Fallout Underwhelmed by Fallout :(

[Sykar]

Gore and critical descriptions.

As I said, got old for me really fast.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Which gimmicks? The death scenes? Get old fast. Really fast. What else? The "I punch once with my Sledgehammer and guy flies across the entire screen" gimmick? Annoying at best.

Still haven't for me and I finished it more than 7 times.

 

[tuluse]

SRR was build on less resources relatively speaking with primary focus on the editor. The campaign was a goodie, nothing else, and that's how most of the backers wanted it.

Well ok, but then you would agree when you have game 1 that offers lots of things to do with terrible combat and game 2 that offers only combat with average combat, one person might like game 1 more and complain about combat in game 2 more?

 

[Lurker King]

I've been playing a little F1 on Steam recently. The UI feels like part of the world, writing is compact and descriptive, combat is punchy, it's great! Inventory may not be the best, but this game isn't nearly as obsessed with trash items as a Bethesda game, so it's ok.

One of the main qualities of FO1 it is unbeatable elegance. Look at its skills. So simple, but so effective!

 

[Sykar]

SRR was build on less resources relatively speaking with primary focus on the editor. The campaign was a goodie, nothing else, and that's how most of the backers wanted it.

Well ok, but then you would agree when you have game 1 that offers lots of things to do with terrible combat and game 2 that offers only combat with average combat, one person might like game 1 more and complain about combat in game 2 more?

That wasn't my point. SRR was just one example of a game which does combat significantly better, but if you want to go that road, Dragonfall is not far behind in terms of story and C&C while also improving several technical aspects. Nevermind that the game was never even remotely as buggy as FO 1 or FO 2 plus has a pretty strong editor. If the trend continues with HK we will have a really good platform this year for user made Shadowrun games, a luxury we do not have for Fallout.

I've been playing a little F1 on Steam recently. The UI feels like part of the world, writing is compact and descriptive, combat is punchy, it's great! Inventory may not be the best, but this game isn't nearly as obsessed with trash items as a Bethesda game, so it's ok.

One of the main qualities of FO1 it is unbeatable elegance. Look at its skills. So simple, but so effective!

Most skills were outright useless or gimmicky (Traps, Big Guns, Stealth, Barter, Steal, etc.) and only a selected few had major impact (Small Guns, Energy Weapons, Speech, Lockpick). Same goes for traits and perks. On top of that, many skills could be gotten to 100% easily through abusing skill books which were readily available for purchase in the Hub on a regular basis.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Big guns are certainly not useless, they're viable in Fallout (Minigun and Rocket Launcher) and the best weapon skill in Fallout 2 (Bozar and Vindicator Minigun). I also found stealth useful for an unarmed char playthrough for sneaking up on fleeing enemies (before they go off screen).

 

[TripJack]

big gunz are best gunz

wish i could do that to this thread

 

[tuluse]

Most skills were outright useless or gimmicky (Traps, Big Guns, Stealth, Barter, Steal, etc.)

You don't know this game very well it seems.

Stealth and steal is a viable path for almost every quest.

 

[Athelas]

One of the main qualities of FO1 it is unbeatable elegance. Look at its skills. So simple, but so effective!

 

[Infinitron]

Kinda funny how encountering Wasteland has suddenly turned the Fallout cult into skill system aesthetes who admire "elegance".

Just the first step on the road to G*D, Roguey would say!

 

[Athelas]

Hmm, I've been taking a look at the formulas behind skills and I never realized how much improvements Fallout 2 makes to them. In Fallout 1, the effect that attributes had on your skills was practically non-existent, in Fallout 2 they've been beefed up significantly.

Compare:

Small Guns:
5 + 4 * AG [Fallout 2]
35 + AG [Fallout 1]


Speech:
5 * CH [Fallout 2]
25 + 2 * CH [Fallout 1]

More ammunition for the 'Fallout 2 is the better RPG' camp.

Though the small guns example is kinda useless since you have to be actively gimping your character to not be maxing Agility in either game. But pretty much every skill is more dependent on attributes in Fallout 2 compared to Fallout 1.

 

[sgm]

and the game ends... which was not a good decision but something made to shorten the development and push the game out.

Not true. At GDC 2012 Tim Cain stated that the time limit for the water chip quest was controversial within the team from its inception all the way until they shipped and that's why they eventfully patched it out. Nothing to do with the schedule. And I still disagree with their decision as any player with experience with the game knows that a high Survival skill and Pathfinder perks lets you finish the game well bellow the time limit without having to play the locations "out of order" (i.e. destroying Mariposa first). Hell I finished the game under 80 days with a Survival build and even went to the Glow. I don't understand this need to experience everything in one playthrough. I like playing Fallout as a loner-moron that everybody hates and makes fun of. I like playing as a pacifist that tries his best not to get blood on his hands even though an insane mutant wants to dip my whole vault-family in a tub of green goop. And I like the urgency of knowing that if I don't hurry, my vault will die and my game is over.

 

[roshan]

One of the main qualities of FO1 it is unbeatable elegance. Look at its skills. So simple, but so effective!

This is sarcasm, right?

Fallout tards really need to stop spewing bullshit about their game, I mean this shit has been going on for close to two decades now.

Almost all skills in Fallout are completely useless (I've played everything except Military Base, Glow and Cathedral). Traps? None in the game, you will find a couple in the hub which don't even damage you when you set them off, and it's used in the glow. Repair? Useless except for once at Necropolis. Science? Again useless except I think to talk to the farmer in Shady Sands. First aid and doctor, useless as well, they barely even have any effect. Gambling? This fucking joke of a skill usually isn't even checked when you gamble.

Fallout 2 improved on the usefulness of skills significantly. There are more uses for traps in the Temple of Trials alone than all of the above skills in Fallout 1. It's quite weird, all these years I thought Fallout 2 had a broken skill system filled with useless skills but now that I've played the predecessor all I can do is admire it.

 

[hiver]

Tim Cain stated that the time limit for the water chip quest was controversial within the team from its inception all the way until they shipped and that's why they eventfully patched it out.

Tim Cain stated that it was patched out because it was not popular and a lot of "fans" complained about it. Im sure it was a matter of debate in the team too.

I am not really sure how it came to be in the first place, maybe they just didnt think about it much and just did it to get that sense of urgency.

But i would like to think they maybe had better and deeper and wider ideas about it all, only couldn't do it because the game was rushed out of the door so that the company can return to the high profits and glory of action console games. And we all know how that ended.

And I like the urgency of knowing that if I don't hurry, my vault will die and my game is over.

The Vault could die but that did not have to be the end of the game.

You could simply live with those consequences and search for vengeance against those mutants which would lead you to Master.

 

[tuluse]

More 'Fallout 2 is the better RPG' camp.

No one is really arguing that Fallout 1 was mechanically superior to 2. I think most people could agree that Fallout 2 made the bad skills a little better and was slightly more balanced.

 

[Athelas]

More 'Fallout 2 is the better RPG' camp.

No one is really arguing that Fallout 1 was mechanically superior to 2. I think most people could agree that Fallout 2 made the bad skills a little better and was slightly more balanced.

From earlier in this thread:

not a lot of innovation over and above the core FO. They didn't do anything to balance out the SPECIAL system.

The character system also was described as 'elegant' just now.

 

[tuluse]

More 'Fallout 2 is the better RPG' camp.

No one is really arguing that Fallout 1 was mechanically superior to 2. I think most people could agree that Fallout 2 made the bad skills a little better and was slightly more balanced.

From earlier in this thread:

not a lot of innovation over and above the core FO. They didn't do anything to balance out the SPECIAL system.

The character system also was described as 'elegant' just now.

Ok, you got me. One post in a 29 page thread says they didn't do anything to balance it.

It still had shitty balance even with the changes.

 

[Athelas]

More 'Fallout 2 is the better RPG' camp.

No one is really arguing that Fallout 1 was mechanically superior to 2. I think most people could agree that Fallout 2 made the bad skills a little better and was slightly more balanced.

From earlier in this thread:

not a lot of innovation over and above the core FO. They didn't do anything to balance out the SPECIAL system.

The character system also was described as 'elegant' just now.

Ok, you got me. One post in a 29 page thread says they didn't do anything to balance it.

Maybe everyone assumed they didn't change the underlying formulas (much) and therefore didn't bring it up. I sure did.

 

[Sykar]

Most skills were outright useless or gimmicky (Traps, Big Guns, Stealth, Barter, Steal, etc.)

You don't know this game very well it seems.

Stealth and steal is a viable path for almost every quest.

I have beaten the game multiple times. You can finish Fallout 1 with a character who has 10 Charisma, 1-4 Endurance, Perception, Strength and Luck with only skill perks so that argument is pretty weak. All you need for combat is a good Agility score to have sufficient Action Points, 8 is already enough and up your combat skill to 125-150. Done. You can ignore everything else.

big gunz are best gunz

wish i could do that to this thread

Turbo Plasma Rifle with Fast Shot trait and Bonus Rate of Fire perk >> Flame Thrower. But hey, you can beat the game with a SMG if you fancy that.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

This is sarcasm, right?

Fallout tards really need to stop spewing bullshit about their game, I mean this shit has been going on for close to two decades now.

Almost all skills in Fallout are completely useless (I've played everything except Military Base, Glow and Cathedral). Traps? None in the game, you will find a couple in the hub which don't even damage you when you set them off, and it's used in the glow. Repair? Useless except for once at Necropolis. Science? Again useless except I think to talk to the farmer in Shady Sands.

So, you were in all places except ancient technological dungeons?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Gore and critical descriptions.

As I said, got old for me really fast.

The novelty has worn off for me and it just became a standard thing that I find sorely missing in other cRPGs.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Which gimmicks? The death scenes? Get old fast. Really fast. What else? The "I punch once with my Sledgehammer and guy flies across the entire screen" gimmick? Annoying at best.

Still haven't for me and I finished it more than 7 times.

Sykar has already revealed himself as a dumbfuck, all he needs is the tag.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Hmm, I've been taking a look at the formulas behind skills and I never realized how much improvements Fallout 2 makes to them. In Fallout 1, the effect that attributes had on your skills was practically non-existent, in Fallout 2 they've been beefed up significantly.

Compare:

Small Guns:
5 + 4 * AG [Fallout 2]
35 + AG [Fallout 1]


Speech:
5 * CH [Fallout 2]
25 + 2 * CH [Fallout 1]

For all the times i played both, i never knew that CHA doesn't influence speech checks, only serve as a multiplier. Always put my diplo char 8-9 zone, but now you tell me it was kinda uselessly spent points? Can i effectively convince Master to off himself with CHA 1?
Are there not actual checks that look for CHA? How bout INT? I also believed that some of the dialogues only appear within certain threshold of INT. Or is it also only a multiplier for some skills and number of skill points per level?

 

[Athelas]

Hmm, I've been taking a look at the formulas behind skills and I never realized how much improvements Fallout 2 makes to them. In Fallout 1, the effect that attributes had on your skills was practically non-existent, in Fallout 2 they've been beefed up significantly.

Compare:

Small Guns:
5 + 4 * AG [Fallout 2]
35 + AG [Fallout 1]


Speech:
5 * CH [Fallout 2]
25 + 2 * CH [Fallout 1]

For all the times i played both, i never knew that CHA doesn't influence speech checks, only serve as a multiplier. Always put my diplo char 8-9 zone, but now you tell me it was kinda uselessly spent points?
Are there not actual checks that look for CHA? How bout INT? I also believed that some of the dialogues only appear within certain threshold of INT. Or is it also only a multiplier for some skills and number of skill points per level?

Well, investing in charisma in the first Fallout is useless in of itself, so even if it had a greater effect on the skill, it probably would've still been worthless. In Fallout 2 it has an actual effect, letting you have more companions, and has a greater effect on Speech (and Barter) to boot.

The Fallout games do have some stat checks in dialogue, but they're very rare.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I know about companions, but that's it? That's really a discovery for me. I wouldn't put a single point in CHA, if i knew it, ever. Why would you, when you can just tag and rise your speech. Given that game doesn't show you if skill/stat check is being made like in modern ones, where do you find info on them?