World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs and Brian Mitsoda

Yep. He won't be the first either. The entirety of the horror genre is about that kind of "faith" running into horror style "reality".

 

I remember after arguing with Roguey in some thread about Troika/Arcanum (or was it in derailed thread about PoE? I don't remember, it was very long time ago) and many people mentioned VtMB in their arguments, so I have decided to overcome my hatred towards vampire thematic and started playing game. And, oh boy, VtMB is awesome RPG (although I still felt slight discomfort that I playing as some kind tick humanoid, who parasitic towards humans). But my point is - when I encountered Bach ( I spared lives of all vampire hunters that hunted me and I had no desire to kill him, but sadly game forced me to kill him) and when he started to cast spells my thoughts was: "Wait, so in VtMB universe exist God and even grant spells to his followers? And idiot LaCroix and other vampires trying being in opposition to literally a God ? They fucking idiots."
I mean, what can value a vampire in his unlife? Sex and pleasures kinda doesn't matter anymore (please don't start another round in discussion about boners of undead, m'kay?), vampire enslaved by hunger and tortured by fear that one day he would be caught by vampire hunters. If there a God, which at least in some ways similar to Christian beliefs - there is a way to salvation and maybe for vampires it would be better to cease to exist, before Heaven's Gate will be locked forever? It's just looks like vampires in VtMB setting for some reasons still want to "live", even though they have no instincts for it (they kinda dead). A bit contradictory.
Sorry, for my philosophically/religious talk, personally I cannot consider myself as faithful, it's just talk in comments above about faith and atheism in comments above gave me the mood.

 

Smiling Jack givea an answer to that question in the first five minutes of VtM:B. Feeding and survival are the primary ones.

What is the meaning to your life anyway?

 

It doesn't. The relevant aspect of True Faith is a true and sincere faith in a higher power. You don't just think that God is there, you genuinely know for a fact that he is, or anything to that effect.

Here's True Faith as described in V2, VR, and V20:


Note that in Mage: The Ascension, for example, it specifically calls out things like the Flying Spaghetti Monster and silly post-modern satires things like that as inapplicable. It needs to be a genuine belief in a genuine higher power, with an established or believed moral code, and a historical legacy of some sort.

If you well and truly believe in the power of the invisible hand as a higher force, it doesn't matter whether you believe it's going to protect you or not, it is a divine force and a projection of your will, and it will protect you.

 

Don't forget that more or less every clan is kinda touched to the head. You simply play some autistic social games (like quest for power), treat blood like a rich junkie treats a dose, etc.

All religious stuff is almost as obscure for vampires as it is for mortals. True faith can be explained as some kind of rare magic, no one sure whether Cain (and especially God) existed, you can always shove religious symbols up somebody's ass.

I really don't think that vampires have existential crisis more often than humans.

 

If you still feel uncomfortable after playing a couple of hours, you can ask Infinitron how he deals with it.

 

Whats the point of feeding and survival for creatures that don't breed by fucking each other, can't taste food? These "meanings" is just very primitive instincts, if nothing more drive vampires in their unlife - they indeed monstrous oversized humanoid hybrid of tick and mosquito. They parasites and definitely can't be count as "peak of food chain".

Right now it's talking about random fictional shit on RPG Codex and argue about non-important things with strangers on Internet. Later I will have different meaning.

I finished my walkthrough several month ago, if not more, ffs. Ofc right now i don't feel any discomfort.

I can say without asking, that apparently splitting threads somehow helps him to overcome his frustration.

Well they kinda ablte to dwell in their unlife for thousands years (at least in VtMB setting), so i think it possible for thoughts about existence pop up time to time.

 

what you cited there doesn't say what you think it says. You don't have to have personally talked to God over the phone.

Question for me is, if it's not you channeling a higher power through an object like a crucifix, why do you even need the object in the first place?

 

That's a cute joke, and we've all made silly jokes in PnP, but that's all it is, a joke. I bet that campaign didn't last long.

 

Entire point is that vampirism is a curse in World in Darkness. That's kinda something people downplay because it generally turns more into a power fantasy along the way rather than what a wretched existence it would hypothetically be. You could also make an argument that a vampire is basically just the Beast chained by memories of humanity you still retain while wearing your old skin. Hell, why do you think vampires politic all the time if not to distract themselves and pass the eternity doing something other than "rise, drink blood, sleep"?

 

It seems more like what you cited doesn't say what you think it says. I never said anything about personally having talked to God over the phone. I didn't even hint at it, at all. My point is in fact the opposite, that it is about genuine and true Faith, regardless of what that faith is in. You genuinely and truly know that the object of your Faith is real and true.

You don't. Are you literally incapable of fucking reading? Are you suffering from some kind of gay-based dyslexia, yet insist on chiming in on issues you haven't understood, even with the material handed right to you to read in peace, taking your time? Seriously, what the fuck.

It literally says right fucking there that it is a function of your faith, not of the symbol. The symbol is only "necessary" and only protects you because you believe it is and does, but the actual power of True Faith comes from you. There's even examples given in the 2E material, such as a Jewish Star of Infinitron, or the Prayers of a Taoist.

 

So yeah, you said what I said. "Genuinely and truly knowing that entity X is real" would require some personal contact. Wether that even still constitutes faith is debatable.

