Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Interview Vault Dweller interviewed about The New World at Indiegraze

Discussion in 'RPG Codex News & Content Comments' started by Infinitron, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    79,715
    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Tags: Iron Tower Studio; The New World; Vince D. Weller

    Vault Dweller is the latest developer to be interviewed by Indiegraze, the indie-focused interview site that also interviewed Hannah Williams of Whalenought Studios and the Disco Elysium team last year. The interview is strictly about The New World - its development, its setting, and a bit about its mechanics. Here's an excerpt:

    EM: The fact that the game world is a generation ship gives you a certain freedom as storytellers to repurpose the habitat and the cultures/religions/daily lives of the populace to your own ends. You can create factions that arise from the needs of spacefaring people, so what unique challenges come with fleshing out NPCs, locations, customs, and the quirks therein?

    VDW: We prefer to stick with realism whenever possible. As Joe Abercrombie of The First Law fame said, “Now some folks might say, “hey, it’s fantasy, it doesn’t have to be real,” but I’d say the exact opposite. It’s happening in a made up place, so it has to be more real than ever.”

    Thus, our main challenge is how to make the factions and characters (motivations, beliefs, agendas, goals, etc) realistic and believable in the context of the ‘made up’ setting. To do that, we turn to history: the French and Russian revolutions are a handy guide to class warfare, reigns of terror, and post-revolution factions, the early days of Deadwood are a good blueprint for our container town, plus the fascinating story of SMS Königsberg, New England’s Puritans, etc. It’s quite a mix but the same could be said about the AoD world.

    EM: You explain the inspiration for The New World title on your website, noting the parallels between the era of explorers/colonization and humanity’s desire to reach for the stars. In following, you note that the First Generation of ship inhabitants maintained a drive and an optimism that fell flat in the generations that followed, so to extend that thought, what is it about exploration that draws some people to leave homelands in search of fortune on foreign shores? And as generations become accustomed to the new space, how do we avoid stagnation?

    VDW: If John Glubb (the author of The Fate of Empires and Search for Survival) is to be believed, we can stop stagnation no more than we can stop winter from coming. It’s a seasonal thing.

    So it’s not that the new generations become accustomed to their new world, it’s that each generation moves further away from the beliefs of their fathers and forefathers, eventually coming full circle. The ancient Greeks noticed it first and our nature hasn’t changed much since then. We worship different gods and have different values, but our hardcoded nature remains the same. Note to aspiring developers: don’t hardcode things, nothing good comes from it.

    As for what draws people to leave their homes, I’d say it’s the promises of fresh starts and great opportunities (because the grass is always greener on the other side and the faraway lands are overflowing with milk and honey, which is a well-documented phenomenon).

    EM: Another big theme of the game seems to be grit, a keen disillusionment on the part of NPCs and the people in charge, so in a world filled with chaos and desperate people, what does the profile of success look like? Is it as simple as being really good or really evil, or what other personality/archetypes win the day?

    VDW: No matter how bleak things were in different periods in our history, there were always faction leaders and various opportunists who did pretty well for themselves. In fact, many believe that periods of chaos offer the best opportunities to rise above your station and redistribute some wealth in the process.

    The Thirty Years’ War was one of the bleakest points in the history of Europe, yet for Albrecht von Wallenstein, an impoverished noble born to a Protestant family, it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to become a supreme commander of the armies of the Holy Roman Empire and a major player in said war.

    Similarly, most characters who’re doing well in The New World owe their success not to being really good or really evil but to being able to adapt to the ever-changing circumstances better than most, recognizing opportunities and taking advantage of them before anyone else does. Survival of the fittest.

    EM: Even now, in our modern world, specialization means most people don’t know how to do everything. One guy might be a good carpenter or a good plumber but know nothing about fixing a cell phone or a laptop. As the technology of the First Generation has fallen to subsequent generations, what kinds of taboos and or unique, marketable talents can we expect to find? Has technology come to be viewed as something almost magical, or has it simply become mundane?

    VDW: Imagine a modern cruise ship’s passengers being marooned on an island. They won’t forget how to use a computer or a cellphone, but they won’t be able to build one from scratch without proper resources or to maintain their electronics indefinitely, so they will have to ‘switch’ to lower tech out of necessity.

    Same here. The Ship’s inhabitants can use high-tech weapons and gadgets, but they can’t build new weapons and devices without having access to proper machines and supplies. Instead, they make low-tech weapons and devices because they are relatively easy to produce. You can’t make new plasma cells, but you can make bullets using synthetic propellant. You can’t make plasma weapons, but you can make good ol’ fashioned firearms (ranging from crude to high quality guns made from machined parts).

    So the new marketable talents are gunsmithing, metal forging, scavenging the Ship for anything valuable, from Earth-made weapons and gadgets to implants in mummified corpses, and reactor maintenance.
    It's a nice interview, but I would have liked to read more. I guess you can only do a mega-interview every so often.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 13
    • Informative Informative x 5
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • Hoo Hoo x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. Iluvcheezcake Savant

    Iluvcheezcake
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    628
    Location:
    Le Balkans
    Nicely written.

    Clarity of purpose :)
     
    ^ Top  
  3. oscar Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    oscar
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,476
    Location:
    NZ
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. mvBarracuda Liturgist

    mvBarracuda
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    317
    Good read. Thanks for sharing.
     
    ^ Top  
  5. Fenix Cipher Vatnik

    Fenix
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    4,221
    Location:
    Russia atchoum!
    What about gypsies? I can assure you they were the same thousand year ago. Not all "generation moves further away from the beliefs of their fathers and forefathers, eventually coming full circle".

    I saw a few opportunities in my life - I didn't used them because of considerations of morality, maybe it looks for obserbers like I was dumb and unable to "recognizing opportunities and taking advantage of them before anyone else does" but it was different.
    So...
     
    ^ Top  
  6. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,394
    To a distant observer, any culture seems the same it always was. Can you tell the difference between Japanese 60's and 70s' generations? I can't yet I doubt they were identical in their beliefs. Same with gypsies, while the lifestyle is the same, doesn't mean the generations are the same.

    It's hard to comment without knowing what exactly you're referring to. Not every 'opportunity' you're offered is an actual opportunity.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Salute Salute x 1
    • Hoo Hoo x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. DSW Novice

    DSW
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    30
    No one RPG delivers or will deliver in near future realistic motivation of game agents. All motivations, starting from what to eat today and ending with whom to pray, are object of environment. If the game has money or its equivalent then motivations are object of economy, the weakest, most broken part of all RPG ever produced. Either your PC has unrestricted access to the money or has a ridiculous restrictions to resources. Therefore, every RPG ends up with PC and NPCs acting like Hollywood heroes or villains, not like rational subjects of game world. There is only tiny niches for Miltiades, most charming startup in way to train wreck. The rest is fedex or mercenaries quests, which are 100 % proof that nothing is about realistic motivation. By the way, wichter makes a lot of diviydends with PC as mercenary boy only. Hope NW will deliver several miltiadeses. That will be triumph.
     
    • Bad Spelling Bad Spelling x 3
    ^ Top  
  8. Fenix Cipher Vatnik

    Fenix
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    4,221
    Location:
    Russia atchoum!
    Because gypsies are the same. That blatant dismissal... don't know what to say.
    There are nations or sicieties that live diffrent way - they don't build empires, but they doesn't change and doesn't extinct.
    While modern family have 1 kid or 2 at best - and 50 years ago it was 2-3 and 100 years it was 4-5, gypsies are the same in this.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Kyl Von Kull The Night Tripper Patron

    Kyl Von Kull
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2017
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Jamrock District
    Gypsy... gypsy never changes...

    Seriously? A thousand years ago they were still nomads moving from the Middle East into Europe. A few hundred years earlier and they were a branch of the army in the Pratihara Empire in India. Today’s roma would be unrecognizable to their ancestors from a thousand years ago. Institutionalized begging was not a viable career option in medieval Europe.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • butthurt butthurt x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. Zeriel Arcane

    Zeriel
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2012
    Messages:
    6,545
    Fenix is evidently the Cleveland Blakemore of gypsy theorizing.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. huskarls Educated

    huskarls
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Messages:
    70
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    • Racist Racist x 2
    ^ Top  
  12. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    4,500
    Location:
    California
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Salute Salute x 2
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. oscar Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    oscar
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,476
    Location:
    NZ
    • incline incline x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Kyl Von Kull The Night Tripper Patron

    Kyl Von Kull
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2017
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Jamrock District
    Good point...

