Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Black Angel]

There are two distinct points here:

1.) Oddity is tuned to be harder (slower leveling) than classic

2.) Oddity is something novel and adds to the exploration/gameplay experience

How does oddity add something substantial, beyond being a cool gimmick for the first run?

If I was gonna explore everything, going oddity doesn't change how I'll play in any way, except maybe making pickpocket more valuable (and being sad about the aforementioned drops, like pig snouts) .

I can see where you're coming from but your point only really applies to anyone who play the exact same kind of playstyle and took Oddity XP every time. For those who wants to play radically different kind of playstyle, either system works based on what kind of playstyle they want to play. For example, in my first 2 runs I use Oddity because they were subterfuge-oriented, with the only difference is that one is a jack-of-all-trades who tried to do a little bit of everything, while the other is mostly focused on PSI. On those 2 runs, I didn't experienced any of your described problems, since I'm perfectly okay with slower leveling and I'm not at all sad about low drops (except perhaps for my first run, since I haven't done some of the side-quests I was forced to grind for oddities in DC, and even then I don't have any problems with that).
Now, after doing subterfuge runs twice in a row, I'd like to play a zero stealth, *maybe* zero lockpicking/hacking, assault rifle-toting juggernaut in heavy armor. Obviously, the Oddity system wouldn't work as good as for characters more suited for exploration like stealthy-ones, so the classic system is the way to go, especially since an assault rifle-toting juggernaut will be facing combat head-on instead of avoiding them like a plague. Will the problem of getting to the max level earlier bothers me? Maybe. But I haven't yet experience such type of playstyle while using classic XP to the very end (only an aborted run after my laptop died for the nth time), so we'll see.

My point is that Oddity isn't just a cool gimmick for the first run. If your first run is on Oddity and it wasn't a rogue/thief kind of playstyle, then if you ever decided to try and play a thief who breaks into everyone's private room and rummage through their purse, you wouldn't be doing yourself justice by playing on classic XP. And not just thief playstyle, really, I think Oddity works perfectly for characters who specialized less in combat, like talky characters. Because, like I said, Oddity isn't just tuned to be harder like you said, it's also fine-tuned and much more supremely paced so that players can experience certain content *exactly* at the levels where they can find them still challenging, but not outright impossible either. And when I say content, I didn't mean it in just terms of combat. For example, since my first run hasn't done some of the side-quests, I was severely under-leveled by the time I get to the Institute and I was completely unable to face the Lunatics at the mall in combat. And thus, my only option here is to stealth through the crazies and try stealing the figurine without being detected. Along the way, I was able to get my hands on some of the oddities and leveled up once. Since it was a jack-of-all-trade character, it would be pointless trying to invest in any of the combat skills, but since I was decently invested in Stealth, I just put most of the points there and hope I can sneak easier now after leveling-up. Lo and behold, I WAS able to steal the figurine without being detected. I will not forget how my heart beating so fast as I put my character in a blind spot near the statue, click as fast as I can to the statue and then back to the blind spot, all before those Lunatics near it get their detection to orange, in real time.
Now, if this is classic XP, my only option would be to try and grind for a level or two *before* attempting to steal the figurine. Had I not leveled up that one time thanks to Oddity, the Lunatics would surely gets to orange detection and bumped into me.

 

[Parabalus]

If your first run is on Oddity and it wasn't a rogue/thief kind of playstyle, then if you ever decided to try and play a thief who breaks into everyone's private room and rummage through their purse, you wouldn't be doing yourself justice by playing on classic XP. And not just thief playstyle, really, I think Oddity works perfectly for characters who specialized less in combat, like talky characters.

But why? I don't break into rooms for Oddity XP, I do it because I'm curious what I'll find and it's fun.

It's not like classic doesn't give you XP for non-combat actions, you do get it from skill usage.

