Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
It's about the difficulty-based DC endgame infinite respawn monsters. On the highest difficulty there's not even a delay between their respawns. Have to shoot through all the way till map exit battling the spawns.
Even though Creeping Dread stacks a lot faster on DOMINATING, it's not so fast that you can't avoid dealing with tchortlings at all. Rush to Leo to get Echoing Soliloquy, make use of the hatches around Hollow Earth, don't use stealth until you actually get Eye of Tchort and need to hide (because slow movement speed means you are wasting precious time) and you will be fine. I didn't really have to fight any tchortlings on DOMINATING before reaching Tchort itself, I only had some trouble when trying to get Exitus. 177 stealth was entirely sufficient to sneak past them on DOMINATING. No speedhack either.

When a description for a feat says "bonus applied multiplicatively" for some percentage, the game means to add the values together. If you have bonuses of 20% and 45%, it means (1 + .2 + .45)%, aka 165%. The term used ingame is sort of confusing.
No, you described additive bonuses, i.e all you add all of them together. With multiplicative bonuses you multiply all of them, so 1 * 1,2 * 1,45 = 1,74 = 174%

Are pistols viable for the highest difficulty? If so, which ones?
Energy? Yes.

Chemical? Yes.

Firearm? Should be, but it's going to be hard. Any of the hammerers if you want to build around crits, 9mm Neo Luger if you don't. Crit-based pistol only build are probably a better choice.

Is the experimental chem pistol viable after the boot nerf?
It's more trouble than it's worth if you ask me.

Is AR still top-tier? Tank armor or tactical vest? I'd prefer the latter.
They are still very strong, yes. Either armor works for them.

Expect an AR nerf in the future. You didn't hear that from me.

Do I need stealth for DC?
Not necessarily on Hard and below, but you really, really want to have stealth on DOMINATING in general.

Does anyone (not savescummers) use leather armor? It has no fucking DT or DR.
I'm pretty much the opposite of a savescummer and imo infused leather armors are the overall best armors in the game, other than metal armors for high armor penalty builds and tac vests for psi builds. My low armor penalty builds usually end up wearing infused pig leather armors with no points in dodge/evasion (other than 30 dodge for Escape Artist). High quality pig leather armors have over 40% mech DR, around 10 DT and give 100+ HP on top of that, at only 15% armor penalty. You can also add high-density padding for a few more % of DR and a hugge increase in melee-only DR (up to around 50%) for only 5% more. If I wanted to fo Evasion/Dodge, infuser siphoner is the best choice by far.

Drop me some mutagen puzzle (having all components), I want to write a working solver this time.

Exitus 1 - S1 VZ L1 PT Q2 CT GY Q5 IL VH Y8 FX

Helicon 1 - L1 PT Q2 CT GY -D4 -AN -YI
Helicon 2 - Y8 FX Q2 L1
Helicon 3 - WR Q5 D4 VH -A9 -VZ -YI
Io 1 - FX Y8 CT IL RT -Q2 -AN
Io 2 - S1 VZ D4 -Q5 -HV -Y8 -PT
Io 3 - L1 HV VH -VZ
Solis 1 - Q5 Q2 L1 AN -WR -GY -IL
Solis 2 - VZ CT D4 -A9 -HV
Echo 1 - Q2 AN S1 HV
Echo 2 - RT VZ IL Q5 -WR -FX -VH -PT
Echo 3 - Q5 Q2 WR VZ
Echo 4 - PT VH Y8 FX -A9
Ovid 1 - RT VH PT WR A9 CT Y8 -D4 -FX -S1 -GY
Ovid 2 - A9 IL L1 -QT -WR
Ovid 3 - Y8 RT VZ QT -L1 -IL
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
What if I ditched Intimidate and used those points to raise Mercantile to 105, would that be cool?
If you want to play talky-talky, taking Intimidate anyway should be okay, especially since you want to play a PSI character in conjunction to being talky-talky (so you're going to pump up your WIL on top of having it being 10 from since character creation scene), so you should have enough SPs to take both. Do notice that, when you put points into skills, there will be a number inside a bracket next to the real numbers of skillpoints you've been putting into them, it indicates that the skill is benefiting from synergy, either from some other skills, or from its main stats (oh yes, the number inside bracket could also indicates penalty to the skill if the main stats is below 4), so you don't *actually* need to pump exactly 105 SPs into mercantile, so long as its main stats (which is INT) is above 4 *and* so long as you also pump up the skill that synergies with it (iirc it was Persuasion). But, from reading some previous posts it seems you're better of going either Persuasion *or* Intimidation, along with Mercantile to see if you can bamboozle people into shady deals.

