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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

razvedchiki

Erudite
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
4,265
Location
on the back of a T34.
also using 2 different guns somewhat cures my restartitis,sometimes i wish underrail was party based to try all the existing builds!!
 

Cyberarmy

Love fool
Patron
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
8,452
Location
Smyrna - Scalanouva
Divinity: Original Sin 2
I nearly tried every build out there(except proto-hipster ones) and I concur, it's better without a party.
Maybe only with 1 side kick, like a robot, dog or psi doppelganger
 
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zaper

Yes.
Developer
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
404
I know this might sound weird as fuck, but I have a very specific type of autism which stops me from being able to enjoy a game if I start it from the beginning more than once in a small window of time. I usually have to wait at least a few years before being able to replay a game.

So I usually spend a lot of time prior playing it deciding how my character will be, and I stick to it till the end instead of rerolling it.

Considering this, in order to have the best experience possible in the first time around, should I go with the Oddity or the Standard XP System?
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Considering this, in order to have the best experience possible in the first time around, should I go with the Oddity or the Standard XP System?

I recommend Oddity, too. Helps me balance killing and sneaking. It rewards exploration even if I don't kill anything. The Classic XP mode has all the usual advantages & disadvantages found in nearly all RPGs. That is, we often do things we wouldn't normally do (eg, kill NPCs after we have finished the relevant quest) to get more XP. Whereas in Oddity mode you can play logically without worrying about losing precious XP. On the other hand, in Classic it is easier to grind for XP, especially since there are some respawning enemies.

All in all, I prefer Oddity by a large margin. I wish all RPGs adopted this system.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Considering this, in order to have the best experience possible in the first time around, should I go with the Oddity or the Standard XP System?

I recommend Oddity, too. Helps me balance killing and sneaking. It rewards exploration even if I don't kill anything. The Classic XP mode has all the usual advantages & disadvantages found in nearly all RPGs. That is, we often do things we wouldn't normally do (eg, kill NPCs after we have finished the relevant quest) to get more XP. Whereas in Oddity mode you can play logically without worrying about losing precious XP. On the other hand, in Classic it is easier to grind for XP, especially since there are some respawning enemies.

All in all, I prefer Oddity by a large margin. I wish all RPGs adopted this system.

There are people who kill needlessly in the Oddity system to get some Oddities you can find only on NPCs like certain badges/marks of factions. The problem of course is that it is complete hogwash since you do not have to find every oddity to reach maximum level.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
3,933
Location
Nedderlent
I know this might sound weird as fuck, but I have a very specific type of autism which stops me from being able to enjoy a game if I start it from the beginning more than once in a small window of time. I usually have to wait at least a few years before being able to replay a game.

So I usually spend a lot of time prior playing it deciding how my character will be, and I stick to it till the end instead of rerolling it.

Considering this, in order to have the best experience possible in the first time around, should I go with the Oddity or the Standard XP System?
Oddity, is great. Also http://underrail.info.tm/build/
 

Beggar

Cipher
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
718
Now when my graphics card is broken and I can only play something with the integrated one, I decided to try this one. And damn it's good. 10 hours into the game and I want to create and play with the second character as well :popamole:
 

Beggar

Cipher
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
718
Dear god, takes a broken graphic card for people to actually try good games.

:negative:

I have my favorite games and I haven't found the time to dive into something new :argh: I'm too old and too conservative :argh:
 

razvedchiki

Erudite
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
4,265
Location
on the back of a T34.
well i went for a pistol build on hard with riot armor and 9mm neo luger,throwing a flashbang or 2 for some quality cc.
my stats are these

4 (5 with food for the shield)
9+++++ dex
3 agi
3 con
3 will
10 per
8 int

im using the 30 health belt and plan to use a sturdy vest for that 75% health.fuck evasion and dodge.

int is 8 because i really really really hate to buy new stuff to craft and be short 1 point to make them (the int nerf of scrapyard surprise fucked really hard crafting).
i also put some points to mercantile to unlock the special merchantice some sellers like baine have,also dislike to fucking wait hours upon hours for that fucking rapid reloader to spawn.
 

ghostdog

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
11,079
Now when my graphics card is broken and I can only play something with the integrated one, I decided to try this one. And damn it's good. 10 hours into the game and I want to create and play with the second character as well :popamole:
That reminds me of the time my winxp got completely fucked up and instead of re-installing, I installed DOS and Dark Sun.

good times
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
OK, just finished my first full playthrough on Normal with a home-made Sniper/SMG build (after having tested several other builds). Here is my short review of the game, and some suggestions.

