World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Grunker]

Lenny from Motörhead

Lenny

fags

oh wow, i deserve the guillotine for that one

 

[Prime Junta]

 

[Wesp5]

From a gameplay perspective the "thinblood powers" are really basic universal vampire powers that you start out with. On top of those you get the powers of your chosen clan.

Speaking of which, what about Bloodbuff (and Bloodheal if you use the plus patch)? These were generic all-clan-powers in the first game, but I haven't heard anything about them yet regarding Bloodlines 2...

 

[Prime Junta]

I'm kinda hoping they'll drop them. Bloodbuff especially trivialises some of your build choices.

 

[Rahdulan]

I'm kinda hoping they'll drop them. Bloodbuff especially trivialises some of your build choices.

I think it's just a matter of better balancing them as powers. You'd think both healing and buffing were invented specifically for Redemption/Bloodlines as a gameplay mechanic, but they are actually from the roleplaying game itself. Where you spend a single blood point mattered way more there and it was harder to replenish blood in general, though.

 

[Prime Junta]

I think it's just a matter of better balancing them as powers. You'd think both healing and buffing were invented specifically for Redemption/Bloodlines as a gameplay mechanic, but they are actually from the roleplaying game itself. Where you spend a single blood point mattered way more there and it was harder to replenish blood in general, though.

Yep. Balance doesn't matter much in PnP anyway as the GM can tailor challenges to fit the party's capabilities.

 

[Vibalist]

Where is Presence?

 

[Grunker]

I'm kinda hoping they'll drop them. Bloodbuff especially trivialises some of your build choices.

Best thing about Wesp patch is the Bloodbuff nerf IIRC. I'm fine with Blood Healing though, since that actually would work for Bloodlines (well, at the beginning at least). It's basically regenerating health but in a way where it's not trivial and free (or not supposed to be anyway) to recover health. Just remove the heal effect from feeding so you have to choose blood or health unless you've got a good supply of the former

 

[Wesp5]

Best thing about Wesp patch is the Bloodbuff nerf IIRC.

Originally Troika planned a buff that must be directed at either Strength, Dexterity or Stamina, not all at once...

 

[Prime Junta]

Best thing about Wesp patch is the Bloodbuff nerf IIRC.

Originally Troika planned a buff that must be directed at either Strength, Dexterity or Stamina, not all at once...

If you picked which one at CC that would have been good. If you can choose which one to buff at the time you use it, it would have been just as bad (or worse).

 

[Wesp5]

If you picked which one at CC that would have been good. If you can choose which one to buff at the time you use it, it would have been just as bad (or worse).

I guess you would have picked the stat, but you only would have gotten a buff of +1. BTW speaking of Bloodheal, does feeding heal in the PnP game? Maybe I should remove this for the plus patch if it is possible...

 

[Prime Junta]

I guess you would have picked the stat, but you only would have gotten a buff of +1. BTW speaking of Bloodheal, does feeding heal in the PnP game? Maybe I should remove this for the plus patch if it is possible...

I wouldn't. It would just add busywork -- heal with Bloodheal, feed to replenish blood points, rinse, repeat. The warehouse, Grout's mansion, and endgame Temple and Ventrue Tower would become extremely tedious.

 

[hajro]

Implying this wont have cod style health regen that works until a hp threshold

 

[Wesp5]

I wouldn't. It would just add busywork -- heal with Bloodheal, feed to replenish blood points, rinse, repeat.

That's what I thought, but it seems people like Grunker see this differently and several agreed with him...

 

[ArchAngel]

I wouldn't. It would just add busywork -- heal with Bloodheal, feed to replenish blood points, rinse, repeat.

That's what I thought, but it seems people like Grunker see this differently and several agreed with him...

This change would only nerf Gangrel as you can turn on Fortitude and feed and heal on enemies during combat while ignoring being shot at :D

 

[Nines_Anarch]

I would rather have passive effects than Earthshock lol

The way the enemies ragdolled around looked amazingly similar to Bloodlines. Either this is intentional or the U4 engine can't handle physics much better than the good old Source engine could !

Yes, Bloodlines was magnificent on that regard.



It seems Hardsuit Labs is trying to achieve the same level.

 

[Prime Junta]

I wouldn't. It would just add busywork -- heal with Bloodheal, feed to replenish blood points, rinse, repeat.

That's what I thought, but it seems people like Grunker see this differently and several agreed with him...

You'd also have to change the intro. There's the bit where Jack sends you to feed on the bum and/or the rats specifically to heal up from getting shot.

So not worth it IMO. Good on nerfing Blood Buff though, I appreciate that.

 

[Wesp5]

You'd also have to change the intro. There's the bit where Jack sends you to feed on the bum and/or the rats specifically to heal up from getting shot.

That's a good argument, so I'll keep it like it is! Bloodheal is a bit erratic anyway, as I had to simulate it by raising auto-healing-speed for a short while.

 

[jungl]

Absolutely. I guess what it comes down to is Bloodlines established a mood and this power feels wacky in a way that breaks the mood.

The setting as a whole is a dumb as fuck goose bumps book.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

You'd also have to change the intro. There's the bit where Jack sends you to feed on the bum and/or the rats specifically to heal up from getting shot.