I personally took Persuasion *and* Intimidation because I was feeling like trying to pass every single social checks that I could find, alternating between the two.

Ok well, it sounds like exactly the sort of build I want to play, so let me know. And yeah, I was referring to the last build you posted, the full PSI one
But I'm gonna hold off trying that build until the expansion is released, though. I'm also not gonna go straight ahead, since I want to experience either unarmed or AR first, so it might gonna be awhile if you're waiting for me to let you know how it plays, *especially* since I'm still a wimp who's not confident in playing at Hard.

In re selling: med stuff doesn't sell well. Sell electronics (!), ammo, guns and some types of armor. Repair stuff before selling if you can craft advanced repair kits. Then you can actually break the economy. You can even break the economy by adding all most expensive (though useless) mods to an item. Fill all the moddable slots. Sad but true.
Yep, this has been the way I've been playing, repairing stuff always pump up an item's value so much I could accumulate wealth in virtually no time at all. No need to drop shit in front of merchants, just play normally and store extra loot in your house.

Which is why complaining about tedium of trading in Underrail is mindboggling for me. Just playing normally, accumulating loot *especially* crafting components (if you're a crafter) allows you to wipe out a trader's stock of cash and supplies too easily. Even if you're not a crafter and, thus, the crafting components are virtually useless for you because you can't craft more expensive items to sell, you can always hold on to a couple of higher quality electronic devices, guns, and armors (especially modded ones, read the item's description, people!) -> buy repair kits from merchants -> repair the items you can sell -> profit, especially if you're leveling Mercantile.

Does anyone (not savescummers) use leather armor? It has no fucking DT or DR.
I'm no savescummer, too, and I'm gonna second Tygrende that leather armors, especially infused ones, are overall best armor in terms of its versatility, not only for PSI characters, but also for stealthy characters and characters who depended on light armors in general (so, Dodge-Evasion builds). Although, maybe my opinion on infused leather armors being the best armor for stealthy characters is biased, since I have *no* experience of playing a stealthy characters who craft and wear armors any other than infused leather armors.

You said it yourself, right? Infused stuff got nerfed but it's still great. You can even use shit (think cave hopper) leather w/ good plates and come out on top with 120+ quality. I'm kind of bummed since I personally never encounter a cave hopper leather with quality close to 40, but I think that's the point of super-steel fibers.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,496
Location
Grand Chien
What if I ditched Intimidate and used those points to raise Mercantile to 105, would that be cool?
If you want to play talky-talky, taking Intimidate anyway should be okay, especially since you want to play a PSI character in conjunction to being talky-talky (so you're going to pump up your WIL on top of having it being 10 from since character creation scene), so you should have enough SPs to take both. Do notice that, when you put points into skills, there will be a number inside a bracket next to the real numbers of skillpoints you've been putting into them, it indicates that the skill is benefiting from synergy, either from some other skills, or from its main stats (oh yes, the number inside bracket could also indicates penalty to the skill if the main stats is below 4), so you don't *actually* need to pump exactly 105 SPs into mercantile, so long as its main stats (which is INT) is above 4 *and* so long as you also pump up the skill that synergies with it (iirc it was Persuasion). But, from reading some previous posts it seems you're better of going either Persuasion *or* Intimidation, along with Mercantile to see if you can bamboozle people into shady deals.

I personally took Persuasion *and* Intimidation because I was feeling like trying to pass every single social checks that I could find, alternating between the two.

