of us".
I dunno, they were kind of right- in two out of the three endings, one of them doesn't die.

Eredin is in fact the main problem. There are a lot of lines pronounced in the first trailers, that I believe there's been a huge stupid cut late into development. After the work made on Letho and Gaunter O'Dimm, Eredin is just offensively bad
One of the trailers that actually made me feel hype had Eredin saying "have some dignity, Geralt" and I thought it was a cool thing for the leader of an army of space ghosts to say. Presumably it was from the first game or something, like I think the lines in the "sword of destiny" trailer, or they cut some content for him and that was why he ended up with two lines, which were both bad.
 

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