Pros:
- Character Creation: Excellent. Attributes, Skills, Feats, all great. So many builds are possible, and they play different.
- Character Progression: Excellent. I especially appreciated the fact that skills are capped every level, which kept things in check.
- Stealth system: Excellent. Probably the best I have seen.
- Combat and AI: Great fun. The AI is very good, and I haven't even tried the upgraded AI of Hard difficulty yet.
- Crafting: Excellent, maybe the best I have seen. An expanded version of the Arcanum crafting system. I only wished that the crafting screen was a bit more convenient to handle.
- XP system: The Oddity XP system is brilliant, finally I don't feel that I have to kill everything. I wish all RPGs that involve sneaking or exploration adopt this system.
- Story, Narrative, Characters: Excellent. I didn't expect much here, but I was very pleasantly surprised. The characters kicked ass (seriously, so many interesting characters), the story was very intriguing (even if it left unanswered questions in the end). Funny moments, hair raising moments, sad moments, it has it all.
- Exploration: Very good. Interesting and satisfying. Many locations have their own secrets or tricks. I think a bit more could have been done with the under-passages, though. Also, see below for respawning enemies.
- C&C: Good. Our choices often come back to haunt us. But I wished more early quests played a bigger role in Deep Caverns (New Vegas-style), as it already happens with the Faceless.
- Reactivity: Pretty good. I expected more reactivity in Core City to being the Invictus.
- Questing: Excellent. Many different ways to skin each cat. Different tricks for various quests/locations. Some quests are challenging to piece together. Incline!
- Music: Very Good. I enjoyed it, it set the mood for exploration successfully. The game is huge, and so a few more themes would have come in handy (in Core City, eg), but I understand.
- Replayability: Excellent. Mainly for trying different builds (so many are possible!), but there are also several instances where mutually exclusive routes can be taken (eg, Protectorate vs Free Drones, dealing with the Faceless, Junkyard and Core City factions etc). I know what I 'll be playing this summer.

On the Fence:
- Although this is a turn-based game, there are a few quests and enemies that are acted out in real-time. Example of enemy: Crawlers, very dangerous enemies that may attack you out of nowhere. Example of quest: Stealing the shield shipment for Gorsky. This is going to be a nightmare in ironman-mode. I generally dislike real-time elements in turn-based games, but I may be willing to give Underrail a pass. Different gimmicks are given to each enemy, so it's OK if I don't like one of them. As a matter of fact, the design of crawlers is quite interesting, I just wish they were confined in a specific dungeon and not spread all over the map.

- Change of pace with the writing at Institute of Tchort, suddenly everyone becomes very talkative and there are a lot of descriptions. This change of pace is probably a result of the game being too long in the making, I guess? Anyway, it wasn't bad, but i think I preferred the more concise dialogues of the early game. They fit the atmosphere better.

- Economy. A lot of serious work has gone into the game's economy, with the merchants being selective and restocking every 1.5h, with the different currencies used at different locations, and with the money sinks of steel fiber and the player house. Also, I can understand that open-world games are a bitch to balance their economy. Still I can see why Al Fabet is probably angry at Styg. I think that it could be improved if Merchants were a bit less selective, and weapons/armors were cheaper. The point is that we find many weapons/armors to sell, while we only buy very few. This very method was used in the "Economy Overhaul" mod for New Vegas, and proved to me that it can be done.

Cons:
- Some issues with Deep Caverns, but I am going to cover that later.
- The game needs a more fleshed-out tutorial. Underrail innovates left and right, and lots of people may find the start of the game intimidating. Help them more with traps, throwing, sneaking, stealing, crafting, it is a lot to take in. Break the sneaking tutorial to two rooms, one with only a camera and one with only a robot. Also, the robot should run much slower than it currently runs.
- Respawning enemies. I do not like respawning enemies ever, and here it is no exception. Fighting enemies I have already beat is not much fun. The devs certainly know what I am talking about, as most enemies don't respawn, only few of them do. If you want a "living ecosystem", replace them beat enemies with friendly creatures or place the respawns slightly on the side so that a non-stealth character can pass through unmolested.


Deep Caverns:
Oh, the infamous DC. It has problems, and I think the two major ones are:

- It is a huge change of pace near the end of the game, but not quite at the end (still several hours to go!). By that time, most people will just want to finish and try the next build they have in mind. DC does not serve such people well.

- I think the DC currently has a lot of cool locations, but they do not work well together. Let me illustrate: The mushroom forest is really cool, the labyrinth is good, the residential apartments are interesting (plus a hair raising moment waiting for the sneaking player), the eye of tortch respawns are thematic and atmospheric, Leo and his hole were pretty cool, the mutagen puzzle was excellent. However, all of this together does not make a very fun experience, it is just too much with little breath in-between.

- My solution would have been:
* Cut the Arke powerplant alltogether. It is the lowpoint of the game, and it only serves to frustrate already frustrated players. It is not a difficult part of DC, but it's the worst designed one. Going back and forth through respawning enemies was so boring that my brain nearly shut down. It is the place where I nearly quit.
* Move the labyrinth or the mushroom forest to a different quest in Upper Underrail, in an effort to make things less overwhelming and the whole experience shorter.
* Leo is helpful with the forest and the debuffs, but LEO IS ON THE FAR SIDE OF THE FUCKING MAP. He should have been brought closer to the entrance.
* The Eye of Tchort debuffs should probably be slower. Like 4 times slower.
* Scrap the biogrenade, there are already a billion parts we are looking for, and it only adds to the confusion. If the forest is kept, it should be useful for something different.
* The player should first meet the Faceless and only then the Tchortists. The way the map is now, the unprepared player is bound to meet the Tchortists first.
* Six could be more helpful describing what the player is about to face.
* Even if you made all these pseudo-simplifying changes, I promise you that the new players are still going to be overwhelmed. Just not as much. Right now, it is just too much.

