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Underrail - Serbian pillow talk, turning Tricks, taking tips

Black Angel

Arcane
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Jun 23, 2016
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Wonderland
in this current play through I nearly smashed the computer as I could not open the doors to find Wyatt as I did in the earlier play through. Now, I found the drill part via a key card via the electronic gate, something I could not to before, and I still can't access Wyatt.
The key to Wyatt's door is on one of the muties on the map that's accessible from the Scrapper's HQ. It's weird we can't pick the lock instead.
 

Jazz_

Arcane
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,069
Location
Sea of Ubiquity
When you start shit in an area and then you exit, is there a fixed amount of time before the enemies go back to their original spots? I started shit in an area where I definitely bit off on more than I can chew, now if I go back to that area they are all waiting for me at the entrance and they just obliterate me right away.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,013
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
When you start shit in an area and then you exit, is there a fixed amount of time before the enemies go back to their original spots? I started shit in an area where I definitely bit off on more than I can chew, now if I go back to that area they are all waiting for me at the entrance and they just obliterate me right away.
They never do, as far as I know. That'll teach you to cheese :smug:
The best solution (other than to come back later, of course) is to enter from another direction, if possible. Most maps have multiple entrances.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Jersey for now
Does anyone know the minimum will requirement for each of the mysterious pillars?
So far I can only get vision from the Mysterious Pillar on Silent Isle. Do you need a higher minimum will than 7 or that plus a skill in a specific skill other than thought control?
 

Black Angel

Arcane
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Jun 23, 2016
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Wonderland
Does anyone know the minimum will requirement for each of the mysterious pillars?
So far I can only get vision from the Mysterious Pillar on Silent Isle. Do you need a higher minimum will than 7 or that plus a skill in a specific skill other than thought control?
I'm actually not sure, but I'd assume access to the pillars are exclusive to full-fledged PSI characters. Which means, you'd put all the extra stat points you gained every 4 levels into Will to increase it past 10.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Major_Blackhart don't know the numbers off the top of my head, they could go up to 10-11. Silent Isle is 7. There are only a handful of base ability checks above 10 in the whole game. Nothing requires absolute stat minmaxing the way Black Angel put it, not even close.

The checks are all for Will, except Thought Control (unmodified) check to learn Bilocation and the mainframe checks effective psi skills instead of Will.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
So, I am doing an unarmed playthrough. Thanks to everyone who suggested that I should, it's a lot of fun (and very-very powerful). However, one item that I have seen mentioned and can't seem to find is the Boxing Gloves (with the Dodge bonus). Where are they?

I am close to leaving for Deep Caverns and I still haven't seen them anywhere.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
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Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
So, I am doing an unarmed playthrough. Thanks to everyone who suggested that I should, it's a lot of fun (and very-very powerful). However, one item that I have seen mentioned and can't seem to find is the Boxing Gloves (with the Dodge bonus). Where are they?

I am close to leaving for Deep Caverns and I still haven't seen them anywhere.
No idea dude, I ran into like 2-3 unintentionally just by playing. Weird that you haven't found them yet. You searching everything?
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,278
A lot of useful items are randomized, but I think boxing gloves have a guaranteed pair in the arena lockers.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
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Wonderland
Trashos if I'm not mistaken,
a pair of Boxing Gloves can actually be found in Hecate Research Center or whatever it's called.
Edit: Never mind, it's not in Hecate. I actually forgot where it is, but from my vague recalling of where I found it, it should be in one of the dungeons that had bedroom chambers, and it's in one of the lockers. The dungeon is filled with Crawlers, and that's the only thing I can remember about it for sure.
 
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Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
The Arena has 3 rooms next to Lanista, but I can only enter the north one. The gloves are not there. There is a dude standing outside the 2 other rooms, and I can't enter them even with exceptional stealth. The gloves are also not in the boxer's apartment in Core City.

