World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Lacrymas]

The Camarilla elders and princes are afraid that a gay black Muslim feminist who vapes, lives a no-waste lifestyle, is an urban beekeeper and vegan is going to lead a crusade that will shake the foundations of the status quo. Which they themselves know is oppressive and misogynistic, but will fight for their privilege to oppress.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Gay black Muslim feminist is the ultimate checklist of character traits for any progressive.

Hey Kyl Von Kull name a flaw this guy has. He bashes the fash, he fights for minorities, he respects women and humans alike, he's devoutly religious, where are the crippling personality flaws? All the (clan stereotype) characters in Bloodlines had them.

To the contemporary left, being devoutly religious is a character flaw. It’s also clear from the description that the author thinks there’s some major unresolved tension here. The implication is that Rudi hasn’t fully thought things through and he responds to criticism with violence—not great qualities! The author is practically screaming, “this guy’s heart is in the right place, but his head... maybe not.”

Haven’t you ever met someone who wants to obliterate traditional values, except for their own tradition, which they try very hard not to think about? Sort of a fully committed but still half-baked anarchist—if White Wolf had made this character Jewish, everybody would recognize the archetype.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's not practically screaming that, you'd have to interpret (or, let's be real here, hyperinterpret) what's in the text for that to be the implication. He's a tough manly man who everyone is afraid to bother with his very woke and contemporary combination of labels. ~*>> Character writing <<*~ ~*>> Fighting the Man <<*~ ~*>> Woke <<*~ ~*>> justfeministthings <<*~

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

It's not practically screaming that, you'd have to interpret (or, let's be real here, hyperinterpret) what's in the text for that to be the implication. He's a tough manly man who everyone is afraid to bother with his very woke and contemporary combination of labels. ~*>> Character writing <<*~ ~*>> Fighting the Man <<*~ ~*>> Woke <<*~ ~*>> justfeministthings <<*~

Before this turns into one of those things where people pretend that subtext doesn’t exist—not helpful when interpreting media—I want to point out that this is in the text itself!

“Some might think Rudi’s combination of practicing Islam and unabashed queerness contradictory, but few challenge the ‘bear gangrel’ with this notion.”

Like, they flat out tell you there’s a contradiction, then explain that no one will say it to this guy’s face. Why? Because he’s the fucking bear gangrel! Don’t be obtuse.

Edit: also, why is anyone expecting complex character development in a throway 200 odd word description?

 

[GothicWizard]

bloodlines stats were a downgrade compared to redemption. At most you only had 3 disciplines which is a joke. The combat related stats might as well not been there as leveling unarmed and blood buff get you through the whole game. The game changing fan patches don't count.

umm THAT's how it is in the RPG.. you start with your clans core 3 and rarely do you get more in table top. So were going to hammer the game for.. you know.. respecting the source material?

 

[Lacrymas]

Before this turns into one of those things where people pretend that subtext doesn’t exist—not helpful when interpreting media—I want to point out that this is in the text itself!

“Some might think Rudi’s combination of practicing Islam and unabashed queerness contradictory, but few challenge the ‘bear gangrel’ with this notion.”

Like, they flat out tell you there’s a contradiction, then explain that no one will say it to this guy’s face. Why? Because he’s the fucking bear gangrel! Don’t be obtuse.

Edit: also, why is anyone expecting complex character development in a throway 200 odd word description?

That's what I mean by "he's a tough manly man who everyone is afraid to bother with his very woke and contemporary combination of labels". This is literally another way in which he is woke (and probably gets pussies wet? No idea, I lose my erection when reading about this guy), taking no lip from anyone.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

That's what I mean by "he's a tough manly man who everyone is afraid to bother with his very woke and contemporary combination of labels". This is literally another way in which he is woke, taking no lip from anyone.

Since when is being hyper-masculine considered woke?

 

[Roguey]

To the contemporary left, being devoutly religious is a character flaw. It’s also clear from the description that the author thinks there’s some major unresolved tension here. The implication is that Rudi hasn’t fully thought things through and he responds to criticism with violence—not great qualities! The author is practically screaming, “this guy’s heart is in the right place, but his head... maybe not.”

Libs love Muslims and Nazi punching though.

 

[Gerrard]

I'll just leave this here

 

[Lacrymas]

Since when is being hyper-masculine considered woke?

It's about Taking the Fight to the Man, having the physical strength to protect oppressed minorities and being liberated enough to knock out anyone who is against whatever minority you happen to be.

 

[Serious_Business]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Cael]

Seriously, it's not like there are no homosexual Muslims, so depicting them in a game is not an issue.

Or is it that he's backing "progressive" norms? He's a gay Muslim, what do you expect him to do? Establish Sharia law?

Gay black Muslim feminist is the ultimate checklist of character traits for any progressive.

