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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
Fuck... I got Rapid Fire on my Energy Pistols char and then realized it only works with guns that shoot bullets. I was really hoping to use it with my plasma pistol.
 

oneself

Arcane
Shitposter
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
9,502
Location
A minority-white, multicultural hellscape
Yeah, ARs require 6. And if I know I'll continue to use ARs, I'll bump STR up the next time, right now I can use the Regalia. I suspected that SMGs would be the poor man's AR.

Not quite. SMG gets reduced AP cost as your DEX scales up and you get feats such as commando and spec ops which will allow you to burst much more frequently than ARs.
 

Cortex_Reaver

Novice
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
29
Time is split into smaller discrete units to allow more precise control over AP costs. So the AP per turn number is larger. And I think that turns in Underrail represent a slightly longer time period than they did in Fallout. (I don't really remember how the TB/RT conversion worked in Fallout Tactics.)

Time is split into smaller discrete units to allow more precise control over AP costs. So the AP per turn number is larger. And I think that turns in Underrail represent a slightly longer time period than they did in Fallout. (I don't really remember how the TB/RT conversion worked in Fallout Tactics.)

Underrail isn't balanced more like Fallout because it isn't Fallout. Besides, Fallout also had gimmick builds that could perform over 10 attacks per turn. :roll:

Dude, I'm just using Fallout as an example of turn length. Saying "Underrail is not Fallout" is complete fanboy nonsense. I did not follow the development of the game and was wondering why Styg went with longer turns. Have there been versions with shorter turns? Even longer turns? How many iterations of the turn based system were there?
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
Eyestabber and others, I went with a mostly Sniper Rifle build in the early stages, but how should I be working out my second weapon?

In other words, I began with a 5/7/7/3/10/3/5, boosted DEX and INT, and I've been focusing on stealth/sniping - but when battle starts you want to be able to switch to another weapon for versatility. I've experimented with whatever pistols, SMGs and ARs (rathound regalia = 6STR) I can find, all to decent-ish effort, and I've just crafted an electroshock pistol that I've toyed around with. It's hard to know what to plan for because I'm not sure what kind of chemical/energy weapons I can get (and I didn't even know at the start those are pistol only). I also haven't been getting any burst-oriented feats.

Is it worthwhile to continue bumping electricity and/or chem and develop energy/chem pistols, or is it better to latch on to SMGs and/or ARs for bursting when shit hits the fan?

Currently level ~13 in Core City, Dragunov if I want 2 sniper shots per turn but I also have a high damage sniper and high crit chance sniper to rotate. I have ~75 mechanics, ~50 elec/tailoring, ~25 chem/bio, but it's hard to know which ones to jack up. Hell, focus stim requires 50 bio right? I've never even seen one.

Well, you probably realised by now that the sniper rifle is great for alpha striking, but a terrible weapon for sustained engagement. The obvious choice is the AR since it's just one extra STR point away from the 5 required by sniper rifles. Sniper/AR have great synergy since they rely on roughly the same things. Pistols are good since you have decent/high dexterity. Because their per-shot damage is high and their AP cost is low, they might just be the perfect tool for finishing off an enemy wounded by a regular sniper shot. SMGs...NO. I only used SMGs in the alpha and I remember disliking them very much. Lowest per shot damage in the game = DT shuts you down hard. You'll end up burning tons of AP bullets just to stay relevant. Energy pistols might be a very interesting choice since their high AP costs means you won't be able to fire them more than twice anyway, so the difference between mid and high dex is none whatsoever.

Pistols? Per shot damage is high? AP low? In what game is this? Pistols are almost completely shit (and this is speaking as someone who struggled with them a lot over the game), AP requirements are just absurd (25 AP to fire a 9mm) and single shot damage is only slightly higher than an SMG. It's the ultimate gimped trash weapon.