There are some places I haven't been to, yet. But to give you a measure of my progress, I am nearing level 20 with the Oddity system (Soon I will have 10 attacks/round, bwahahaha! Ahem). If the gloves are strictly randomized, then I guess the game is laughing at me. I don't really need them, I am just pissed that I haven't found them in my unarmed playthrough.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
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Jun 23, 2016
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Wonderland
If the gloves are strictly randomized, then I guess the game is laughing at me. I don't really need them, I am just pissed that I haven't found them in my unarmed playthrough.
Don't worry man, the boxing gloves are definitely not randomized. Finished the game twice, first back in 2016 and second in 2017, both playthrough I got the gloves right at the place I described above, hence why I could remember them being there. Calling epeli to help this poor soul.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Trashos there should be Boxing Gloves somewhere in...
- Abandoned Warehouse, first floor
- Hecate Research Outpost, first floor (Black Angel got it right on the first try)
- Fort Apogee barracks
- Caerus Residential, first floor
- They appear as random loot: from level 5 onwards, under generic "military" items, but they're pretty rare. (Side note - would anyone care if I explained how the random loot table works?)
- Becket also sells them if you join Free Drones.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Epeli, I have been to the Abandoned Warehouse (the one near Rail Crossing, right?), searched both floors, but didn't find anything.

Yeah, that one. I don't remember exactly where it is, I just quickly searched some files for direct references to the item. A vague memory says it might be in the hidden vent that requires perception to find.

Okay so, first of all every item in the random loot table has a minimum level that limits when it can start appearing. Items with predefined variations (e.g. frag grenades, Mk I to V) also have a max level, after which they're replaced with higher level variant. Items with dynamic variations (anything craftable with variable quality components) are generated by their respective blueprint/generator just like you would craft it. I'm not going to look into how components are selected for random generated items, that's a whole nother topic.

The random loot table is divided into thematic categories. Items can, and most do, appear in multiple categories. Every entry in each category has min/max amounts and a rarity factor that determines how often it appears in loot of that category. Containers in the game world can contain a mix of these and some static items, e.g. there could be a box that always has 3 psi hypos, 1 random psionic mentor, 0-3 random entries from psi category. I think these same random categories are also used for store inventories, as only few items in shops have static definitions.

The categories:
* Tech (everything from batteries to tech components and electronic gadgets)
* Medical (all)
* Medical (conventional)
* Medical (drugs)
* Firearms
* Weapons
* Military (almost anything vaguely combat-related plus relevant crafting stuff)
* Psi
* Blueprints
* Explosives
* Common
* Armors
* Utility Devices (misc. tools like flares, crowbars, lighters, lockpicks, haxxors and some other stuff)
* Food
* Energy Cells
* Ammo
* Grenades
* Traps
* Firearm Ammo (common)
* Firearm Ammo (special)
* Throwing Knives
* Psionic Mentors
* Blueprints (medical, all)
* Blueprints (medical, conventional)
* Blueprints (medical, drugs)
* Blueprints (military)
* Blueprints (electronic utility)
* Components (electronic)
* Components (mechanic)
* Components (simple)
* Components (natural)
* Components (military)
* Components (energy core)
* Components (gun barrel)
* Components (firearms)
* Components (psionic)
* Components (medical)
* Components (energy shield)
* Components (inorganic chemistry)
* Trash
* Vehicle Parts (engine)
* Vehicle Parts (battery)
* Vehicle Parts (jetski suspension)

For example, the boxing gloves item has a minimum level of 5 (so they can appear basically anywhere from mushroom cove onwards), but it only appears in the gigantic "military" category of roughly 250 items and has a rarity factor of 20. Very roughly put, normal weapons and ammo in this category have rarity factors around 1-5, components 5-15, blueprints 15-20. So it is oddly rare, maybe more so than it should be.
 
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Black Angel

Arcane
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Jun 23, 2016
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Location
Wonderland
- Hecate Research Outpost, first floor (Black Angel got it right on the first try)
Wait, what?! Hold the phone, gotta check up on it for a bit....

It is!