Wait till they figure out how to vegan a vampire...

 

[JBro]

What pronouns are you going to use?

 

[normie]

What pronouns are you going to use?

I'll be playing demiagender and rolling with zim/zam

 

[Terra]

It's Paradox so I'll be holding out for a "more pronouns" dlc pack before jumping in. I want to get the complete experience.

 

[Storyfag]

what journal

Holy shit...

Say, I'm not that familiar with VtM. But in Bloodlines I got the impression that vampires don't really care about human affairs other than their ghouls. This reads like cheap fanfic.

It bears repeating on every page: this is a scan of one of the PnP books. This thing will likely not be present in Bloodlines 2.

As a sidenote, this character is deeply unrealistic. We all know xir should be from Stockholm, not from Copenhagen!

 

[Yosharian]

Friendly reminder that The Wire had a gay black thief who stole from drug dealers and shit.

Friendly reminder that that character was bad-ass as fuck, and would view pussyfooting around what words to use to describe Malkavian's insane voices, as well as caring about pronouns, as a problem to be swiftly rectified by a shotgun blast to the head.

Maybe, just maybe, if a character is well-written and likeable, it doesn't matter if they're gay, black, Muslim, or whatever.

 

[typical user]

I want to see this comment after a year to check how close I was.

I believe new Bloodlines won't offer any choice regarding PC clan - instead players will be able to select distinct traits and one of the main plots will be to find our sire and get answers why we got embraced. Depending on our choices, selected traits / perks and maybe if they include it stats in the end we will see our alignment in that character. I really wish we could play as a neutral member of non-affiliated clans like Capadocian (is that how they are called?) not just Camarilla.

I also hope the game will stay at least to a degree to it's roots and allow players to choose their approach, like in old Troika/Black Isle games with force/stealth/diplomacy. I also hope the game will feature more invastigations (like finding a car by it's plates which are also on NPC's driver's license).

 

[Lacrymas]

It's confirmed the protagonist is thin-blood, so yeah, no clan. Cappadocians don't exist anymore, the last Cappadocian was killed a while ago by the Giovanni. The only possible neutral clan which we might deal with is Giovanni, maybe Ravnos, but they are almost extinct. It would be cool if the Assamites and Setites are there, but throwing in everything and the kitchen sink is probably too much.

 

[Storyfag]

It's confirmed the protagonist is thin-blood, so yeah, no clan. Cappadocians don't exist anymore, the last Cappadocian was killed a while ago by the Giovanni.

The Harbingers of Skulls respectfully disagree.

 

[agentorange]

Friendly reminder that The Wire had a gay black thief who stole from drug dealers and shit.

Friendly reminder that that character was bad-ass as fuck, and would view pussyfooting around what words to use to describe Malkavian's insane voices, as well as caring about pronouns, as a problem to be swiftly rectified by a shotgun blast to the head.

Maybe, just maybe, if a character is well-written and likeable, it doesn't matter if they're gay, black, Muslim, or whatever.

HBO even had examples of well done black nationalist Muslim characters.



Heavily flawed character too, due to things like his conflict between trying to preach and practice peace while being stuck in a prison where violence is a constant (which would be the sort of inner conflict perfectly suited for VTM), or trying to maintain humility while also desiring that ego boost of leadership. Contrast that to SJW fiction where a character can perfectly maintain their absolute moral righteousness so long as the people they are hitting and killing are THE BAD GUYS (people the authors not the characters disagree with). And no such character could possibly take any action for self-serving reasons, every choice they make is selfless and virtuous. Just the fact that that little blurb specifically says that few people challenge this character's idiosyncratic bullshit tells you everything you need to know about what a pathetic self-insert this Rudi is. Throw a bunch of conflicting character descriptors together because that is SO UNIQUE and how dare you ever question how nonsensical it might be.

 

[Lacrymas]

The Harbingers of Skulls respectfully disagree.

They are the Harbingers of Skulls, not Cappadocian :p They are also a bloodline, not a clan.

 

[Storyfag]

The Harbingers of Skulls respectfully disagree.

They are the Harbingers of Skulls, not Cappadocian :p They are also a bloodline, not a clan.

Technicalities.

The Tremere are a bloodline of the Tzimisce, not a clan.

 

[Sukhāvatī]

I believe new Bloodlines won't offer any choice regarding PC clan - instead players will be able to select distinct traits and one of the main plots will be to find our sire and get answers why we got embraced.

They said initially you'd start out as a thin-blood then choose your clan later. In v5, when a thin-blood diablerises a clan vamp, he then ascends to a 13th gen vampire and this is how the Camarilla gets thin-bloods to do what they want, by using clan ascendancy as a carrot on a stick. Pg. 113 of the rulebook iirc.

 

[Echo Mirage]

What is the lore behind the Seattle bloodtrade I keep seeing mentioned?