World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[normie]

it's missing Blink

 

[Wesp5]

it's missing Blink

To me none of these three Thinblood disciplines is as overpowered as Blink, so there is still hope !

 

[Zombra]

It's telling that "levitate every enemy at once" is a power but the nearest thing to actually levitating yourself is one that clearly can only be used in designated areas.

Do we really want them to build a Seattle where you can fly to the top of every skyscraper or float into any of its million windows? I don't like "SHOOT CLIMBING ARROW HERE " school of design either, buuuuuuuuuuut in the context of this game I'm actually fine with its expected uses being scripted as long as they don't blatantly leave out a ton of places where I would naturally want to use it but can't. I honestly don't expect or want this game to be a sandbox full of physics tools that allow me to creatively solve problems a la Underworld Ascendant.

 

[fantadomat]

Ban Sailor Woedica

And remove one of the last remaining rays of sunlight falling upon this here pile of festering compost? Nay, I say. Nay!

Thanks so much Junta! Btw I never said this before but I legit started watching ContraPoints because of you posting about her and she is so funny and knowledgable and amazing, sis! She's one of my favourite Youtubers right now!

Ohhh Prime Junta ,you sneaky bastard. I see you are trying to change the old Persian slave for a young black tanzboy from Greece.

 

[Delterius]

It's telling that "levitate every enemy at once" is a power but the nearest thing to actually levitating yourself is one that clearly can only be used in designated areas.

Do we really want them to build a Seattle where you can fly to the top of every skyscraper or float into any of its million windows? I don't like "SHOOT CLIMBING ARROW HERE " school of design either, buuuuuuuuuuut in the context of this game I'm actually fine with its expected uses being scripted as long as they don't blatantly leave out a ton of places where I would naturally want to use it but can't. I honestly don't expect or want this game to be a sandbox full of physics tools that allow me to creatively solve problems a la Underworld Ascendant.

guize its levitate, not flight -- yer just throwing people around

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

It's telling that "levitate every enemy at once" is a power but the nearest thing to actually levitating yourself is one that clearly can only be used in designated areas.

Do we really want them to build a Seattle where you can fly to the top of every skyscraper or float into any of its million windows? I don't like "SHOOT CLIMBING ARROW HERE " school of design either, buuuuuuuuuuut in the context of this game I'm actually fine with its expected uses being scripted as long as they don't blatantly leave out a ton of places where I would naturally want to use it but can't. I honestly don't expect or want this game to be a sandbox full of physics tools that allow me to creatively solve problems a la Underworld Ascendant.

I mean, isn't that just the mentalism discipline? If you want to fly at any time, you should probably take the power that lets you turn into a bat. I'd be very surprised if you can only use that in designated areas.

 

[Zombra]

guize its levitate, not flight -- yer just throwing people around

deuxhero may be talking about the "bat flying/gliding" power.

 

[Chippy]

Oh man I am so hype for this game that is a year away, I hope they keep trickling out information across that whole year so I will be even more hype. Hype is me.

Game isn't coming out for a year?! WTF am I doing reading this thread? Let me know in a years time if Sweden hasn't burned to the ground, and then I might be slightly hyped for the following year whne I can buy it in a steam sale...

 

[Zombra]

I mean, isn't that just the mentalism discipline? If you want to fly at any time, you should probably take the power that lets you turn into a bat. I'd be very surprised if you can only use that in designated areas.

You might be able to jump around at random, but reading back the powers description it does kinda sound like there will be DXHR-style "here is a ledge you can fly to" or "here is a door with a keyhole you can mist through". Though it would be nice, I don't expect to be able to use these "organically". Which again, to me is fine honestly.

 

[Lambach]

You might be able to jump around at random, but reading back the powers description it does kinda sound like there will be DXHR-style "here is a ledge you can fly to" or "here is a door with a keyhole you can mist through". Though it would be nice, I don't expect to be able to use these "organically". Which again, to me is fine honestly.