Ok well, it sounds like exactly the sort of build I want to play, so let me know. And yeah, I was referring to the last build you posted, the full PSI one
But I'm gonna hold off trying that build until the expansion is released, though. I'm also not gonna go straight ahead, since I want to experience either unarmed or AR first, so it might gonna be awhile if you're waiting for me to let you know how it plays, *especially* since I'm still a wimp who's not confident in playing at Hard..

That's fine, I'm not going to play until the XP drops either

I guess I will take Intimidate after all
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,496
Location
Grand Chien
For writing you have to admire Phryg's contributions. In particular the various science bits from fields including physics, medicine, you fucking name it. They actually make sense. Some are so spot-on (patient log in morgue area) it's amazing. I haven't seen anything like that in any game.

Did anyone here meet the hidden faction on the 1st playthrough without spoilers? It's like NetHack, gotta read spoilers.

Once you clock several hundred hours you'll get disappointed in builds that aren't viable for DOMINATING. And you'll use the speedhack given how many builds aren't viable after a while.

SMG without 200+ (or was it 300+?) stealth isn't viable for DOMINATING. You'll run out of ammo with no chance to restock fast enough. It doesn't matter how godly overpowered you can burst five times a round without adrenaline rush or whatever.

Borderless fullscreen support is broken for me regardless of OS version or app used for forcing borderless. If you have any ideas then please help.

In re selling: med stuff doesn't sell well. Sell electronics (!), ammo, guns and some types of armor. Repair stuff before selling if you can craft advanced repair kits. Then you can actually break the economy. You can even break the economy by adding all most expensive (though useless) mods to an item. Fill all the moddable slots. Sad but true.

In re speedhack: I never complained about Underrail's move speed on the 1st playthrough. Subsequent playthroughs and trying half dozen various builds I couldn't stand it. Never got people who complained about Diablo 1 move speed though.

In re crossbow: from my experience it's enough to make a blunder in one turn (or stealth) to get totally destroyed. Other builds are more forgiving. YMMV.

In re Tchort: Every fucking Slavic person knows the word so basically the last part of the game is spoiled for us. Maybe filthy Americans can remain unspoiled without googling the word.

Merchants refresh every 90 minutes.

Just to make it more precise, it's 90 min REAL LIFE TIME, regardless of ingame actions taken. Speedhack affects restock time as well. Same's for Foundry plates made out of money. AFK cheating this way is sort of low though, worse than plain savescumming.

Mercantile's not bad. I find it's worthwhile going to 55

Once you get to 105, things for crafters are superpowered (faction, warfare faction, hidden faction and devil worshipper shoppes). It's just the damn quality level lottery that ruins things a bit. Also see wiki page for Mercantile levels required.

Really someone complains about icons in UR? I found UR icons really distinguishable. If you dont see well, maybe its time to go to ophthalmologist.

It's about the greyed out icons in trade interface. Also note display contrast ratio and gamma. Colors aren't equal on every display. Get an actual colorimeter and then we'll talk about sight issues. I have a budget 4K and it has poor contrast ratio obviously. The game has no gamma slider but there's hella shades of blue. Blue is most badly represented on low contrast ratio displays.
I take it you think I should ditch talky stuff entirely?

Or just Intimidate?
 

Twiglard

Poland Stronk
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
7,238
Location
Poland
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Tygrende thanks for the spoilered news.
I don't mind what you said but the burst cost is already damn prohibitive. It's way too easy to make a good-enough AR build though.
More things I forgot:

The Ambush perk works great with incendiary grenades (or even lousy flares). There's a particular level of lighting on player character's portrait where it starts to work. Consult portrait before unloading the magazine. Given the generally-OP incendiaries it doesn't matter where the enemy is standing, light-wise. Bonus points for randomly setting enemies on fire, incapacitating them for several turns.

The taser works always–that is, has no chance to hit mechanic at all. Regardless of target's Evasion, Dodge etc.

The OP incendiaries mess up the AI where they walk into the flames only to retreat. This made me use these 'nades way less.

There's a perk requiring stealth investment but giving you bonuses regardless of whether you're in stealth or not. Take it. I forgot the details, sorry. Read the descriptions carefully.