Conclusion:

Underrail is a great game full of innovative systems, interesting locations and story, fun exploration and combat. It has a captivating narrative, but it is going to appeal to combatfags more, as it is designed around its combat systems. Beware that it is a bit intimidating in the beginning and very intimidating at the end. I rate it 9/10, which is the grade I give to my favorite RPGs (including the early Fallouts).
 
Last edited:

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,825
Yep, the deep caverns would work much better if they were optional locations spread through the game. By the time you get there you are ready to finish the game, kills the pacing.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
I wished more early quests played a bigger role in Deep Caverns (New Vegas-style), as it already happens with the Faceless.
Well, dealing with the Rathound King could be considered an early quest and it can have an effect on DC. That's the only example I can think of, other than Detritus and your relations with the Faceless.

I expected more reactivity in Core City to being the Invictus.
You're not the Invictus, the real Invictus is taller.

Although this is a turn-based game, there are a few quests and enemies that are acted out in real-time.
This is because Underrail (or should I say Timelapse Vertigo) started out as a real-time game.



Cut the Arke powerplant alltogether. It is the lowpoint of the game, and it only serves to frustrate already frustrated players. It is not a difficult part of DC, but it's the worst designed one. Going back and forth through respawning enemies was so boring that my brain nearly shut down. It is the place where I nearly quit.
That's funny, I know a few people who consider Arke to be one of the better parts of DC. I can see it being frustrating for builds with no stealth and no hacking/electronics though.

Leo is helpful with the forest and the debuffs, but LEO IS ON THE FAR SIDE OF THE FUCKING MAP. He should have been brought closer to the entrance.

The Eye of Tchort debuffs should probably be slower. Like 4 times slower.
Oh boy, if you only experienced the DC when it ws first released. There were no pointers to Leo's location whatsoever, he gave only as fraction of information he gives now, same for Six, and the debuff was much, much faster. Also respawning burrowers in front of Arke and the elevator.

Six could be more helpful describing what the player is about to face.
He could, but you don't need to know that.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
4,499
Location
The border of the imaginary
I know this might sound weird as fuck, but I have a very specific type of autism which stops me from being able to enjoy a game if I start it from the beginning more than once in a small window of time. I usually have to wait at least a few years before being able to replay a game.

So I usually spend a lot of time prior playing it deciding how my character will be, and I stick to it till the end instead of rerolling it.

Considering this, in order to have the best experience possible in the first time around, should I go with the Oddity or the Standard XP System?
If you want to be a murderhobo and enjoy the xp after kills go classic.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Added Music in the Positives, and Economy in the "On the Fence" section.


Yep, the deep caverns would work much better if they were optional locations spread through the game. By the time you get there you are ready to finish the game, kills the pacing.

I agree. At any rate, it is clear that Styg was after a very different structure, and the DC design aims at making the player feel nightmarish despair and confusion. But let's say we run with Styg's vision. In such cases, pacing and duration are very important, and DC in its current state is still way off the mark.It is hard to estimate how much time I spent in DC due to the reloads, but I think it must have been 20-30 hours. Of course, it is going to be much better in future playthroughs, but the first one was more painful than it should have been.

h boy, if you only experienced the DC when it ws first released. There were no pointers to Leo's location whatsoever, he gave only as fraction of information he gives now, same for Six, and the debuff was much, much faster. Also respawning burrowers in front of Arke and the elevator.

Ha! I have been wondering how come those burrowers didn't respawn, after what happened inside Arke! Thanks brothers-who-complained for doing this for me.

Yes, the whole DC is overdone, and I expect that other people are going to be asking for more changes even if Styg implemented every single one of my suggestions. It will still be overdone.

That's funny, I know a few people who consider Arke to be one of the better parts of DC. I can see it being frustrating for builds with no stealth and no hacking/electronics though.

Weird, maybe because it's not one of the hardest parts? But the real question is whether anyone enjoyed Arke.

It will certainly be painfully boring for a non-stealth build, but I had a stealth build and still couldn't avoid the respawns. I don't think it's possible. Some robots respawn no matter what, and also the cameras are unavoidable for stealth builds as well. Some important doors are right next to the cameras. I made use of the shafts as well, doesn't matter much.


Underrail (or should I say Timelapse Vertigo) started out as a real-time game.

Wow, didn't know, and would never have guessed!

You're not the Invictus, the real Invictus is taller.

Not sure what you mean here, I won the Arena, and became the Invictus. The game recognized me as such, I just expected it to be mentioned much more often.
 

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