Along the way, I was able to get my hands on some of the oddities and leveled up once.
Now, if this is classic XP, my only option would be to try and grind for a level or two *before* attempting to steal the figurine. Had I not leveled up that one time thanks to Oddity, the Lunatics would surely gets to orange detection and bumped into me.

You c(w)ould have leveled up from lockpicking and hacking instead.

I played through with both, and just didn't experience this enhanced narrative due to Oddity that you did.

 

[FeelTheRads]

You have a small quota to fill but beyond that you can do what you like, skip as much combat as you want, etc.

So what you're saying is, being limited gives you more freedom?

And how do you know when you can skip combat? Since you can get oddities as drops from enemies?
So, seems like you can get into a lot of "brain dead grind". And not only combat grind too. Boy, grinding every trashcan for oddities is sure a lot of intellectually stimulating gameplay, unlike those dumbfucks grinding in combat.

And as @Black Angel has said, what is the point of being so tremendously overleveled so early and have nothing left for DC? Oddity is supremely paced.

In that case maybe it's a pacing thing and the classic system can be paced in a similar way?

It's just that it was much easier to balance this one.

And then it turned out it's great for hipsters and POE lovers. Those that think that somehow pretty much every RPG got it wrong by giving XP for combat. The "I want to play RPGs but it would be great if they didn't play like RPGs" crowd.

I don't break into rooms for Oddity XP

Somehow that's not griding, apparently.

 

[Parabalus]

And then it turned out it's great for hipsters and POE lovers. Those that think that somehow pretty much every RPG got it wrong by giving XP for combat. The "I want to play RPGs but it would be great if they didn't play like RPGs" crowd.

This is a funny point, since the Oddity XP from combat is extremely similar to the PoE XP from bestiary, yet the latter is bashed and the former praised.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

better, since no low % drop oddities

Nearly all the low drop rate oddities only give you a trivial amount of XP anyway so it doesn't really matter. Even if you don't get a single dog collar/mask fragment/filled tooth/fluorescent snout you still won't be missing much. You don't need to farm for them any more than you need to farm every respawning rathound on classic.

 

[Black Angel]

But why? I don't break into rooms for Oddity XP, I do it because I'm curious what I'll find and it's fun.

It's not like classic doesn't give you XP for non-combat actions, you do get it from skill usage.

And that's where mindset came in, I supposed. I, too, don't break into rooms for Oddity XP. I break into rooms to find stuff, secrets or not. I stumbled upon the oddities as I do that, and that's why Oddity is also better for Underrail. Because the oddities are sprinkled here and there, so characters just level naturally and (most of the time) don't find themselves hit the level cap before the Institute.

And classic giving XP for non-combat actions is just not the same. I've only experienced classic XP up until Core City, but I'm sure everyone didn't consciously try leveling up solely by performing non-combat actions while playing classic. Nobody in their right mind would actually try playing a less-combative character with classic XP, I'd say.

You c(w)ould have leveled up from lockpicking and hacking instead.

I played through with both, and just didn't experience this enhanced narrative due to Oddity that you did.

Again, it's not the same. The amount of XP that lockpicking and hacking gives you during classic is so negligible compared to just shooting everything that moves, while the XP gained through oddities using the system are much more natural, albeit resulted in slower leveling than classic. But I think it's not that Oddity levels slower; but that classic levels much faster because the game is much more combat-oriented than it is exploration-oriented.

And I didn't say anything about narrative being enhanced by Oddity. It's just my personal experience having finished the game twice with it, but even you could agree that Styg designed the whole game around Oddity, no? And that's what I mean. You don't level slower or faster on Oddity, everything happens naturally because, well, the devs focused more on that system.

In that case maybe it's a pacing thing and the classic system can be paced in a similar way?

That's indeed the point. However, the way I see it (like I mentioned before) it all comes down to what kind of builds you want to play. If you're going to play a combat-focused characters, then it's better to play classic because that's your long term goal (to become better at combat), and thus it doesn't really matter if you're going to hit level cap sooner or later. If you're going to play a character less-focused on combat, and more invested in non-combat gameplay like subterfuge or diplomacy, then Oddity is better to help compensate the fact that you'll be skipping combat encounters (either through sneaking or talking).