Don't bother making energy shields without the efficiency module. Amplified shields are useless, except for sale. Plain shields are useless too unless it's your first one. Make low frequency shields to stand a chance in melee. Stealthy enemy snipers with Aimed Shot may be a pain in the ass, YMMV.

You see first hand the fucked up shit Old Biocorp was responsible for

Uncovering the lore incrementally like pieces of a puzzle was interesting. I dunno what's so fucked up about them, given how effective they were. They did some immoral/amoral experimentation but old quote says "The difference between insanity and genius is defined only by success". Big spoiler:
They're responsible for humans being able to live in Underrail after the holocaust to begin with!

They probed the surface unlike Southern ratters stuck in the Stone Age incapable of anything similar. I assume they did indeed probe it, rather than base its inhospitability purely on extrapolation. Even extrapolation requires actual data, knowledge what the fuck happened. The ratters don't have nothing on that.
I haven't judged them in moral terms (like the game doesn't judge the PC either), only that they were very competent in their research. Of course there you have the manbearpigs... half rock, half human, half machine. And what actually got thrown into the vats by aforementioned trinitarian monstrosities. Dude holds the answers. Hopefully this doesn't spoil stuff for new players, given my preceding nonsensical statements. I like the half-rock part of them too, it's very enlightening when interacted with.

switch between 2 different SMGs

That's interesting in a way, given DC warehouses and some other non-Hollow Earth areas.

What if I ditched Intimidate and used those points to raise Mercantile to 105, would that be cool?

I take it you think I should ditch talky stuff entirely?

Or just Intimidate?

Intimidate makes sense (only?) for a melee build w/ the Yell feat (or does it not? please confirm Tygrende).

Have you been to DC? I'm assuming not, hence my sometimes half-nonsensical replies. It's some dog-whistle stuff that vets should understand. Hell, I clocked an insane amount of hours in Underrail, but I admit that I left the game alt-tabbed overnight several times by accident. Worse than beating Skyrim 7 times.

You don't need any social skill point investment at all even for the hidden faction. You're still able to solve quests optimally.
Underrail isn't a game like Fallout, Arcanum, or AoD with C&C first and foremost. The point is to become lord god king of murder and blast through DC despite the insane opposition. Then there's a surprise phallic encounter with what my current avatar is. Mild spoiler:
Except there's several of them, and the puzzle may be mandatory.

A true lord god king of murder can prevail still.

It's like murdering Carni, especially without taser usage. It's NOT like BG2 with cheeses like nested Simulacra. It's being a non-cheesy warrior-poet of utter rape, pillage and murder. In that order. The game won't judge you and it's even fine to kill random slummer zoners. Only for their shitty weapons to turn into scrap and make repair kits of. "Zabił staruszkę za pięć złotych w portmonetce".

You can't beat the game without killing people. It's like starting the NWN1 campaign and going for a talker-only character. Beat Underrail once on Normal and then go right for DOMINATING. Given DC was nerfed in general you should be able to handle it with a suboptimal build. But grab a world map for DC to save yourself excessive frustration. The new world map game feature is good but might not be enough. The entire DC procedure is needlessly convoluted.

For a build shooting automatic firearms you should know what the two late-game OP perks are.

High quality pig leather armors have over 40% mech DR, around 10 DT and give 100+ HP on top of that, at only 15% armor penalty

That's very interesting given the lack of firearm users in DC (unless making people hostile pointlessly). What stats is your typical high-level Leather Armor? You use black fabric, right? I dunno why things like e.g. aluminum balaclavas exist at all.

I didn't really have to fight any tchortlings on DOMINATING before reaching Tchort itself, I only had some trouble when trying to get Exitus. 177 stealth was entirely sufficient

<3 I made the poor choice of Jackhammering Hollow Earth for goodies. Makes lots of noise, not to mention the lousy infinite reinforcements. Should've ran through. Once the enemies align in a certain way, I couldn't either sneak or blast through. And that Mental Breakdown/Bam combo was instakill.

Energy? Yes.

Chemical? Yes.