Compare a hammerer to a steel cat:

7.62mm Hammerer
Pistol
This is a 7.62mm caliber Hammerer type handgun.
Damage: 10-31 (Mechanical)
Impact speed: Medium
Base action points: 20 AP
Range: 10 (optimal: 7)
Critical chance: 7%
Critical damage bonus: 125%
Ammo type: 7.62mm rounds
Magazine capacity: 16
Use: Unload all the ammo from the weapon.
(AP: 5)
Durability: 690 / 690 (mechanical)
Can be disassembled.
Weight: 1.75
Value: 3900

7.62mm Steel Cat
SMG
This is 7.62mm caliber Steel Cat type submachine gun.
Damage: 8-24 (Mechanical)
Impact speed: Medium
Base action points: 13 AP
Range: 9 (optimal: 6)
Critical chance: 5%
Critical damage bonus: 120%
Minimal weapon skill: 40
Ammo type: 7.62mm rounds
Magazine capacity: 25
Use: Unload all the ammo from the weapon.
(AP: 5)
Durability: 690 / 690 (mechanical)
Can be disassembled.
Weight: 2.50
Value: 4050

The steel cat does about 20% less damage, but requires 35% less AP, it can burst fire, and doesn't require a special perk just to slightly lower AP costs. Also, more attacks means more flexibility during your turn. The key factor for my 10 dex pistolier is that even with gunslinger, I get down to 14 AP, which means I can only attack thrice in a turn. Whereas with the Steel Cat, I can attack 5 times since I get it down to 10 AP, and this is without any special perks required. Hence my character which is entirely built for pistols is using an SMG as his primary weapon. In one turn, I can kneecap to trigger opportunist, then aimed shot, rapid fire, point shot, and then get off another regular attack. It's extremely good. I never even use the bursts because I didn't take the burst feats or craft my weapon for bursting.

Ironically, the only pistol I have found that is really worth it is the one with the highest AP cost, the .44 hammerer uberweapon. This is me doing a one shot overkill to Balor:

ossrbq.jpg


1082 damage in one attack! So I switch between the .44 hammerer and the 7.62 steel cat. I was just lucky that all the special attacks I picked for pistols also work with SMGs. I could have actually done without gunslinger because even without it, I'd still be able to get in two attacks with the .44 per turn.

I made a mistake with my build though, because I didn't get steadfast aim which increases pistol critical chance (requires STR 6). I'm pumping STR though so I'll be able to take it as my last feat, but my dexterity will unfortunately remain at 10. It seems to me that pistols are entirely designed and balanced around this single perk.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Dude, I'm just using Fallout as an example of turn length. Saying "Underrail is not Fallout" is complete fanboy nonsense. I did not follow the development of the game and was wondering why Styg went with longer turns. Have there been versions with shorter turns? Even longer turns? How many iterations of the turn based system were there?

You literally asked why it isn't more like Fallout and I sincerely answered that...

But let me try to give a better answer: As I said, Underrail's turns are split into smaller time units, thus 1 AP does less but you get more AP per turn. I wouldn't say that there's a big difference in turn length and/or number of actions per turn between Underrail and Fallout or other TB CRPGs. But Underrail does have some builds that can spam a lot of weak attacks during a single turn and on the other hand some strong attacks take all of your AP. The main thing is that there's much more variety in Underrail, but it might also have longer turns overall.

The core of the turn-based system has been mostly unchanged for as long as it has existed. All characters have 50 AP, armor penalty and many character traits adjust MP, moving through one full tile takes 10 MP/AP, one turn roughly equals 5 seconds and many mechanics still work in both RT and TB mode.

From player character perspective, the options for fast characters have expanded greatly during development. Mostly through feats and equipment that boost movement points or otherwise reward high agility and also through dexterity AP cost reduction which was added fairly early in the alpha. Plus some weapon enhancements that lower AP costs.

As a result of the above, some characters in Underrail attack very fast and have loads of movement points on top of that. But on the other hand, metal armor and heavy weapons results in one-two big attacks plus a bit of movement per turn. Underrail's system allows for more variation between different characters.

To reiterate: I don't think Underrail's turns are much longer, but there's more variation in character speeds. Even though everyone has the same 50 AP.
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
20,856
Location
Привислинский край
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Yes Hammer 44 with Smart modules on gun and googles for added 80% damage at critical is beast but all other pistols are trash good only if this was game like Fallout/Wasteland where you will RP officer and have 3 other lads/gals with heavier weapons to cover your arse; go with SMG if high DEX build or AR if going with Metal armor instead. Sniper is good but you need back up weapon again SMG or AR works best and Crossbow is godlike with Stealth/Trapper build... but you obviously will need to craft special bolts and traps like crazy and choose your battles carefully... One question Comrades what is better for AR Smart module or Quick Fire Gadget? Also can you hire someone to polish your barrel clean and work in your Core City residence? Anything its useful for aside from spare weapons and part magazine? And where to get those damn workshops for basement you can't buy?
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Have you guys seen this yet? A good chance to get direct answers from Styg without the layer of fanboy cultists as middlemen!

