Fallout Underwhelmed by Fallout :(

[ghostdog]

 

[Roguey]

The fact that you can metagame doesn't mean the choices and consequences aren't there.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

More quality content, not more fetch quests (and yes it has more of those as well and as usual they're shit and add nothing to the game). New Reno alone probably eclipses the entirety of Fallout 1 when it comes to C&C, then there's Bishop-NCR-VC power struggle, Gecko-VC powerplant problem, an interesting conflict between Mutants and human purists in Broken Hills (which becomes more morally ambiguous when you dig deeper), Navarro and multiple ways to get Vertibird plans etc. there's also (as someone already said) overall more connection between different settlements/towns, one nice example is Jet antidote (that can be made in different ways depending on skill checks and whether you use Myron).

Fallout 2 goes full derp in regards to the setting but there's plenty of great stuff in it.

While i agree with most of this post, bolded part is a not true.

This idea that new reno is c&c heavy place, needs to die on codex ASAP.
We talking about place where you can:

1. work for all 4 families at the same time. Sounds like oblivion, no?. So much for awesome C&C in new reno.
2. do every single quest for each family as long as you not return for reward after last quest in each family questline.
3. became a made man of all 4 families at the same time, as pointed in f2 walkthrought:

"It's possible to be listed on your character sheet as Made Man for all four families at the same time, as outlined by Sébastien Caisse: Once you've become a Made Man for a specific family, this family won't attack you any more. First you need to do all the possible quests for them, and not collect the final reward, and not assassinate Salvatore (until you're a Made Man for him). The trick is basically to sneak past everyone and collect your final reward by talking to the bosses before they engage in combat." Ryan P. Fialcowitz and Joshua Jansen then looked into the particulars and found there is another constraint: you must become Made Man for Bishop first, since Bishop's dialogue will change for the worse if you're already with some other family. This means that if you want all four you must end up allied with either the Wrights or the Mordinos. You will need to use a combination of Sneaking and running in combat mode to reach all bosses - saving a lot is recommended. Getting through the door to Salvatore is one of the tricky parts, but John Gaw points out: "If you talk to Mason while on good grounds, you can go into attack mode later and open the door with no problem whatsoever." Two more things should be noted. Firstly, despite what your character sheet says you will only be Made Man for one family at a time as far as the game is concerned, so there's no real reward for doing all this. Secondly, attacking the family you joined last will remove all Made Man labels from your list of reputations, but attacking any other family, including one you joined earlier, has no effect on them.

It requires some mad exploits, though.

 

[kwanzabot]

this guy registered in 04 but didnt play fall1 till 2015? is he either poor or a retart?


i played it in 1997 or 98 baby

 

[Morality Games]

So far everything I have played does not even compare to the first couple of rooms in PST's mortuary.

Auteur theory, man.

Different design sensibilities. Avellone used the cRPG sub-genre of RPGs to refine the genre into a borderline visual novel experience because of his love of , whereas Tim Cain embraced its roots as improvisational theater + numbers and spread sheets. Tim Cain school of design philosophy is precocious DM runs a campaign once a week and has to pull something together.

So far everything I have played does not even compare to the first couple of rooms in PST's mortuary.

Vault Dweller: "I represent a threat you don't even understand. Do you really want to risk our wrath."
Raider Leader: "Hmm. For some reason I believe you. You may take the girl, but do not return unless you seek our wrath."

No flow is an understatement....

That sort of bullshitting is how a random Charisma check would be resolved if you were just a couple of guys hashing it out with your DM IRL.

 

[laclongquan]

Either a retarded, or possible troll. Because poor is no excuse. The bay of avas me matey is just there, innit?

Also, it's Roshan. An oldtimer troll around here.

 

[Prime Junta]

This idea that new reno is c&c heavy place, needs to die on codex ASAP.
We talking about place where you can:

1. work for all 4 families at the same time. Sounds like oblivion, no?. So much for awesome C&C in new reno.
2. do every single quest for each family as long as you not return for reward after last quest in each family questline.
3. became a made man of all 4 families at the same time, as pointed in f2 walkthrought:

Not by design. And that's crucial.

What you're describing here is a set of exploits that let you do something that the creators didn't intend you to be able to do. Point 3 especially requires massive metagame knowledge and cleverly exploiting stealth to get into a condition that the scripters just didn't think to account for.

FO2 is exploitable as fuck, and you've just pointed out one of the many ways to exploit it. That does not negate the fact that its quest design is really heavy on C&C, which is one reason it's so well-liked here.

 

[Horus]

1. work for all 4 families at the same time. Sounds like oblivion, no?. So much for awesome C&C in new reno.
2. do every single quest for each family as long as you not return for reward after last quest in each family questline.
3. became a made man of all 4 families at the same time, as pointed in f2 walkthrought:

I guess you haven't watched Yojimbo?

 

[Roguey]

Defiance Bay in Pillars of Eternity is truly a paragon of C&C compared to New Reno because you're locked out of doing all subsequent quests for any other faction after you take on the second.

 

[almondblight]

Not by design. And that's crucial.

What you're describing here is a set of exploits that let you do something that the creators didn't intend you to be able to do.

Point 3, yes, but not points 1 and 2. 1 and 2 are how the game is designed, not some exploit. And it's a poor design that would be ridiculed around here if it showed up in a Beth game.

 

[Ranselknulf]

The fact that you can metagame doesn't mean the choices and consequences aren't there.

People who complain about metagaming in single player games.

Is there a forum tag for this?

 

[Sykar]

Not by design. And that's crucial.

What you're describing here is a set of exploits that let you do something that the creators didn't intend you to be able to do.

Point 3, yes, but not points 1 and 2. 1 and 2 are how the game is designed, not some exploit. And it's a poor design that would be ridiculed around here if it showed up in a Beth game.

Considering how limited development time, finance and technology and that it has been soon 20 years since FO 1 and FO 2 I dare say it would be justified if Bethderp did the same shit nowadays. They really have no excuse at this point anymore.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Drowed]

Hey guys, I can break the game so the C&C won't work! So, there's no C&C in it at all!

...Oh. You don't say.

 

[likaq]

Yes, because working for all 4 families at the same time required breaking the game.
Oh wait.

 

[JarlFrank]

Fallout actually is pretty underwhelming if you played Arcanum before

 

[Art Vandelay]

Fallout 1&2,Baldur's Gate 1&2 are great games and everything else,genre vise,that came afterwards is pure shit in comparison.Thats it...




























































also Planescape Torment lol

 

[Sykar]

Yes, because working for all 4 families at the same time required breaking the game.
Oh wait.

I guess having a little self restraint is too much to ask from the average autistic fuck here.

 

[TedNugent]

Then play Fallout 2, you fucking baby.

 

[likaq]

I guess having a little self restraint is too much to ask from the average autistic fuck here.

All these codexers bitching about oblivion and how you can work for all factions at the same time are wrong, they should restraint themselves!

 

[Sykar]

I guess having a little self restraint is too much to ask from the average autistic fuck here.

All these codexers bitching about oblivion and how you can work for all factions at the same time are wrong, they should restraint themselves!

That is the least of Obliviturds problems.

 

[Roguey]

All these codexers bitching about oblivion and how you can work for all factions at the same time are wrong, they should restraint themselves!

None of the New Reno family quests have you directly harm another family, except for the one where you have to assassinate one of the bosses. You're just one of many lackeys until you get the reputation of a Made Man.

 

[likaq]

They hate each other.

 

[Roguey]

They hate each other.

And not aware you're working for any of the others because you're not a made man.

 

[Athelas]

New Reno's quest design doesn't just revolve around the 4 families. Becoming a prize fighter or a porn star will also affect things, opening up quest solutions or even locking you out quests. Bishop will even know you killed his raiders because someone recognized one of the attackers as a certain tribal with a bone through his nose travelling with you.

One of the criteria for good quest design is arguably how often you're surprised by how quests play out or by their consequences down the line (and not in a cheap 'this seemingly innocent guy you rescued turns out to be evil' kind of way) and New Reno definitely delivers in that regard.