Great! Which of the energy pistols are worth anything? Laser seems worthless. The two others show promise, especially given CC and lack of burst CTH penalties involved with other weapons.

Which is why complaining about tedium of trading in Underrail is mindboggling for me. Just playing normally, accumulating loot *especially* crafting components (if you're a crafter) allows you to wipe out a trader's stock of cash and supplies too easily.

It's whining like complaining that PS:T Mortuary is boring so the game sucks.

buy repair kits from merchants -> repair the items you can sell -> profit

Just get fifty in the crafting skills involved (except chemistry). Is it actually feasible to avoid doing that? I compared my Steel Cat to ones sold by vendors and my 7.62 had better damage than vendors' 8.6mm. Then there are the worthless vendor shields without that L-shaped battery-saving component.

That's fine, I'm not going to play until the XP drops either

You mean nerfing the XP mode? I'm not sure that's gonna happen... I'd like that too but then difficulty needs balancing too. I'd play on Oddity up to Hard, inclusive.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
588
Great! Which of the energy pistols are worth anything? Laser seems worthless. The two others show promise, especially given CC and lack of burst CTH penalties involved with other weapons.
They're all good. Energy pistol crits are so strong that once your build gets going even the laser is capable of one shotting most enemies, so it's your default rapid fire option. Electroshock is great because the bounce means you can kill multiple enemies per shot, and it has the stun chance. Plasma has the least utility but its aimed shot is ridiculously powerful so it's your go to option for boss fights.
So yeah, make one of each. Laser should be efficient amplified, the other two need to be smart amplified. Kills everything no problem. Except bladelings/shroomlings, fuck those guys and their crit immunity.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
When does the expansion release?
You fuck, every time someone asks this question, a thousand micro-issues appears! :argh:
:negative:

There's a perk requiring stealth investment but giving you bonuses regardless of whether you're in stealth or not. Take it. I forgot the details, sorry. Read the descriptions carefully.
The perk you're talking about is right there, when you typed this bit:
The Ambush perk works great with incendiary grenades (or even lousy flares). There's a particular level of lighting on player character's portrait where it starts to work. Consult portrait before unloading the magazine. Given the generally-OP incendiaries it doesn't matter where the enemy is standing, light-wise. Bonus points for randomly setting enemies on fire, incapacitating them for several turns.
http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ambush
When attacking an illuminated target from out of the darkness with a ranged weapon you ignore half the target's evasion and your critical chance is increased by 20% plus 0,3% for each stealth skill point.
No other feats works the way you described it. Both Snipe and Cut-throat requires player character to be stealthed before they can perform it, while Interloper obviously affect active stealthing.

Just get fifty in the crafting skills involved (except chemistry). Is it actually feasible to avoid doing that? I compared my Steel Cat to ones sold by vendors and my 7.62 had better damage than vendors' 8.6mm. Then there are the worthless vendor shields without that L-shaped battery-saving component.
I sadly haven't the luxury of trying to play a zero crafting characters, BUT! I can testify that, when I was playing my PSI-stealthy character who was also a crafter, I was nearly avoiding crafting altogether (except for meds and drugs) because I was kind of not confident with the result I might get if I try to craft anything before Core City, and because of it throughout the entirety of SGS, Junkyard, and Rail Crossing, most of the time when selling stuff I relied on repairing low durability items for profits.

Also, the way pickpocketing works in this game (zero need for savescumming) means, theoretically, you can start swimming in cash and supplies before even begin exploring Depot A. I've heard people breaking the economy so early in the game when playing a thief character. Theoretically, even if you happen to play a zero crafting character, investing in Pickpocketing means you can get much better equipment, also because (from what I can remember) there are many NPCs who bring a side weapon with them.

Anyway, talking about pickpocketing in Underrail, it reminds me that a certain feat has been bothering me. http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ninja_Looter
Reduces pickpocketing time by 50%. Also reduces suspicion raised when pickpocketing by 25% when hidden from the target.
Anybody knows how the fuck can one stay stealthed around NPCs to pickpocket long enough to take all or almost all of their items *before* their eye turns red? Because from my experience of sneaking and snooping about in real-time, staying too long even behind an NPC can turn their eye red in between 5-10 seconds. Do we have to have mad skillz to pull it off (and by mad skillz, I mean 300+ stealth skill + 420BlazeIt mouse-clicking mad-skillz), or can you activate pickpocketing in turn-based mode to halt detection progress? I've heard that in older versions, people managed to pickpocket fucking creatures like boars and rathounds, but the newer updates prevented it. It seems it's possible to pickpocket raiders and bandits like Lunatics and Lurkers, but damn, 5-10 seconds is kind of real tight ass window to pickpocket hostile NPCs.

epeli what do you know about this?
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,381
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I guess I'm the only one that has played two campaigns with a chars that did zero crafting (one on normal and one on had). My next char will be a crossbow-trapper and I will probably dive into the crafting system, but at the game can easily be completed just by utilizing uniques and found gear (at least up to hard).
 

Twiglard

Poland Stronk
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
7,238
Location
Poland
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Energy pistol crits are so strong that once your build gets going even the laser is capable of one shotting most enemies, so it's your default rapid fire option.

How can you increase the base crit chance for it to be viable? Amplified laser pistols sure seem like pure deathbringers on crit, given DEX bonus. Surely there's Aimed Shot and situational crit chance increase like Ambush but is there something that works all the time? I can think of goggles and Recklessness so far.

I was nearly avoiding crafting altogether (except for meds and drugs) because I was kind of not confident with the result I might get if I try to craft anything before Core City, and because of it throughout the entirety of SGS, Junkyard, and Rail Crossing, most of the time when selling stuff I relied on repairing low durability items for profits.

You might still consider crafting NV goggles that aren't trash (like Junkyard's or Ezra's premade goggles), and a shield. A shield without the efficiency module is worthless IMO. Even if total capacity is bad overall, it's still better than what early Core City has to offer. It takes a bit of point investment to make the latter though. Think, efficiency module and two frequency modules. You may still settle for one frequency module but never omit the efficiency module.

Also Blaine's shoppe has good components sometimes.

I totally hated (and will, in future playthroughs) the NV goggles' activation cost and drain. The activation cost is especially punitive. That's why I crafted better and better ones at every opportunity. Of course having them enabled is totally OP, at least compared to the base case. Mid-late game I can't live without them.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
588
How can you increase the base crit chance for it to be viable?
Good seeker goggles+recklessness+infused rathound leather+focus stim is enough to hit 50%. That's enough, I find. Though obviously you should try and get ambush going when possible so it can be 100%.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
You might still consider crafting NV goggles that aren't trash (like Junkyard's or Ezra's premade goggles), and a shield. A shield without the efficiency module is worthless IMO. Even if total capacity is bad overall, it's still better than what early Core City has to offer. It takes a bit of point investment to make the latter though. Think, efficiency module and two frequency modules. You may still settle for one frequency module but never omit the efficiency module.

Also Blaine's shoppe has good components sometimes.
Yeah, I'm thinking of making a tech-junkie character in the grim darkness of the far future and try to craft stuff as early as Junkyard.

I totally hated (and will, in future playthroughs) the NV goggles' activation cost and drain. The activation cost is especially punitive. That's why I crafted better and better ones at every opportunity. Of course having them enabled is totally OP, at least compared to the base case. Mid-late game I can't live without them.
It's the offset for its primary function, I suppose. Being able to completely eliminate darkness penalty with a single click gotta cost something. Especially (iirc) it cost no AP to activate it during combat.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,000
I basically consider this game finished when you enter DC area. DC is no longer a chill exploration combat game but an irritating timer based combat puzzle game. Fuck that shit. Before DC this is easily 9/10 game, and DC area is 5/10 at most.
 

ortucis

Prophet
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
2,015
This game really needs respec option in-game.

Making the players replay opening segments over and over again is a really good way of making them hate your game. Nobody wants to sit through that shit more than once. Right now only thing I wanna change is take back 15 points from Crossbow I spent, but I'm not gonna restart just for that. Not to mention, I doubt it I'll be replaying this game when I'm done with it. Seems pretty linear so far, plus the story is average, so not exactly something worth going through again. Oh well.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
This game really needs respec option in-game.

Making the players replay opening segments over and over again is a really good way of making them hate your game. Nobody wants to sit through that shit more than once.
Are you talking about the opening 'cinematic' of dialogue between Tanner, Vera, and Gorsky + tutorial with Vencel, or are you talking about the quest to retake the outposts?

The former are all skippable. As for the latter, well, you gotta get used to it because this is mostly combat-oriented game where sneaking is the most viable non-combat gameplay option to avoid combat.

Seems pretty linear so far, plus the story is average, so not exactly something worth going through again. Oh well.
:nocountryforshitposters:
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Well, the story is subjective, I guess, but is he wrong that it is pretty linear? It's not like you have any actual choices in what you do.

The game itself is not linear with the level of exploration offered, but that really only works the first time you play it. And with an automap it might not work at all?

Asking for respeccing is complete faggotry, though.
 
Last edited:

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
Well, the story is subjective, I guess, but is he wrong that the game is pretty linear? It's not like you have any actual choices in what you do.
You have choices, though? The simplest would be to choose between the conflicting factions, Scrappers vs. Black Eels, Free Drones vs. Protectorate, Camp Hathor vs. Rathound King, and then you can choose between the three Oligarchs (JKK vs. Praetorian vs. Coretech). In the conflict between the Scrappers and Black Eels, if you choose to support Black Eels, you can choose what third party you want to participate in the climax and it changes the ending slides. The more complex one would be the choices leading to you working for the secret faction. There are multiple prerequisites to get there, and there are opportunities to fuck it up altogether, you might not even get it. And the quests they give you also have multiple pathways and solutions. Believe it or not, the world of Underrail is full of little choices that can change an ending slides, either completely or just slightly by adding a sentence or two. Reactivity is still pretty weak, though.

To be honest, every time someone is talking about how a game is linear, I can't understand if they're talking about the game's progression or the story. The game is linear at the beginning, indeed, and it only opens up until after we're done with Depot A, but is there anything inherently wrong with that? As in, does that means the game is bad for it?
 

ortucis

Prophet
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
2,015
http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=3046.msg15959#msg15959

There are many reasons it won't be implemented. Respeccing undermines the very foundation of the RPG. Mistakes and imperfections are part of the experience.

That's just fucking stupid.

Most people are creating "SUPAH BUILD" by discussing it on forums and completely skipping the "mistakes and imperfections" part. The only people it punishes are people like me, who don't rely on guides and tips on how to make a perfect build on day 1 of playing. Allowing players to switch out an ability or two doesn't "UNDERMINE" anything.

You know what undermines the foundation of RPG? Shit UI and trading system where traders want same shit, only in different amount 90 mins later.
This is just another way of saying "I want people to waste time, preferably over 2 hr refund Steam limit." :bounce:
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
Most people are creating "SUPAH BUILD" by discussing it on forums and completely skipping the "mistakes and imperfections" part. The only people it punishes are people like me, who don't rely on guides and tips on how to make a perfect build on day 1 of playing. Allowing players to switch out an ability or two doesn't "UNDERMINE" anything.
That SUPAH BUILD you're talking about are only good at few things and weak at the others. There's no way a super assault rifle build would be able to go up close and personal bashing people's skulls with a sledgehammer, and neither a thief character can go around wearing heavy armor with >50% armor penalty. And there's no skipping "mistakes and imperfections" part when trying to achieve SUPAH build, because the mistakes parts were there when trying to find what works and what's not for certain builds (especially since it's not like your average joe can completely handle a hardcore RPG with an optimal build, especially if they're a scrub like you), while the imperfections parts are all still there like the aforementioned thief characters will never be able to wear any armor with ~50% penalty and, thus, unable to take too many hits like tanky characters can.
And no matter how you twist and turn its definition, a 'perfect build' means a build that can do ANYTHING, like being able to use all offensive skill, sneaking and dodging attacks left and right while wearing heavy armor, being able to craft EVERYTHING while also being able to talk out of every single encounter.