:desu:
 

Ein Axt

Educated
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Messages
95
I'm about to do my second release version playthrough.

As I've never really used energy weapons before I was thinking of going plasma/laser build with medium armor and no stealth on hard this time. It then struck me that why would I ever want to do plasma when .44(with normal, AP, or explosive ammo) is a lot better.

Anyone with an energy character? How is it? Can this build even go through DC?
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
One small balance complaint I have is that Psychosis increases PSI costs of non-damaging abilities by 20% as well, making them vastly inferior to a PSI user with Tranquility. Should be changed imho.
 

Unbeliever

Learned
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
120
Location
Revelstone
Have you guys seen this yet? A good chance to get direct answers from Styg without the layer of fanboy cultists as middlemen!

:desu:



We should kidnap men our God before Matt Chat begins. Unworthy eyes and ears should not get a chance to see picture and hear words of the Inclinebringer.
 

MrBuzzKill

Arcane
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
651
Enjoying this game so far but I do have one criticism to make.
IT WAS FUCKING 86 PERCENT TO HIT YOU FUCKING COCK SUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!!!!!
 

Mr. Pink

Travelling Gourmand, Crab Specialist
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
3,042
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Things I would like to see in the inevitable underrail expansion/sequel

1. More combat only and Psi only quests. The current game is skewed in favor of stealth roles, just because of all the shortcuts available to them. Many quests are a bitch to complete as a combat specialist. Mind control should be used in dialogue checks too.

2. Intimidation should scale from strength as well as willpower, and spikes on your armor should raise your intimidation.

3. The strength threshold for crowbars should be lowered to 5, or more flimsy vent grates should be added.

4. Some more melee weapons would be nice. A shock lance that can attack two tiles away would be cool. Shotguns could be an interesting option as a sidearm for characters that did not pump perception.

5. SGS credits should be used by default in places that take it.

6. Merchants with high quality goods that travel from zone to zone, junk buyers that will buy anything at 30% it's value.

7. Armor changing character appearance.

8. Cover system. Standing behind a box should reduce your chances of being hit by ranged attacks from that direction. :troll:
 

Fenix

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
6,458
Location
Russia atchoum!
Fuck... I got Rapid Fire on my Energy Pistols char and then realized it only works with guns that shoot bullets. I was really hoping to use it with my plasma pistol.
In that case it would be TOO good. what do you want - obliterate Carnifex guy in one or even half of the turn? )

Pistols? Per shot damage is high? AP low? In what game is this?
The most distorted vision of pistols I have seen ITT.
Dude you are so wrong...

It then struck me that why would I ever want to do plasma when .44(with normal, AP, or explosive ammo) is a lot better.
Critpower? Electro-Stygsend-pistol?
 
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Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Enjoying this game so far but I do have one criticism to make.
IT WAS FUCKING 86 PERCENT TO HIT YOU FUCKING COCK SUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!!!!!

You have not played X-Com missing 3 shots @ 90%+ at the last remaining alien, only to get your most advanced Sniper who was behind full cover on high ground and standing in smoke to get one shot with a 9 critical. THAT my friend is truely fucked up RNG. Guess not having dense smoke upgrade was my undoing.

:x
 

Daedalos

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
5,559
Location
Denmark
Things I would like to see in the inevitable underrail expansion/sequel

1. More combat only and Psi only quests. The current game is skewed in favor of stealth roles, just because of all the shortcuts available to them. Many quests are a bitch to complete as a combat specialist. Mind control should be used in dialogue checks too.

2. Intimidation should scale from strength as well as willpower, and spikes on your armor should raise your intimidation.

3. The strength threshold for crowbars should be lowered to 5, or more flimsy vent grates should be added.

4. Some more melee weapons would be nice. A shock lance that can attack two tiles away would be cool. Shotguns could be an interesting option as a sidearm for characters that did not pump perception.

5. SGS credits should be used by default in places that take it.

6. Merchants with high quality goods that travel from zone to zone, junk buyers that will buy anything at 30% it's value.