DXHR did (sometimes) allow you to use augs "organically", though. One of my favorites was moving around heavy objects to use as portable covers and throw them at attackers when I'm done. Also, a neat little combo is to hack a turret, then carry it around with you as a portable death-dispenser.

Honestly, I would be perfectly OK even with the admittedly mediocre levels of freedom and organic use of power such as in Dishonored or DXHR, you can hardly realistically expect much better these days.

 

[Wesp5]

The description for the bat discipline doesn't sound as if you can actively fly, rather float if the level includes the option: "Glide greatly lowers the weight of the vampire’s skeleton and muscle mass to allow them to float on updrafts, reaching otherwise inaccessible areas."

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

I mean, isn't that just the mentalism discipline? If you want to fly at any time, you should probably take the power that lets you turn into a bat. I'd be very surprised if you can only use that in designated areas.

You might be able to jump around at random, but reading back the powers description it does kinda sound like there will be DXHR-style "here is a ledge you can fly to" or "here is a door with a keyhole you can mist through". Though it would be nice, I don't expect to be able to use these "organically". Which again, to me is fine honestly.

• Glide — first active power. Glide greatly lowers the weight of the vampire’s skeleton and muscle mass to allow them to briefly float, reaching otherwise inaccessible areas, swoop down on NPCs to knock them down, or rain down other Disciplines from afar.

I don't see any suggestion in here that you won't be able to use it organically. You can use it in combat! Am I missing something?

 

[Syme]

The description for the bat discipline doesn't sound as if you can actively fly, rather float if the level includes the option: "Glide greatly lowers the weight of the vampire’s skeleton and muscle mass to allow them to float on updrafts, reaching otherwise inaccessible areas."

Man, I was waiting for a game to finally implement proper updrafts. I mean I can barely keep my dog from floating away because of all the updrafts in my town. I'm sure those updrafts will be implemented organically during level design and not include giant floor fans for no reason.

 

[Zombra]

I don't see any suggestion in here that you won't be able to use it organically. You can use it in combat! Am I missing something?

Eh, you could be right ... but I'm having a hard time envisioning a game space that is built with 3D navigation as a fundamental design element when this is an optional ability that approximately 2/3 of players won't have access to.

In fact, I'd argue that having only one writer is actually detrimental to a project. You need at least a second guy to take on the role of editor for the first writer, else we'll end up with overwritten stuff like Numenera which would have benefitted from having its texts trimmed quite a bit.

Editors are, in general, badly needed in video game writing. Are there even any studios employing honest to God editors in that capacity, or is it, at best, someone on the writing team given an additional task?

I anticipated this conversation by two weeks with a very incisive tweet to the makers of Bloodlines 2. No reply as yet

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Eh, you could be right ... but I'm having a hard time envisioning a game space that is built with 3D navigation as a fundamental design element when this is an optional ability that approximately 2/3 of players won't have access to.

but they're making 3D traversal a major part of the game, which is why they keep emphasizing climbing. it's not just this one ability. I feel like they've been very clear about wanting to expand upon the immersive sim elements from the first Bloodlines.

 

[Zombra]

they're making 3D traversal a major part of the game

That's news to me. Awesome. Maybe the mist thing will also be more universal than I'm expecting.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

they're making 3D traversal a major part of the game

That's news to me. Awesome. Maybe the mist thing will also be more universal than I'm expecting.

I just googled "Bloodlines 2" "verticality" and got over a thousand hits. here's one:

https://kotaku.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-is-getting-a-sequel-1833479366

What seemed more impressive was how Bloodlines 2 plans to approaches its hub world. Seattle was active, with plenty of neon signs and nightlife. Crowds gathered outside clubs and muggers preyed on victims in side allies. The player can scale buildings, their verticality offering new paths through the world or secrets to find.
“You want to capture the essence of a location. Rather than an open world with a lot of stuff but not a lot going on block for block,” lead narrative designer Brian Mitsoda explained. Mitsoda designed and wrote story for the first game, and has been guiding Bloodline 2’s voice and tone. “It’s making sure that the player isn’t walking for a while with nothing to do.