Respeccing in any proper RPG undermines its very foundation, because no matter what kind of respeccing it is, either one time only or unlimited, players then won't have to worry about making significant decisions and can just "oh well, I can respec any (or that one) time, so I can just try to play this subpar build, and switch later on to an optimal one". Even if it's one time only, what's the point of having character creation at the beginning of the game? Maybe you should think twice before putting points into random shit just because you're feeling like it.

You know what undermines the foundation of RPG? Shit UI and trading system where traders want same shit, only in different amount 90 mins later.
Still going at it, I see. Never knew Al Fabet is actually a fucking storyfag :lol:
 

Efe

Erudite
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
2,597
respec is unnecessary if you consider you just max out the skills for them to be viable.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
Most people are creating "SUPAH BUILD" by discussing it on forums and completely skipping the "mistakes and imperfections" part.
Reading the forums, unlike respeccing, is not an in-game mechanic. Also, merely reading about and/or copying builds from other players doesn't make you skip the whole learning curve.

The only people it punishes are people like me, who don't rely on guides and tips on how to make a perfect build on day 1 of playing. Allowing players to switch out an ability or two doesn't "UNDERMINE" anything.
It renders the choices you made while building your character inconsequential. I don't know about you, but to me C&C is a pretty important aspect of RPGs. Besides, even if you don't care about C&C, respeccing could be abused to get benefit out of abilities/skills that don't need to be used more than a handful of times (crafting being the best example) to benefit the player for the entire game. You could put all your points into crafting, craft top tier gear and respec all those points into combat skills. There would no longer be any reason to pick skills based on their usefulness through the entire game, since you could just swap them for something else that is more useful at a given moment.
 

Twiglard

Poland Stronk
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
7,238
Location
Poland
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
The only people it punishes are people like me, who don't rely on guides and tips on how to make a perfect build on day 1 of playing.

Not at all. My original AR character entered DC at level 22-ish with the Oddity system and didn't max out till almost at the end. Didn't do the puzzle. Given there were 3 levels to go in theory (stat increases, feats, skills) you have plenty of room to make mistakes. Probably even more than my build that wasn't super-optimized either.

Yeah, I'm thinking of making a tech-junkie character in the grim darkness of the far future and try to craft stuff as early as Junkyard.

You won't have that much benefit crafting before Depot A is finished. Shields are way less useful against melee regardless of the modulator. Crafting shields to kill Ironheads easier (Rail Crossing) is definitely viable in my book. For Depot A just make lots of magnesium grenades if you can. The doggies love them, especially if you get out of line of sight afterward. Or can just evade all the spit-balls and put melee attackers on fire.

You have choices, though? The simplest would be to choose between the conflicting factions, Scrappers vs. Black Eels, Free Drones vs. Protectorate, Camp Hathor vs. Rathound King, and then you can choose between the three Oligarchs (JKK vs. Praetorian vs. Coretech).

Sort of. JKK is sort of useless unless liking random junk tailor materials. Praetorian I didn't take, explanation in a second. Coretech has great electronic gear (fusion cores, efficiency modulators) for the better middle of the game. Why not take Praetorian? The fascist United Stations dudes have even better quality gun parts. Drones have a junky inventory, no way to sell really (maybe except ammo), and maybe something like a good fabric to buy (kinda like JKK) every several restocks. So if you took Praetorian and fascists, that would have had too much overlap. The fascists also shed more light on overall world situation than Drones. America fuck yeah and all that.

So maybe something like a crossbow build could possibly benefit from JKK or Drones at all unlike most others. The Drones Slavic guy is great though, and he likes his women in the kitchen as it should be. I wonder if Kokoschka was meant to mean a hen.

It's not as much choices, but that you can finish the game with barely understanding anything. Or actually piece the events together, that requires having information to begin with. The backstory's decently sophisticated that you can piece together the big picture without knowing some little but significant details.

Not understanding anything example:
Who the hell is Six and why the fuck does he say I'm some Chosen One or something? Fuck him and let's get it over with. What a lame ending. DC sucks.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom