Game News Underrail Dev Log #36: Version 0.1.13.0 Released + Development Roadmap

[Infinitron]

What the fuck are you talking about

Look, Fallout 1, Fallout 2 and Age of Decadence are single character turn-based games, duh.

Are you trying to make a joke, or what?

In all three of those games, allies may join you, and you can even control their behavior to some extent. In Underrail, you're always alone. There are no allies in combat unless independent NPC guards happen to be standing nearby when you fight rathounds or similar, which doesn't really qualify.

It's a pretty simple concept, and I'm not sure what you aren't getting.

That's right, which is why I clarified that what we were really talking about was

"single player-controlled character"

And no, the very limited amount of control you have over your companions' behavior in those games doesn't count.

Those games are NOT popularly considered "tactical full party control"-type games. They're considered single-character RPGs. You're the one who's being obtuse here.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Age of Decadence has no npc's joining the players group

This isn't true if we're talking about combat. You will frequently have allies.

Indeed, i meant as full companions.

 

[Amasius]

Though I don't understand why people see lockpicks as a problem, but not batteries. Lockpicks are cheap, don't weight much and you can buy a dozen or two of them at once. Not any worse than the batteries you need.

Exactly. But maybe some people have a problem planing ahead - you have to buy some lockpicks before you go exploring, while you usually find enough batteries, so that you don't have to buy those.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Though I don't understand why people see lockpicks as a problem, but not batteries. Lockpicks are cheap, don't weight much and you can buy a dozen or two of them at once. Not any worse than the batteries you need.

Exactly. But maybe some people have a problem planing ahead - you have to buy some lockpicks before you go exploring, while you usually find enough batteries, so that you don't have to buy those.

Why should they be disposable? The electronic one isnt, the multitool isnt.

 

[Blaine]

You're the one who's being obtuse here.

Not really. You quoted me and had a cow, but if you'd taken a moment to wonder why I purposely excluded games like Fallout, my intended context would have been fairly obvious. The term as you insist upon using it is insufficient to differentiate between games in which the player controls one character, but may have allies, and games in which the player controls one character, but may have no allies. It's a fundamental distinction, and regardless of terminology semantics, it's an important aspect of Underrail's combat system which, as I've said, is quite rare.

In other words, I don't really give a shit if I did misunderstand, because what was being described was described insufficiently.

It is true that Underrail can easily be measured against other turn-based games in which the player does have computer-controlled allies. Regardless of squabbling, my point is that achieving satisfying combat with no allies at all is an even more noteworthy achievement.

 

[Athelas]

I don't think having AI-controlled companions really changes anything about the feel of combat. You still only get to decide what a single character does. The companions are functionally the same as random NPC guards who decide to join the fight.

 

[Blaine]

Yeah? Well, I do. Too bad, fags.

I have to wonder also if you guys have even played any of these games. Equipping Marcus with a minigun definitely changes something in Fallout 2, and probably not for the better.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Having allies vs not having allies = big difference. The end.

P.S. epeli if you're the one helping out with grammar, punctuation and overall English writing...you really have your work cut out for you with these latest areas. It's funny. I've been helping VD off and on with this very thing for AoD and he's been very gracious...but every time I've approached Styg (tag, you're it) he can't even be arsed to thank me for the offer. That said, holy fuck does it need help. Don't get me wrong--the new areas and quests are fantastic and the gist of the dialogue is as well, but it definitely reads like a non-native English speaker who was typing in a hell of a hurry.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Having allies vs not having allies = big difference. The end.

P.S. epeli if you're the one helping out with grammar, punctuation and overall English writing...you really have your work cut out for you with these latest areas. It's funny. I've been helping VD off and on with this very thing for AoD and he's been very gracious...but every time I've approached Styg (tag, you're it) he can't even be arsed to thank me for the offer. That said, holy fuck does it need help.

Considering the level of writing on Underrail is amateur hour at best, i would think any help would be welcome, tho having to adjust workflow to integrate outside input is probably more hassle than its worth.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Considering the level of writing on Underrail is amateur hour at best, i would think any help would be welcome, tho having to adjust workflow to integrate outside input is probably more hassle than its worth.

I think the concept and basic meat of the story is absolute gold. And I think the humor and atmosphere of the dialogue is generally really great. It's just that all of it could be tweaked by somebody who has both a better vocabulary and command of the English language. Forgetting about typos, grammar and the bevy of unnecessary commas...there are just so many awkward moments that need help.

But yeah, I would have thought so as well...especially when offered for free.

*shrugs*

Oh well.

 

[Blaine]

P.S. epeli if you're the one helping out with grammar, punctuation and overall English writing...you really have your work cut out for you with these latest areas. It's funny. I've been helping VD off and on with this very thing for AoD and he's been very gracious...but every time I've approached Styg (tag, you're it) he can't even be arsed to thank me for the offer. That said, holy fuck does it need help. Don't get me wrong--the new areas and quests are fantastic and the gist of the dialogue is as well, but it definitely reads like a non-native English speaker who was typing in a hell of a hurry.

Styg
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9657

None of the staff made any grammar corrections to the Codex Re-Preview after I submitted it for publication.

Just sayin'. I don't want money, or a production credit, or anything of the sort—I just want Underrail to be the best game it can be.

Edit:

It must be stated that this game utilizes cooldowns on powerful utility items, special abilities, and some psi abilities, in order to prevent, for example, winning a combat by taking an Adrenaline Shot and spamming five Mark V frag grenades at a group of enemies, or surviving only by virtue [of] spamming health stims. Some Codexers hate cooldowns of any kind, but I believe they work well and are appropriately integrated here.

Infinitron, help.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Considering the level of writing on Underrail is amateur hour at best, i would think any help would be welcome, tho having to adjust workflow to integrate outside input is probably more hassle than its worth.

I think the concept and basic meat of the story is absolute gold. And I think the humor and atmosphere of the dialogue is generally really great. It's just that all of it could be tweaked by somebody who has both a better vocabulary and command of the English language. Forgetting about typos, grammar and the bevy of unnecessary commas...there are just so many awkward moments that need help.

But yeah, I would have thought so as well...especially when offered for free.

*shrugs*

Oh well.

Story is your standard post-apocalyptic shtick we have seen in countless other games, and the introduction to your character and situation at SGS could be handled much better, especially with the amount of computer terminals around, they could have opted for the Deus Ex HR approach of filling the world with back story resorting to emails. Take the short "movie" at Core city that finishes the first act of the game, those types of set pieces should have been more frequent during playtime, showing different characters and filling the player in on the machinations going on in the world at large.

But then again, gameplay is almost perfect as it is, and i love playing it for the combat and exploration alone, i would have just told the story in a completely different way.

 

[naossano]

Didn't play the game in the while, but it seemed to me at the time that dialogs lacked of a bit of personnality. There were quite straightforward. I assume it changed.

 

[Blaine]

I couldn't even think of better ways to convey any possibly awkward lines.

I'm excellent at rephrasing, but that doesn't really fit into the purview of a catch-all typo thread.

What I'd like is a way to examine the text directly within the game's file structure and suggest corrections that way, without needing to actually play. I'll take a look to see if the ability descriptions, dialogue, et al. are saved as plaintext, or if not, whether they can be converted to plaintext using a program with a frontend.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Didn't play the game in the while, but it seemed to me at the time that dialogs lacked of a bit of personnality. There were quite straightforward. I assume it changed.

No, this part has been vastly improved. It's simply grammar, punctuation and rephrasing...as has been suggested already. Unfortunately the time has passed where I actually have much time to help...though I do plan on going through, like I did with an older play-through, and taking notes.

 

[Zdzisiu]

Ho ho ho, another negative steam review!

"I really have to recommend that you DON'T buy this game.