 

[Cael]

*snicker* Rule 0 wins! Might as well call this Twilight.

 

[Delterius]

storytellers being supreme in a storyfag game based in a storyfag system

quelle horreur

 

[Orma]

My two crazy theories for how Bloodlines 2 can stay true to its Vampire lore


By Joanna Nelius 2 hours ago

Thinbloods are a complicated group, but their history seems like it will make sense in the upcoming sequel.

Paradox Interactive had the first of their weekly Vampire: The Masquerade — Bloodlines 2 streams today, where they revealed more about the Thinblood powers. While getting a more detailed look at the abilities was exciting, many Vampire: The Masquerade lore-hounds like myself were still wondering the same thing: How can you join another clan later in the game if you start out as a Thinblood? Aren’t all vampires locked into specific disciplines and abilities based on whoever sires them?

Turns out it’s more complicated than that.

I had to break out my lorebooks to get a clearer picture of how this all works, but the Thinbloods we were introduced to in the first Bloodlines videogame are actually just one possible type of Thinblood. By looking at how clans are historically formed, how vampires can develop disciplines and powers separate from their bloodline, and the current state of the modern world in the V5 rulebook, what seems like a deviation from canon starts to make sense.

First, let’s talk about the characteristics of a Thinblood. They are the last generations of vampires (the 14th and 15th). Their bloodline is extremely diluted. So diluted that they must spend twice the amount of blood points to use their disciplines, and a portion of their blood must go toward waking every night. Thinbloods have a hard time embracing others and, if their childe survives the embrace, they often do not wake up as a vampire until a while later. Weird, right?

But all Thinbloods are part of a bloodline, or a group of vampires who share a common lineage. There are bloodline-specific clans, as we saw in the Bloodlines videogame, that share common traits specific to only one bloodline. Malkavians, for example, are insane. Gangrel can change physical form. Nosferatu fell off the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

As a whole, a clan is just one of the 13 major vampire groups that share common characteristics passed on by blood.

A vampire can’t change their lineage, so a vampire will always belong to the same bloodline as their sire, but traits, disciplines, and culture within the bloodlines themselves can change with each passing generation. If you’ve played the first Bloodlines, you might remember meeting Jeanette in the Asylum for the first time. If you play as a Malkavian, she says to you, ‘you’ve got it bad,’ meaning you’re one of the crazier Malkavians in your clan. Yes, they can have varying levels of crazy.

Also, bloodlines can be created in a variety of ways: Mythical methods, divergent evolution, drinking all of another vampire’s blood, or via a flawed embrace, meaning that a new vampire didn’t inherit any characteristics of their sire’s clan.

Finally, Thinbloods have been know to develop powers all on their own, despite their diluted blood. They may not be able to gain complete mastery over their powers, and Thinbloods are unique in that they're the only vampires that can develop their own powers; it’s normally impossible for older generations to do this. So it fits with canon to start off as a Thinblood with powers in Bloodlines 2.

Taking that entire, extremely condensed version of Vampire: The Masquerade rules and lore into consideration, I have two theories of how starting out as a Thinblood and joining a different clan later in the game could make sense. In its stream, Paradox mentioned that the story could deal with players joining as an outsider, so here’s how that could work.

Theory one: You become an honorary member of a clan


This is the most logical if you think about it from a clan Nosferatu perspective. If Nosferatu are included in the game when it first releases, there isn’t a clear-cut way to explain how your character starts as a normal-looking Thinblood only to become hideous after choosing to join the Nosferatu; it’s two different bloodlines, not to mention lineages. But how would you become an honorary member of a clan?

Since the entire vampire political spectrum is in flux, maybe you not only align yourself with a faction, but also with a specific clan.