7. Armor changing character appearance.

8. Cover system. Standing behind a box should reduce your chances of being hit by ranged attacks from that direction. :troll:

1. Combat is NOT fucking favored towards stealth roles, like.. at all. Dude you need to improve your rpg skills. I've played PSI, I'ved played sniper, melee, traps, but never stealthys.. and I'm literally plowing through on HARD.
2. Kind of agree
3. Same
4. Shotguns could be nice, yes and more options, but the game made by 1-2 guys, maybe in the future
5. Nah, diversity in currency is cool and makes sense.
6. There's enough merchants with high qual stuff at it is. Different zones have different merchants, specific for their zone. It fits.
7. That's already in the game, no? Wearing different kind of armors displays that.
 

Mr. Pink

Travelling Gourmand, Crab Specialist
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
3,042
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Things I would like to see in the inevitable underrail expansion/sequel

1. More combat only and Psi only quests. The current game is skewed in favor of stealth roles, just because of all the shortcuts available to them. Many quests are a bitch to complete as a combat specialist. Mind control should be used in dialogue checks too.

2. Intimidation should scale from strength as well as willpower, and spikes on your armor should raise your intimidation.

3. The strength threshold for crowbars should be lowered to 5, or more flimsy vent grates should be added.

4. Some more melee weapons would be nice. A shock lance that can attack two tiles away would be cool. Shotguns could be an interesting option as a sidearm for characters that did not pump perception.

5. SGS credits should be used by default in places that take it.

6. Merchants with high quality goods that travel from zone to zone, junk buyers that will buy anything at 30% it's value.

7. Armor changing character appearance.

8. Cover system. Standing behind a box should reduce your chances of being hit by ranged attacks from that direction. :troll:

1. Combat is NOT fucking favored towards stealth roles, like.. at all. Dude you need to improve your rpg skills. I've played PSI, I'ved played sniper, melee, traps, but never stealthys.. and I'm literally plowing through on HARD.
2. Kind of agree
3. Same
4. Shotguns could be nice, yes and more options, but the game made by 1-2 guys, maybe in the future
5. Nah, diversity in currency is cool and makes sense.
6. There's enough merchants with high qual stuff at it is. Different zones have different merchants, specific for their zone. It fits.
7. That's already in the game, no? Wearing different kind of armors displays that.

1. I mean that stealth characters can complete pretty much every non psi quest in the game, and that many quests are much much easier for stealth users than non stealth. There should be a few options only available to the strong and dexterous, like boxing matches, strongman contests or just missions where you have to exterminate things.

5. I meant that it's stupid that the game always prefers stygians to SGS cash when you click auto when trading in SGS.

6. I meant travelling characters that you would track down that sell cool and useful stuff. Jack Quicksilver is the only one that seems to move around.
 

Fenix

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
6,458
Location
Russia atchoum!
Just look at this.

9674000926ee4dc59b21f08fe238e9eb.jpg


Consider I have no Sharpshooter and Critical Power yet.
Imagine friggin crits, because you can achive 50% crit easily.
It can\may\might end up in 600% critpower.
 
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Jack Dandy

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
3,039
Location
Israel
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Agree on SGS\charon complaint. It's annoying, having to split SGScreds manually in attempt to figure out how to Jew most efficiently.

Also, epeli Styg , just a small tidbit, I don't even know if anybody will notice, but:
I REALLY appreciate how char models look like in their portraits. And the great variety in idle NPC chatter, based on different areas. It adds a polished feel to the game. That's the exact kind of thing that was missing from the Avernum games and made everything there feel.. fake, you know?
Underrail's NPCs have "Warmth". JRPG style warmth. This shit is important, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

But, I would appreciate if some more unique NPCs got unique portraits, at least. Not necasserily models. It would make the game feel even more.. character-ful? Personal? You get what I'm saying, I hope.

Also, making it so when you steal something you at least get a warning before the entire town goes medieval on your ass.

Something to keep in mind for the sequel, please!
 

Nines

Learned
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
230
Am not particularly pleased to admit the big pimp has won me over, but i have seriously had enough with them. You know how many months after its release D:OS's editor was bugged for GOG? Months! I had to torrent a steam rip to be able to play it. So fuck them :)
And considering that the Steam version of Underrail is also DRM-free, and can be launched through .exe completely bypassing Steam... :smug:
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Do quests for scrappers and black heels, do lucky knife quest, and im guessing youve done all extra objectives from quests that came before. you can find 1 x2 oddity killing a couple hoppers.

Didn't find the Hopper Oddity yet, I gave up on them after hunting for hopper leather without success for ten minutes or so. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there don't seem to be that many side quests in the early parts of Underrail? I found a couple, but you don't exactly get showered with 'em.
 
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