CANT U READ YOU DONT NEED THE CRUCIFIX U LIBTARD IT ONLY SAYS THE CRUCIFIX IS NECESSARY R U GAY

0/10, would abort

So yes, you need an object. It even cites several different religious icons you fucktard Star of David, Crucifix, whatever. Just believing in being saved by a higher power apparently doesn't do the trick. Unless you're trying to tell me that this is implicit because Christians can only be consciously aware of their faith if they have a fucking crucifix in their hands, or because they believe the crucifix is a magic weapon and God couldn't do shit for you if you left it at home.

 

Well ... don't forget the context, it's a game world, not a "what if this was actually true" simulator. Of course the power fantasy and the fun aspects are going to be played up. No group of friends is going to meet around a table for several hours twice a month to go "oh woe is us, our characters are cursed, god has forsaken us, wahhh" and although Bloodlines 1 touched on the accursed nature of vampires, having that be the central focus it "realistically" should be wouldn't make for a very prestigious video game experience.

 

What's the meaning of life? Humans have struggled with that concept since before history, and Vampires can very much ask themselves what the point of Unlife or Death is. They're parasites, sure, but they are also ruled by the primordial urges of The Beast, and most vampires know full well that they are cursed. They have no more wish to meet their maker than any murderer or raper that have had the misfortune to peer behind the veil of reality and be burned by the face of God.

The very existence of being a Vampire eventually pushes the cursed in question to commit unspeakable acts that would've been unthinkable for most in their previous life, and if they don't walk down that path themselves, the beast eventually makes sure that if they were reluctant to kill earlier, they are going to get used to it sooner or later. And if they are some kind of snowflake that somehow manages to trip a path between Humanity and the Beast, the Jyhad and the politics will find them, sooner or later, whether it's a group of Sabbat setting fire to your legs as they force you to murder a Christian family in rural Wisconsin to prove your loyalty, or if it's the Camarilla playing you into betraying your friends and murderhoboing their ghouls to cover up the crime.

My point being that vampirism, bearing the mark of Caine, it's very explicitly a curse, and while you're not alive, most kindred sure as hell are not in a hurry to speed towards final death. Even the most devout of vampires, who try desperately to hold on to their Humanity, rarely go to meet the sunshine at the end of a long night. After being embraced, most find new things to do, whether they want to or not. Most do not realize their cursed state until it is far too late. And that's ignoring the many, many vamps that do not consider it a curse at all.

Oh, I'm sorry, you're genuinely autistic. My apologies. I assumed for a second that you weren't functionally retarded. You see, what I'm inferring here is a state of subjective knowing, as experienced by people that "know for a fact" even things that aren't necessarily true. That is the "genuine" part of "genuine faith". I'm sorry, I assumed you weren't retarded. Now I know.

Jesus Christ, the dyslexia and retardation is too hard here. Bless your heart, special child.

 

"genuinely and truly knowing" = some subjective state of knowing

So there's genuinely and truly knowing things, which includes knowing about the existence of entities with whom you've never had anything you'd consider personal contact. And then there's of course genuinelylyly supertruly knowing things. Thanks for playing, retard.

 

It doesn't make for a good PnP experience either because Humanity is bullshit on a stick.

The general issue with the aspect in VtM is really just that it does a really, really poor job of conveying the "curse" in any but the most abstract manners. Truth is that you get a set of superpowers with a set of kryptonites, and a literal morality meter. Additional material basically only made it worse by giving "alien" morality meters which were basically just sillier (im/a)morality meters. If there's one single thing that was always fundamentally a mistake in Vampire, it was Humanity and Paths of Enlightenment as morality meters. This is a total failure in trying to create any sort of "curse", and some vague and arbitrary Beast cannot address it.

The only time they actually managed to get somewhere in tackling this aspect in the PnP systems was the second edition of Requiem which completely changed how Humanity works and what it is, but in short form it completely decoupled Humanity from being a morality meter. That's the very first time Humanity (and accompanying meters, with possible exception being Torment from Promethean; but as much as I like Promethean it has a huge swath of its own fundamental flaws) has ever been used right and done properly.

(Also another problem with the whole power fantasy thing is that the metaplot of VtM is heavily power fantastic with ancient monsters and all that jazz, it's basically epic-saga-bro stuff that if approached actually necessitates power fantasy; which might not be a bad thing if one actually commits)

 

VtM isn't about actually having a curse. It's a power fantasy mixed with being emo pretending to have a curse that actually turns you into the coolest, sexiest, meanest motherfucking predator ever.

 

Which is unfortunate.

 

I dunno. A vampire game that took the curse seriously would be a real downer to play. We'd all be begging for the Society of Leopold to find us and put an end to our misery.

 

Not that I disagree with you, but what RPG is not a power fantasy at its core?

 

it can be both.

originally in Lionheart the Feralkin were supposed to be much more powerful than the other two races but widely loathed.

 

Power fantasy doesn't necessarily mean you have to be strongest bestest coolest there is, playing a god isn't as fun. Instead, power fantasy is fantasy of opportunity, being presented with possibilities that have appropriate challenges. A vampire RPG can absolutely be about being cursed. In fact even original VTMB was tethering on being cursed more than being "awesome", as you were suddenly pulled into intrigue and conflict between Camarilla, Anarchs and Sabbath only narrowly avoiding being executed as soon as you are embraced.

 

After which you proceeded to massacre 3/4 of the LA vamp population with a fire axe.

 

Eventually yes, which is why I said tethering. Still, the point is that a RPG is about fantasy of opportunity.

 

tis an edge fantasy