We can look to some background information in the V5 rulebook for that. In the new edition, the vampire world is in a state of chaos. Powerful vampire leaders in cities around the world have abandoned their domains, leaving the various clans and sects within those cities fighting for power. Even a newbie vampire could gain power if they play their cards right.

So, since the entire vampire political spectrum is in flux, maybe you not only align yourself with a faction, but with a specific clan. Clans like the Assamites in the lore are not defined by their bloodline, but by their beliefs. Maybe we won’t see the same clans from Bloodlines, but rather independent clans that don’t claim allegiance to any sect like the Camarilla or Sabbat.

Theory two: You kill a vampire in a specific clan and take in their entire essence.

In the tabletop games, a Thinblood can perform Diablerie, or drinking another vampire’s blood until the point of Final Death. The Camarilla strongly forbids this practice, as they consider it akin to cannibalism, but that doesn’t mean this won’t be an option in the game as a means of explaining the main story.

When a Thinblood drinks all the blood from another vampire, they not only gain their traits, but they can also go up a few generations, depending on how old that vampire was. There are rumors of diablerists taking on the mannerisms and personalities of their victims, for when an act of Diablerie is committed, it’s not just blood a vampire ingests, but it’s also their victim’s soul.


When an act of Diablerie is committed, it’s not just blood a vampire ingests, but it’s also their victim’s soul.

Additionally, according to the V5 version, Thinbloods have their own blood alchemy. This potentially allows them to taste the Disciplines of other kindred—and get more than a taste if they can find enough blood to fuel their alchemy. (Yep, Diablerie!)

I personally like this the best. It’s not an easy thing to accomplish in the tabletop games, but it would be awesome if it was an option in Bloodlines 2.

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/my-two-c...oodlines-2-can-stay-true-to-its-vampire-lore/

 

[J1M]

I mean, isn't that just the mentalism discipline? If you want to fly at any time, you should probably take the power that lets you turn into a bat. I'd be very surprised if you can only use that in designated areas.

You might be able to jump around at random, but reading back the powers description it does kinda sound like there will be DXHR-style "here is a ledge you can fly to" or "here is a door with a keyhole you can mist through". Though it would be nice, I don't expect to be able to use these "organically". Which again, to me is fine honestly.

• Glide — first active power. Glide greatly lowers the weight of the vampire’s skeleton and muscle mass to allow them to briefly float, reaching otherwise inaccessible areas, swoop down on NPCs to knock them down, or rain down other Disciplines from afar.

I don't see any suggestion in here that you won't be able to use it organically. You can use it in combat! Am I missing something?

Common sense.

 

[Saerain]

Thinbloods are not a clan are they??

Not really, of course. They just tend strongly to be Caitiff because no one will have them, so they're sort of, unofficially, their own clan. In game terms, anyway, not in-world.

 

[Cael]

Love how thinbloods get abilities that Clan kindred would kill to get. It seems that being a thinblood in wokeVamp is better than being part of a Clan. Must be the "muh oppreshun" factor.

 

[Dwemer Puzzle Box]

What seemed more impressive was how Bloodlines 2 plans to approaches its hub world. Seattle was active, with plenty of neon signs and nightlife. Crowds gathered outside clubs and muggers preyed on victims in side allies. The player can scale buildings, their verticality offering new paths through the world or secrets to find.
“You want to capture the essence of a location. Rather than an open world with a lot of stuff but not a lot going on block for block,” lead narrative designer Brian Mitsoda explained. Mitsoda designed and wrote story for the first game, and has been guiding Bloodline 2’s voice and tone. “It’s making sure that the player isn’t walking for a while with nothing to do.

They should just go full Saints Row 4 with all the running around, flying, triple jumping, and gliding stuff. With everything we know so far this will be a major

 

[Metro]

So this is basically going to be more GTA/SR open world than Deus Ex quality level design open world? The latter, of course, is what made Bloodlines great. This is looking to be just a vampire themed GTA.