Look at this, from the wiki:
Hro1.png
There's a door to the left of the sliding door near the entrance, that should be the place I described, bedrooms to the right of that door and the kitchen to the left, the place is filled with Crawlers and, in one of the lockers in the bedroom, a pair of boxing gloves. Go get 'em Trashos! If it's not there..... well, epeli already spilled the beans.

Also, a little trick for unarmed characters that I learned from Wildan in his post at Underrail forum, and I quote:
Regarding your spiked build, I think it doesn't pay off to lose Lightning Punches. -2 AP is too good. I'd rather invest one more point into INT, take Armor Sloping and Nimble to qualify for LP and go the STR route.

Since Combo was nerfed I was neglecting it but I got a new idea for a build around that feat which abuses the Combo mechanics:
Quote
If you land three consecutive damage dealing unarmed or fist weapon attacks against a single target in a single turn, the third attack will deal 100% bonus damage and have 20% chance to stun the target for 1 turn.


Now this is the idea: On a STR based build metal gloves and the Power Fist give most bang for the buck because of huge STR bonus (it's even better then for sledgehammers), but metal gloves are slow and this penalizes all mechanics that need punch spamming (Combo, Cheap Shots, Wrestling, Taste for Blood, Bone Breaker).
So what if one would wield metal gloves in one slot and bare fists in the other and make best of both paths? Let's say you take 10 DEX (which is a sweetspot for this build) then together with Lightning Punches and tabbis you'll hit for 5 AP with bare fists and 10 AP with the metal gloves. As you can see those numbers fit so well withing any AP pool.

With 50 AP you have these possibilities:
a.) 10 times with the bare fists which is too weak.
b.) 5 times with metal gloves which is good damage but too few hits.
c.) 4 times with bare fists and 3 times with metal gloves which gives best damage with most hits: 5+5+10+5+5+10+10=50

The combo would look like this: Two hits with bare fists and third always with the metal gloves. This way you make sure that on every third hit you get 100% bonus weapon damage on the strong gloves (besides the stun chance), so by replacing first metal glove punch with two regular hits you don't lose any damage. You actually gain alot because those two bare fist hits can be seen as free damage which is actually pretty good with 15-16 STR, Force Emission and Corporal Projection (Telekinetic damage +5% for each point of strength above 5). 7 vs 5 hits also makes a better chance to proc the buffs/debuffs/abilities I mentioned above. Even Bone Breaker becomes worthwhile because there is a pretty good chance for it to proc on one or both hits before metal gloves. VS extremly tough opponents like some bosses you could focus on buff debuf first: 8 hits with bare fists and final hit with metal (Combo damage applies) you're very likely to score good TfB, Wrestling, Bone Breaker, stun buffs/debuffs.
Full post here
 

Piotrovitz

Savant
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Messages
805
Location
Paris, Texas
Posted this in the general incline thread, but it got buried under other stuff, so here we go again.

I'm doing my first blind playthrough with SMG/grenades/stealth build with high DEX and hit and run tactics - works like a charm and so far (lvl 22, hard diff) the only tough fight requiring multiple reloads was Carnifex.
Makes me think of starting again on dominating.

Couple of questions:

1. I plan to roll with 7.62 and 8.6 duo (figured out it'd be most ammo-effective) - what is the best combo, Jag and Steel Cat? Or two Steel Cats with different barrels? Is + crit % of steel cal worth the lower AP cost of Jag burst?
Right now I'm rolling with 8.6 Steel Cat with smart module/rapid reloader + the unique 9mm K&H. So far they're getting job done.

2. Are 5mm SMGs worth bothering? Beside shock bullets and silencer mod there's not much to them. Not even sure if silencer works properly - during the quest in Junkyard where I had to pop the guy in the casino I just whacked him in the hallway with burst from steelcat and none of the guards seemed to be alerted, though they were just around the corner.

3. Are other special bullets for SMGs worth bothering? So far, W2C ones get shit done in any tougher fights.

4. Low DT mobs go down pretty fast eating normal rounds, so what's the point of JHP bullets?

5. Are dmg dealing grenades useful late game? Not sure whether to invest heavily into chemistry - right now I'm rolling with mk IV ones, and even without three pointer feat they were often life savers.