That's a good argument, so I'll keep it like it is! Bloodheal is a bit erratic anyway, as I had to simulate it by raising auto-healing-speed for a short while.

Another thing to note in regards to blood healing is that in PnP it's effectively instant, limited by turn and Generation.

And if you really went down the PnP with this matter, you'd also end up going with others, ie Potence and Fortitude would be permanently active for free, Obfuscate would be free, Presence would be free and permanent, Dominate would be free, depending on version of core book used Celerity may or may not drain blood point per level used, Protean would be basically unrecognizable (the heat vision is permanent and free until dismissed, claws would take 3 seconds to grow but last until dismissed, and the thing about the remaining ones is that three and four don't exist in PnP and the fifth is a *level seven* Protean ability), it's basically all like that.

Blood Buff would also be essentially permanent, since it too is a "scene" duration ability, scene being very movie-defined in PnP so it's a flexible amount of dramatic time impossible to define in a vidya solid value (examples in V20 for example define it ranging in time anywhere from "conversation at a park bench" to "storming a Tremere Chantry"), but of more important note would be that Blood Buff would not even be as Troika made it: It would allow you to just keep pumping those stats all the way until 6, three points of stat up and blood burned per 3 seconds. So it's better to stick to keeping them working within Bloodlines' own context than to make things like a PnP system that Bloodlines was not made to emulate.

Another example of this not related to Bloodheal and Disciplines would be that in PnP vampires CAN soak Lethal damage with Stamina, it's solely and only Aggravated that they can't, and guns wouldn't really do much good except specifically at the head like Jack says because all firearms only deal Bashing to vampires and vampires HALVE that damage rounded down after soak too (even a shotgun or assault rifle is downright puny compared to household sharp objects with equal skill used, especially after Potence and blood buff gets involved, and both are nothing compared to Protean Claw; Bite also deals aggravated damage but it needs wrassling to be used first so it's not that effective but Potence Bite is basically the rabbit from Holy Grail). Gist is that WoD PnP combat is very annoying swingy rocket tag where either no damage is dealt or either almost all or all the damage is dealt in one hit. The way Aggravated damage factors into this only breaks the PnP combat further, so it's actually Bite Tag or Claw Tag (albeit V5 has done a decent improvement by cutting down Protean's early access to Aggravated damage and capping Bite damage at two).

 

[Cael]

You'd also have to change the intro. There's the bit where Jack sends you to feed on the bum and/or the rats specifically to heal up from getting shot.

That's a good argument, so I'll keep it like it is! Bloodheal is a bit erratic anyway, as I had to simulate it by raising auto-healing-speed for a short while.

Another thing to note in regards to blood healing is that in PnP it's effectively instant, limited by turn and Generation.

And if you really went down the PnP with this matter, you'd also end up going with others, ie Potence and Fortitude would be permanently active for free, Obfuscate would be free, Presence would be free and permanent, Dominate would be free, depending on version of core book used Celerity may or may not drain blood point per level used, Protean would be basically unrecognizable (the heat vision is permanent and free until dismissed, claws would take 3 seconds to grow but last until dismissed, and the thing about the remaining ones is that three and four don't exist in PnP and the fifth is a *level seven* Protean ability), it's basically all like that.

Blood Buff would also be essentially permanent, since it too is a "scene" duration ability, scene being very movie-defined in PnP so it's a flexible amount of dramatic time impossible to define in a vidya solid value (examples in V20 for example define it ranging in time anywhere from "conversation at a park bench" to "storming a Tremere Chantry"), but of more important note would be that Blood Buff would not even be as Troika made it: It would allow you to just keep pumping those stats all the way until 6, three points of stat up and blood burned per 3 seconds. So it's better to stick to keeping them working within Bloodlines' own context than to make things like a PnP system that Bloodlines was not made to emulate.

Another example of this not related to Bloodheal and Disciplines would be that in PnP vampires CAN soak Lethal damage with Stamina, it's solely and only Aggravated that they can't, and guns wouldn't really do much good except specifically at the head like Jack says because all firearms only deal Bashing to vampires and vampires HALVE that damage rounded down after soak too (even a shotgun or assault rifle is downright puny compared to household sharp objects with equal skill used, especially after Potence and blood buff gets involved, and both are nothing compared to Protean Claw; Bite also deals aggravated damage but it needs wrassling to be used first so it's not that effective but Potence Bite is basically the rabbit from Holy Grail). Gist is that WoD PnP combat is very annoying swingy rocket tag where either no damage is dealt or either almost all or all the damage is dealt in one hit. The way Aggravated damage factors into this only breaks the PnP combat further, so it's actually Bite Tag or Claw Tag (albeit V5 has done a decent improvement by cutting down Protean's early access to Aggravated damage and capping Bite damage at two).

Don't forget in PnP that geting wounded fucks you up doing anything else while still wounded. The maluses are savage for wounds.

 

[conan_edw]

 

[Child of Malkav]

Sooooooooooooo......................................gameplay?

 

[ArchAngel]

Yea.. in about 5.5 months lol

 

[Child of Malkav]

Pdxcon in October 18 - 20th? I didn't see that.
Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaccccccckkkkkkkkkkkk................