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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Discussion in 'Underrail' started by Blaine, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Well yeah but that is single target. Wiping out a group of organic brains is quite a bit more satisfying imho. And it is dirt cheap.
     
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  2. Black Angel Arcane

    Black Angel
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    Just fucking murdered the Dajjal by stacking... dunno, 20 staccs? Maybe less but definitely close to that, of Temporal Distortion.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    As you can see, need a psi headband with TD neuroscope and muffler to increase TD damage and reduce TM psi cost to effectively pull it off.

    What I did:
    1. Start with stealth. Carefully approach a spot right before Tchort's true sight detect me. Though in hindsight, could probably drink Root Soda before going down the ladder, *if* the Mouth's monologue didn't waste it first.
    2. Initiate combat, then Premeditate + LoC -> Enrage to distract the tentacles
    3. Cast an Electrokinetic Imprint right in front of me to get rid of the Mouth. Could be probably skip right to the next step
    4. Rush right to the tile in front of Tchort, then cast Force Field to prevent the psionic tentacle to mess with me any further because it's immune to Enrage and TC's status effect in general
    5. Inject adrenaline shot + psycho-temporal acceleration, psi booster when needed, then start stacking TD
    6. End turn, and when TD only got 1 turn left put Tchort in Stasis to further stack TD on him
    7. It was a close call because after Force Field is down and adrenaline expires, there's a chance I could get fucked by the tentacles before I can pull it off, but luckily after nearly 20 stacks I got to watch some fireworks.
    With this one I solved the mutagen puzzle and inject it to them, eliminating 4 out of 7 tentacles. But I still need to distract non-psionic tentacles with Enrage. Tried to do it while there's all of the tentacles but found I'll die or lose too much health before I could hide myself behind Force Field. And even then, they would probably rape me if I didn't solve the mutagen puzzle before I finished stacking TD/before the stacks expires.
    Also, I skipped trying to destroy the mutagen tanks just to see if I could pull it off. And pulled it off, I did.
     
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  3. ItsChon Resident Zoomer Patron

    ItsChon
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    I will be making an SMG/Throwing Special Forces build. Should be pretty standard tbh. I want to try incorporating throwing knives, but I have a hard time imaging that it'll be more efficient/effective than just using single shots to finish off low health enemies. Anyone have any tips or ideas for dominating?
     
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  4. Sheepherder Scholar

    Sheepherder
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    I'm playing a char with 5mm smg 8AP bursts build with fatal throw. I haven't gotten to fatal throw yet, but the idea is that in the endgame at 18 dex a knife trow costs 10 AP and a kill refreshes 18 AP +9 AP from spec. So I'd get 2 extra bursts from a single knife kill, once per turn. Plus another 9 AP from commando spec.
    So with haste and native cocaine I get 121 effective AP plus a free burst from commando. That's around 14 bursts and 126 bullets at 9 bullets per burst.
    Fatal throw is only good at high dex and I don't yet know how often it'll actually be useful in combat.
     
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  5. ItsChon Resident Zoomer Patron

    ItsChon
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    Ah, very interesting. I don't think I've really played a super high Dex build so I didn't realize that the burst would get so low. LMK how it plays out, as I have some time before I have to commit one way or the other.
     
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  6. Black Angel Arcane

    Black Angel
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  7. ItsChon Resident Zoomer Patron

    ItsChon
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    What is the general plan with the build? You have recklessness, survival instincts and cheap shot early so it seems like you want to focus on making a crit spear, but you save critical power till level 24? I guess the high CON is there so when you get low to proc your survival instincts, you won't be too squishy? But you also said you're considering swapping out survival instincts with last stand, so no crit?

    Assuming you're just going for a general spear build, not too tanky or too mobile, I feel like 9 CON is overkill, especially since you only really need it for Survival Instincts, which doesn't really synergize too well with Spears imo. I'd switch to Conditioning over Survival Instincts as I think the general damage reduction will serve you better than the increased crit chance. I knocked my CON down to 7 in my build which would be a difference of around 100 health and 2% less damage reduction from Conditioning. I put those points into AGI and INT but it's up to you and how you want to play your Spear dude. I placed a heavier focus on having a ton of movement points and being able to run around a lot, versus focusing more on tankiness. I also don't know why you decided to go into Evasion? I don't really like dodge and/or evasion builds, especially if you're not going to benefit from the Nimble buff when you're at 0% armor penalty. The Energy shields you craft at around level 15 and up will be more than enough to deal with powerful ranged opponents, especially as you don't really run into any until after Junkyard. Once I got my main energy shield at level 20 or so, somewhere around 1700-2000 capacity, I could literally waltz through the Arke Power Station and handle everything with ease (taking some care to avoid getting too surrounded).

    You also left Spear Throw to level 14? Which I'd say is a definite no go, as it's a big source of damage early on and otherwise you'll be maxing throwing for just Grenades. You also specialized really heavily in Shield Arm and left out Spear Guardian, which is a mistake I think. Spear Guardian by itself with two specialization points increases your black chance to 100%. Add in Fend with some specialization points to lower the action point cost, and you have a 100% block chance at super low cost. At max specialization it's only 9 or 10 AP to get Fend with 100% chance to block. It blocks something around 80-100 damage, and you can get that much higher if you put Spec points into it. Looking at my shield build, I took Shield Arm, but I don't remember whether or not melee damage that is higher than the amount you can get blocked bypasses your spear block, or if the extra damage rolls over and has a chance of being blocked by your shield. If it rolls or bypasses your spear block, it would be worth it to get Shield Arm, but if let's say the 150 damage melee attack just gets 80 of it blocked and the rest hits with no chance of being picked up by the shield, than drop the feat, as you'll already be at 100% block chance without it.

    Other than that it comes down to personal preference. You don't have Grenadier which is fine, but I thought it was invaluable, especially in the early game, as the build doesn't really ramp up all the way until level 18-20, and dealing with large swarms of enemies early might be rough. Here is a rough outline of my build below.

    http://underrail.info.tm/build/?Hgw...KmfMKeGsKtwp1twqDCn2zis4UF4rOOAuKzogPit6YF378

    It's rather flexible though, and you can change up certain feats depending on how you want them. If you wanted to optimize it you'd probably drop Strider and the AGI at levels 26 and 28, and just go into Strength, but I enjoyed the high movement speed and didn't have any problems in regards to dealing damage playing on Hard. Let me know if you have any questions or need info.
     
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  8. Black Angel Arcane

    Black Angel
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    Now that you mentioned it, I don't really have any 'general plan'. I just want to play a Spear-n'-Shield Spartan. But if I'm to say what I want, I want to hit hard and hit fast, but still able tank a bit. So yeah, crits are probably what I want. The reason why I took Critical Power at lvl 24 is because I want to focus more on more non-crit capabilities at earlier levels, especially since I want to take Iron Grip at level 16 to immediately begin speccing into it AND Shield Arm after, but I probably should take it earlier. Maybe I won't replace Survival Instinct with Last Stand, after all. But it won't be useful without Armor Sloping to reduce armor penalty if I want to hit fast.

    Aye. 9 CON is not only overkill, it also won't synergize well without using heavier armors to capitalize on tanking. And yet I won't be able to take Armor Sloping with 6 INT without sacrificing STR. I'll knock CON down to 7 and distribute its points somewhere. Probably AGI to get more MP and maybe to pass some environmental AGI check. Conditioning is preferable as well, I probably would have it replace Boarding Up since this feat only works for multiple hits like with swords and daggers. But I still want to take Armor Sloping so I can reduce armor penalty to help with mobility... guess not after all.
    I put points into Evasion because even though it's not too useful against regular ranged attacks, at least it helps in reducing AoE damage. And because I'm not sure where to put those points because I'm thinking of playing zero subterfuge. Maybe I'll put those free points from CON to AGI to also helps with Evasion, on top of mobility?

    Yeah, you're right. Now that I'm dropping Survival Instinct and get CON 7 instead, I've put Spear Throw at level 2.
    The reason why I max spec into Shield Arm because I really want to capitalize on shield play, but yeah I replaced Survival Instinct with Spear Guardian instead. And since "Block chance from different sources does not stack. Each block chance is rolled separately against blockable attacks." and "Multiple different blocks can trigger against a single attack, in which case their amount blocked stacks additively." might as well not speccing into Shield Arm but still take it and re-allocate those points into Spear Guardian and (I guess) Spear Throw. Or Fend as you suggested it.