6. Is it worth to invest heavily into biology with this build, if at all? I have dozens of health hypos/adrenaline shots/antidotes etc - all looted. I'm already overflowing with money, so getting what's needed from vendors doesn't seem to be a problem.

7. Is economy broken late game, or is there some end game gear/crafting stuff you can only buy with shitload of money? Basically - should I hoard shit?
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Jersey for now
I can tell you that chemistry and biology add aLOT to the game experience. Usually you have enough points to invest in all the crafting skills anyway
 
Joined
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Messages
584
I've never really played an SMG build so I can't comment on the specifics there.
Mk IV grenades are good enough, there's no reason to get enough chemistry for mk V ones unless you have a lot of spare skill points.
Biology is probably not necessary for your build. Most of the good drugs are defensive or healing, so a high mobility/evasion build (I assume that's what you're going with) won't benefit that much. 35 biology lets you make jumping beans which give you +25% dodge/evasion and 10 mp for 4 turns. 50 biology lets you make focus stims that give you +15% crit chance for 10 turns. You can decide if you want those.
You can spend huge amounts of money on super steel once you unlock the ability to buy it. It costs a lot, and has randomly generated quality so you might need to buy multiple to get a good quality one.
 

Piotrovitz

Savant
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Dec 21, 2017
Messages
805
Location
Paris, Texas
Thanks for the tips Trilarian sir - jumping beans seem beneficial for this build, so I'll probably drop those 35 points in bio.

One more question - for high mobility dodge/evasion build, what's better in the end - tactical vests or infused leathers?
I just took the ballistics feat and am wondering if it was a good idea, if late game I'm about to run in leathers (already have high quality ancient rathound leathers from King's pack).

Also, I 've restarted on dominating and gave up during quest with Newton. There was no way to deal with packs of 3-4 beetles in each room with 5mm SMG, except maybe luring them one by one and closing the doors.
I'm back on hard again - maybe I just suck, maybe some glass 3 CON builds are not viable here, maybe you have to accept using certain exploits and get used to savescumming. Maybe all of the above.
Hard is challenging enough, call me lame, but I'll just settle for it on my first run.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
Thanks for the tips Trilarian sir - jumping beans seem beneficial for this build, so I'll probably drop those 35 points in bio.

One more question - for high mobility dodge/evasion build, what's better in the end - tactical vests or infused leathers?
I just took the ballistics feat and am wondering if it was a good idea, if late game I'm about to run in leathers (already have high quality ancient rathound leathers from King's pack).

Also, I 've restarted on dominating and gave up during quest with Newton. There was no way to deal with packs of 3-4 beetles in each room with 5mm SMG, except maybe luring them one by one and closing the doors.
I'm back on hard again - maybe I just suck, maybe some glass 3 CON builds are not viable here, maybe you have to accept using certain exploits and get used to savescumming. Maybe all of the above.
Hard is challenging enough, call me lame, but I'll just settle for it on my first run.

Ballistics is a pretty bad feat even if you wants vests, does too little IMO. You will be bullet immune without it with high Q stuff. Usually if there aren't any bullets leather is better, especially since the infused stuff gives mad bonuses - carry both and put on tactical if needed.

Hard is pretty hard itself, since SMG builds are on the weaker side. Don't sweat it.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Piotrovitz
1. Whichever you prefer. There isn't one true option here, plenty of valid choices. I usually go with 5mm silenced one and a 8.6mm hard hitter. (Burst) AP cost is often the most important factor when choosing SMGs or many other weapons. The choice of crafting enhancements is currently, unfortunately, a little boring since smart modules are god-tier and reign over anything else. The secondary slot is usually a rapid reloader, if not an accuracy mod in early game.