I gave this game a fair trial. I've logged in around five hours as a stealthy psionic character. I've seen enough to understand the basic mechanics of this game. And I feel a little sorry for the developer, because I can tell that they have put in a lot of effort.

The beginning stages of this game are terribly bad. From what I've gathered, once you get past the first part of the game, that's when it gets good. I don't have the patience to play any further. It's not like I haven't had any fun at all, but the first couple levels of the game are tedious, overly complex, involve much backtracking (the game desperately needs fast travel), and are fiendishly difficult (not in a challenging way, more like a "you have a stick, I have an assault rifle" way).

The problem with this game is that most of the things wrong with it aren't bugs or unfinished areas: it's the core game itself. These things won't be fixed in an update. Here, I'll make a list:

Things wrong with core game
-Awful, awful dialogue (sounds like a ten-year old wrote it)
-Generic story that doesn't get you interested at all
-The level design
-Super slow pace

The game is basically an inferior version of Fallout. Your time and/or money would be better spent on another Fallout playthrough."

 

[naossano]

(the game desperately needs fast travel)

Fast travel would KILL a big part of the game concept IMO.

The concept of a huge maze of underground tunnels implie that travel can be long and dangerous, that travel should be decided with cautious, weighting the pros & cons.
A magical teleport crap like TES would utterly destroy that concept.

 

[epeli]

Hey, at least that review doesn't paint its writer as a complete moron from the first line on. Besides, it makes for a great Fallout 3 review:

I really have to recommend that you DON'T buy this game.

The problem with this game is that most of the things wrong with it aren't bugs or unfinished areas: it's the core game itself. These things won't be fixed in an update. Here, I'll make a list:

Things wrong with core game
-Awful, awful dialogue (sounds like a ten-year old wrote it)
-Generic story that doesn't get you interested at all
-The level design

The game is basically an inferior version of Fallout. Your time and/or money would be better spent on another Fallout playthrough."

It's perfect, isn't it?

Nevertheless, no matter how many times Styg makes the early game easier, someone will always find it "overly complex" and "fiendishly difficult" and then proceed to get angry at everything because he is not gud at gaems.
Meanwhile, skilled players can complete the early game even without taking a single point of damage. You just gotta love Underrail for that.


That reminds me, I watched some youtube LPs used some brain bleach and noticed one thing about Underrail's difficulty: the easy difficulty mode is actually detrimental for popamolers.

Even though the ezmode gives you double health and allows health hypo spamming, that really doesn't change the core combat fundamentals. It allows popamolers to survive for a while (barely) by relying on the venerable tactic of spamming healing consumables and generally Doing It Wrong, but that never teaches them how to play. Later on, they get absolutely wrecked by some combat encounters and they're left wondering why the game is so ridiculously hard. Normal difficulty on the other hand would make it clear that they are doing something wrong, which should make them question their tactics and try to think of other approaches. Or at least I hope so.

 

[sser]

Apparently half of the Codex has asked to help Styg's writing

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

writing should be last on the list when making games anyway

there i said it

 

[sser]

writing should be last on the list when making games anyway

there i said it

Writing is as important as your game makes it. If you make reading, listening, or watching shit a significant portion of your game, you should probably have good writing.

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

as someone who is currently mesmerised by grimrock I and II i politely take issue with such a blanket statement

i also said last on the list; not off the list altogether

 

[sser]

as someone who is currently mesmerised by grimrock I and II i politely take issue with such a blanket statement

i also said last on the list; not off the list altogether

I remember puzzles and a lot of polka dancing in Grimrock. I don't really remember reading, listening, and watching shit all that much.

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

exactly; a few clues, good level design, character progression and decent mechanics does the trick imo

story: youre shipwrecked on an island... have at it

 

[sser]

exactly; a few clues, good level design, character progression and decent mechanics does the trick imo

story: youre shipwrecked on an island... have at it

I don't think you're understanding my point at all.