    Hey man, thanks a lot for your feedback. Looking at your build it's an all-rounder focused on mobility with 10 AGI + Strider, hence why it needs 7 INT for Power Management. I guess I'll go with this
    http://underrail.info.tm/build/?Hg8...Cr8KCBkvCqsK2fHjis44C4rOiA-KzpAPit4kC4remBd-_
    Hit hard and hit fast, while still able to tank a bit. I switched Cheap Shot with Expose Weakness because the latter is more valuable early game, Critical Power at lvl 22 because I want to focus more on non-crit capabilities during earlier levels. And since I'm not going to take Armor Sloping, INT 5 instead and that one point either into STR for more damage or AGI for a bit more mobility and helps with effective Evasion.
    The only thing that sticks like a sore thumb here is Shield Bash. I *REALLY* want to play Spear-n'-Shield Spartan like in 300.... maybe I'll re-allocate the spec points from Spear Throw (range) into Shield Bash (Action Points)?
     
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  9. ItsChon Resident Zoomer Patron

    ItsChon
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    That was essentially the goal of my build. It could take a decent beating, while also having a ton of movements points and an ability to maneuver around the battlefield.
    I originally had Armor Sloping as a feat I took, but it was only like 5% difference in armor penalty to me. Using a Sturdy Vest with Kevlar cloth, the Riot Gear was still only around 40% armor penalty, which really isn't too bad once you get some high quality springs and factor in Nimble. As for the evasion, if you have free skill points why not I guess, though you could also put them towards crafting and social skills as well and just have them maxed out at all times versus juggling them to reach crafting and speech requirements.
    Oh yeah, make sure you spec into Spear Throw's AP reduction, as it's vital to getting in the most damage in per turn. You want to be able to auto attack twice and than spear throw. I personally didn't really use Fend all that much outside of spamming it as I ran around so I'd start my first turn with it on, but I know Blaine loved it when making his spear build.
    Like I said, if you wanted to make the build optimal you'd want to just put one of the +1 Stat upgrades and the Veteran feat towards Strength, which would put it at 15, only one under your original 16, but yeah. As for power management, I didn't really bother with shield bash so I had a free feat and figured the extra 300-400 capacity would be more useful than just putting another point into strength. Up to personal preference though. As for Shield Bash, you're never going to proc it if you're using Spears, unless you purposefully avoid taking Shield Guardian. Even than, it's very likely your base spear chance to block will interfere with your shields chance to block, as I'm pretty sure you can't max your shields chance to block anywhere close to a 100%. If you really want to make it work, I'm sure you can, but it'll definitely be less than optimal.
     
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  10. Black Angel Arcane

    Black Angel
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    Wait, what? Shield Bash is an active ability, why would it not proc when using spears with Iron Grip?
    Also, you must've misunderstood blocking mechanic in the game. In any wiki page like spears and riot gears where they can explain blocking mechanic:
    Means base spear chance to block will *not* interfere with shield chance to block, because each block chance is rolled separately against blockable attacks, multiple different blocks can trigger against a single attack. So, for example, if an enemy tries to attack you with a blockable melee attack, and you have a spear and shield, both of them CAN block against that blockable melee attack.
     
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  11. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    How high do you want your PER for shotgun on DOM?

    Thinking that because of Leading Shot you get can by with <18, but unsure how low.
     
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  12. Telemetry Educated Patron

    Telemetry
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    How do you get the GMS keycard for Gorsky without lockpicking? Am I retarded or is it not possible?
     
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  13. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    The key to that locker is according to Sully
    Show Spoiler
    on one of the corpses you encounter before you fight or interact with the raiders
     
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  14. Telemetry Educated Patron

    Telemetry
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    Show Spoiler
    I thought he meant somewhere on the first level but it was literally 10 squares to the right, thank you!
     
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  15. ItsChon Resident Zoomer Patron

    ItsChon
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    Well, I figured Shield Bash triggers based off how much damage your Shield blocks. If you have 100% chance to block with your Spear, your shield won't be blocking any damage with your shield, which means you won't have any damage to return. But, looking at the wiki entry you linked, I see now that I interpreted it wrong. So it IS possible to block, for example 150 melee damage, with 90 of said block coming from the Spear and 60 of said block coming from the shield. Makes sense because I DID take Shield Arm for a reason, so I guess I'm just tripping.
     
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  16. Fenix Cipher Vatnik

    Fenix
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    Since I had no internet no computer for more than month, memory got rust a bit.

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]


    Here is my guy, 14 Per and as I vaguely remember I considered it TOO high, and I made mistake whan built this char - I should get 7 Str instead, and add Per with veteran perk, now I should wait for Full Auto till actual endgame. Which is sucks.
    I think even 12 Pr will be fine.
     
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  17. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    I saw your build on the UR forums, that's the main reason I asked, the low PER surprised me.

    With my sword guy even with 400 melee against some mobs I didn't have 95% THC, but never played guns on DOM before.

    I started with 75631036 so I can still decide if I want to try tin can or nimble.
     
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  18. Sheepherder Scholar

    Sheepherder
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    Any particular reason for 6 AGI and 6 INT? AGI for Sprint in case you go metal armour?
    I personally went for 18 PER and leading shot for MAX DAMAGE and because I used shortened shotguns, but I think 11 PER (for scrutinous) is good enough if you get leading shot earlier.
    Also, don't bother with Perfect Scattering, it's shit as it's a flat damage bonus that's not modified by any multipliers.
     
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  19. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    For Premed and Sprint, yeah.

    I'll prob end up with 8 5 6 3 17 3 6 (never played tin), but if PER can really go that low there's more flexibility. Did you find 18 PER to be enough to detect stuff, preferably without Paranoia?

    Perfect scattering def seems like extreme garbage, it looks to be negligible even at low levels, where you can't even take it yet.
     
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  20. Sheepherder Scholar

    Sheepherder
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    Do you think tin can will work with 3 con and psi hp penalty, even on a ranged build? Metal armor implies that you plan on tanking damage, but your lvl30 HP will be at around 350 with sturdy vest.
    I think 11 PER is good if you don't use shortened shotguns as those get an accuracy penalty. Some mid-game enemies might be bit challenging, but not too much. 17 PER def. good enough for shortened shotguns.
    With 18 PER I detected all of the traps and secrets. Dunno about enemies, I either remember their exact position by heart and just throw a flare or use loud explosives to lure them out and then toss a flare.
     
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  21. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    Well it's either tin or infused rat, everything else seems worse. I don't plan to play much differently, but I never tried maxxed out tin so I'm curious.
     
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  22. Sheepherder Scholar

    Sheepherder
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    Did the whole arena at lvl16 without reloads. Even if I use only 5 mm, it's still an SMG build, so no surprises there. Got lucky when taser worked on Carnifex, but if he resisted the stun, I would stall with forcefield and try again with either taser or net. Might have been able to do it at 14, if I switched some feats around.



    Rat is love, rat is life. Best armor. Sick of looking at it though.
    Metal armor might be good if you reduce PER and get STR to 9 for tugsten and CON to at least 7 for juggernaut. Also, to proc Barrel stare you'll need to run up to enemies, so it might not be as useful with low MP due to high armor penalty.
     
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  23. ItsChon Resident Zoomer Patron

    ItsChon
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    Legendary video, kind of makes me wish I went into TM for this SMG build I'm doing. Why were you getting opportunist procs tho?
     
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  24. Sheepherder Scholar

    Sheepherder
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    Suppressive Fire slows targets for 1 turn. Works with all Burst weapons.
    Edit: Get TM while you can, because Styg is gonna nerf it soon.
     
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  25. Fenix Cipher Vatnik

    Fenix
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    Shotguns have Leading Shot, AND lotsa buckshots(?) in the shell. Some will hit anyway, just less or more % depending on Per score.

    And Fragmented Chaos doesn't work at all or with Critical Power.
    I mean, just test damage at SGS shooting range before and after taking it.

    I spent few hours at shooting range at SGS, and even with 12 Per short shotguns better. Well, maybe with 13 Per.

    I think it's least valuable feat, but sometimes some enemies can run to you haha, here is your Barrel Stare proc.
     
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