2. I find that 5mm SMGs have enough damage with Expertise after the early levels. Silent weapons are a huge advantage if you know how to get the best out of them. Making lots of noise can turn small manageable fights into fighting entire zone of enemies at once. Assassinating Elwood is a different matter, that quest is years older than the noise system.

3. W2C, generally speaking, is the best ammo. Special bullets usually aren't worth the effort required to make enough of them for automatic weapons., but incendiary bullets can be nice for the extra crowd control.

4. JHP kills soft targets even faster. But ammo availability is more important for automatic weapons, so...

5. Yes. Mk IVs are a a common place to stop since the next tier has double requirements. Incendiaries are also extremely useful, more tactical applications than with explosives.

6. Biology is always useful but never necessary. You can't buy any of the good drugs.

7. Super steel is expensive, so is decorating your house if you're into that kind of thing. Other than that you don't have to hoard much.

Infused siphoner leather is THE armor suit if you want to focus heavily on dodge/evasion and other infused leathers have great choices too. Rathound for crit, pig for hp/resists, hopper for speed, ancient rathound for damage reduction. But tactical vests aren't bad either. I'm fond of using biohazard vest on ranged builds with medium mobility/dodge/evasion. It's far from optimal choice but I don't like carrying a gas mask swap on builds that depend on perception.

Ballistics feat is somewhat underrated. Early on it's excellent, but becomes worse and worse as you grow in levels. However depending on your shield, you might find that the extra DT stays relevant throughout the game. It's just in the area where it barely nullifies or greatly lowers the part of damage that penetrates your shield, more than the meager resist of tac vests would. If you like tactical vests and can affort taking the feat before crafting your first armor, it's not a bad choice. It's obviously weaker on riot gear and metal armor vests, which don't get the +200% (triple!) threshold bonus of tac vests.

Hard is definitely challenging enough for a new player, DOMINATING is meant for veteran players. You don't need savescumming nor exploits, but never even try to fight fair in Underrail. You need all the tricks in the book. At that point no build can deal with the beetles by just marching in and shooting them.

Parabalus
I think SMG builds are underrated. They're about as powerful as assault rifles, have more control over where to apply their damage (more bursts, less overkill per burst), have no crippling weakness, and are also better suited for high mobility builds which are just plain more fun than going for max resist tin can.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
584
One more question - for high mobility dodge/evasion build, what's better in the end - tactical vests or infused leathers?
I like leather better for high mobility. Vests are good against bullets but pretty shit against everything else if you're not using extra plates, and those have too much of an armour penalty for a light build. Infused siphoner or pig leathers give you nice bonuses that work all the time. On that note, don't use ancient rathound. Infused leather has diminishing returns, so it doesn't actually end up much higher quality than the other types, and its bonuses aren't that good. It also has 20% armour penalty so you can't hit 0% with nimble, unlike siphoner or pig.
 

Piotrovitz

Savant
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Messages
805
Location
Paris, Texas
Awesome feedback, thanks comrades :M

Ballistics was a mistake, should've taken something that would be beneficial for this build in the long run, i.e suppresive fire or opportunist. I did have a feeling that it would be less and less useful, but took it anyway, as I thought I'll roll in tac vests through the whole game. Probably I will, even if just for RPing - can't imagine spec ops/commando type running around in some dog or pig leather.

Special bullets - I thought that W2C is everything you'll ever need, but running with unique K&H SMG with 9mm acid bullets sounds fun and should add some extra flavor.

Question on level cap - how far into the game you'll hit it, playing on classic mode with semi-completionist approach?
If it's somewhere early, like 75% far, I think I'll skip some of the optional content, like burrowers nest in GMS etc.

I think SMG builds are underrated. They're about as powerful as assault rifles, have more control over where to apply their damage (more bursts, less overkill per burst), have no crippling weakness, and are also better suited for high mobility builds which are just plain more fun than going for max resist tin can.
This exactly. Playing on hard on my first playthrough with SMG build, I find everything entertainingly challenging - with lots of positioning, hit-and-run tactics, heavy usage of grenades etc, every fight is just so damn fun.
 

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