Yes, the final boss fight means the character *needs* to invest in combat anyway, but it's not like you're going to play full pacifist from the start. I'm pretty sure anyone good enough at Underrail would know not to forgo combat skills completely. Besides, there are already tools provided to help less-combative characters to deal with the final boss, like the mutagen puzzle and/or destroying the mutagen tanks.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Now, after doing subterfuge runs twice in a row, I'd like to play a zero stealth, *maybe* zero lockpicking/hacking, assault rifle-toting juggernaut in heavy armor.

I've been thinking of doing such a run, but wouldn't you miss a lot of content that way?

 

[ciox]

My last two characters were like that, it's not so bad provided you are strong on the offense.

 

[Black Angel]

I've been thinking of doing such a run, but wouldn't you miss a lot of content that way?

Maybe you'll miss the secret faction since that one is one of the only two factions that requires almost zero combat (the other one is JKK of Core City). Even the scientific departments of the Institute can be done even if you're combat-focused character, IMO, so you wouldn't miss too much.

And if you mean if you don't have lockpicking/hacking, well, I couldn't really remember any content that's completely gated by them, and you can almost always get your hands on keys/keycards from dead bodies/some place else.

 

[Strange Fellow]

What it boils down to for me is that the dopamine high of finding an oddity enhances the fun of exploration, and combat in Underrail, unlike in PoE, doesn't need stimuli in the form of XP to be rewarding. That's enough of a reason for me to pick it even with a combat-focused character. Besides, there are plenty of oddities to strip off corpses.

 

[Parabalus]

The other side of the coin is that exploration in Underrail doesn't need stimuli in the form of Oddities to be rewarding.

 

[oneself]

You should do one run with oddities. Too many is tedious.

 

[Trashos]

I will join the Oddity system fans. It is the best system I have seen in this type of game. Exploration becomes even better than what it already is, and the game's difficulty is much better balanced with it. (It *is* supposed to be a challenging game that requires planning ahead in higher difficulties)

That said, I am not 100% happy with the leveling pace later in the game. Pace is quick in the beginning, but once we hit the 30 points requirement it becomes kinda slow. For example, at that point (and having already done the basic exploration of the big cities) I may explore large areas for a while and only find, say, 3 oddities. That's only 10% of the requirement to get to the next level, and it feels too slow. It is not bad, it's great, but it is not perfect.

 

[Jezal_k23]

"herp derp fuck the oddity system it's not realistic, why do I get xp from train tickets??"

WHO GIVES A SHIT????????????

I realize it's not realistic. FUCK IT. Do you want THE BEST GAMEPLAY or not? Do you want to have a lot more fun and a great time playing the game?

Then use the oddity system. DO IT.

JUST FUCKING DO IT.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Oddity incentivizes risky play (going to areas where you're underpowered to get some oddities out of lockers/etc.). Combat doesn't. I prefer the former.

 

[Yosharian]

So Oddity is balanced better than the regular system?

 

[Jezal_k23]

Of whatever complaints people might have about the oddity system, lack of realism is the most retarded.

Like, what's wrong? Are you a storyfag of some sort?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Of whatever complaints people might have about the oddity system, lack of realism is the most retarded.

Like, what's wrong? Are you a storyfag of some sort?

I'm a storyfag and I like the oddity system

 

[Sykar]

Of whatever complaints people might have about the oddity system, lack of realism is the most retarded.

Like, what's wrong? Are you a storyfag of some sort?

I do not see it as any less "unrealistic" as classic XP. I mean how much experience do you REALLY get after you have killed another mangy rathound for the 123rd time?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Who the hell even said anything about realism?

The worst thing about it is in fact that it's way more grind inducing than classic XP. I can't imagine how one can say that it prevents grinding when by its very design it does the exact opposite. Everything you do could give you some XP. But only "could". So most of the time you don't even get rewarded for the grind. It's just all around SHIT.

But hey, it's BANALCED!!! Must be great.

 

[Sykar]

Who the hell even said anything about realism?

The worst thing about it is in fact that it's way more grind inducing than classic XP. I can't imagine how one can say that it prevents grinding when by its very design it does the exact opposite. Everything you do could give you some XP. But only "could". So most of the time you don't even get rewarded for the grind. It's just all around SHIT.

But hey, it's BANALCED!!! Must be great.

There is little to no grind during Oddity, stop spouting bullshit. Except for less than a handful of Oddities you have like 30%-50% drop chances, in some cases you get guaranteed drops like Ancient Rathound Tooth. Furthermore most oddities from creatures are capped usually at 2-3. There are like three which offer 4 and some offer only one. The most annoying to get is the Cave Hopper Dragon Tail and you can easily go without.
What is more Oddity CAPS the experience you can gain and even if you miss a creature oddity or two you will get to max level still because so much more is gained from quests and exploration that the gains from creatures is overall low. In some cases you will be almost guaranteed to get most if not all oddities like the Serrated Bladeling Blades during the Beast quest, PSI Beetles can be easily gotten during Newton and Arena quest, Same goes for Rathounds, in GMC, Burrowers are easily gotten from Hathor Mine and Arena. Siphoners is the only real annoying one because of the low drop chance and because they are not really tied to a particular quest and the drop chances are low. But even missing out all 4 experience points from Siphoners, it is a miniscule amount compared to the hundreds of experience points you get from everything else.
So literally Oddity DISCOURAGES grind and invites exploration.

 

[roshan]

I tried oddity on my first run through the game and loved it, probably wouldn't do it again though as I found the pacing of leveling up on classic much better.

 

[track02]

Is level 25 the norm for finishing the game?
I ended at barely 22 and felt like I'd explored a huge amount but maybe I've missed quite a bit (?), the only thing I know I didn't fully complete was the protectorate stuff at Fort Apogee

 

[Black Angel]

The other side of the coin is that exploration in Underrail doesn't need stimuli in the form of Oddities to be rewarding.

Again, I don't think many around here says anything about Oddity being a stimuli to explore. At least, I don't think it that way. Just that the system is more prioritized by the devs to give players overall better experience, in that players would be at the levels where they can face the next content at appropriate time and place, instead of being severely underleveled or vastly outleveled. You play the game, you go explore places, you get loot as rewards AND level up from doing it. Basically, killing two birds with one stone. Yeah, you could also do that with classic. But, again, I still think Oddity works better for characters less-specialized in combat, while classic is the go-to if you're going to shoot everything that moves, with zero talking and/or sneaking.

That said, I am not 100% happy with the leveling pace later in the game. Pace is quick in the beginning, but once we hit the 30 points requirement it becomes kinda slow. For example, at that point (and having already done the basic exploration of the big cities) I may explore large areas for a while and only find, say, 3 oddities. That's only 10% of the requirement to get to the next level, and it feels too slow. It is not bad, it's great, but it is not perfect.

But, assuming you've done all the side content up until that point and is now heading to the Institute, that place alone has enough leveling up past level 20, but not up until the level cap, at least ~30 points worth of oddities from the quests you can do there alone (and the oddities you could find along the way as you progress through the quests can help with leveling closer and closer to the cap). So I think the pace is still right, all the way until the end. Because even if you haven't hit the cap by the time you go down to DC, you could easily hit the cap by simply doing all the things there is to do down there.

 

[Wunderbar]

Is level 25 the norm for finishing the game?
I ended at barely 22 and felt like I'd explored a huge amount but maybe I've missed quite a bit (?), the only thing I know I didn't fully complete was the protectorate stuff at Fort Apogee

I completely missed Protectorate/Free drones, went to Deep Caverns at 23, finished at 25 (classic mode).