    However, while they may be called mendicants, the Franciscans and Dominicans were trading spiritual services in exchange for material support; if anything they were the ones dispensing charity. The mendicants were the hardest working monastic orders around.

    At their least organized, they were more like buskers than beggars; their preaching was the best entertainment many of these communities would see for weeks or even months. Say you wanted your Christian children to learn how to read, in some rural areas itinerant Franciscans were the sum total of the non-vocational education system owing to the often poor quality of the local priests.

    When your motto is non sibi soli vivere sed et aliis proficere (not to live only for oneself, but to benefit others) you’re more like a medieval peace corps, or Teach for America. Plus, after the initial burst of enthusiasm for lay preachers died down about a generation after Saint Francis, you had to be ordained to be an intinerant friar.

    If this is institutionalized begging then we’d have to lump in the whole church as beggars. I don’t necessarily object to that characterization, but it’s like theft: on a large enough scale it stops being called crime and starts being called government. I suspect anyone calling the Franciscans beggars in a non-romance vernacular would’ve found himself very unpopular.

    The Dominicans also worked their asses off hunting down heresy for the inquisition or preaching against it, maybe not a great use of their time, but it’s still value for money. If the king of France is paying your bills so you can help him get rid of the Cathars, that’s employment.

    Hermits tended to have relatively solitary day jobs to support themselves, unless their reputation for holiness allowed them to live off the contributions of visitors seeking spiritual guidance. Again, I’d call that a service profession.

    As for the beggars badges, I suppose I should have used a clearer word than institutionalized. I meant something more like socially institutionalized, where begging is the family business.

    Still, to an extent these laws prove my point. Is it a viable career option if the penalty for an able bodied adult caught begging is a brand in the face or banishment? I don’t mean to deny the existence of a medieval safety net, but it would be a mistake to assume this was particularly generous. Most of this aid was either temporary like modern welfare/unemployment insurance, or it was something you could collect after aging out of the workforce or getting maimed, so social security/disability. I wouldn’t call either of those a career.

    The disbursement of alms also had a strict hierarchy: Christians before non Christians (and established Christians before converts or the descendants of converts), family/clan before outsiders, disabled before able bodied, and in Castile impoverished nobles before poor commoners. All of this is coming from a small pot as there wasn’t a ton of agricultural surplus. Hence these penalties for unlicensed begging that can be nearly as bad as the penalties for theft.

    Specifically with regard to the Roma, who were often viewed as non-Christian or insincere-Christian outsiders, charity tended to take the form of settling them as serfs on manorial land. They’d get themselves in trouble with the authorities because they were far more likely to leave en masse if mistreated. But however the modern day Roma are currently viewed in Eastern Europe, I doubt anyone thinks of them as serfs.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. HoboForEternity Watch over avatarless peasants Patron

    HoboForEternity
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Messages:
    5,902
    Location:
    Disco Elysium
    this is why i codex. came for interviews and goes with interesting tidbits of history that i never knew exist
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Hoo Hoo x 1
    ^ Top  
  16. Bohrain Savant Patron

    Bohrain
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Messages:
    821
    It's a shame so few developers bother reading history, there are so many settings I'd want to see explored.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    ^ Top  
  17. Iluvcheezcake Savant

    Iluvcheezcake
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    628
    Location:
    Le Balkans
    Just imagine ..... Expeditions: Gypsies .... or Crusader Kings: Gypsy edition (Gypsy Kings?) ....
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Excited! Excited! x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities Patron

    AwesomeButton
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    8,061
    Location:
    At large
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    This interview reinforces my interest in the game, but I'd rather continue to stay away from more info and updates about it until it ships. Go, Iron Tower!
     
    ^ Top  
  19. ArtB Erudite Patron

    ArtB
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    728
    Location:
    Surrounded by smog and machetes
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Ask, and ye shall receive:
    [​IMG]

    Just imagine those dudes in crowns, I guess.

    Alternatively, imagine it being about a bunch of Tyson Fury doppelgangers.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Hoo Hoo x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. Iluvcheezcake Savant

    Iluvcheezcake
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    628
    Location:
    Le Balkans
    Daaaaaaaamn :D :D
     
    ^ Top  
  21. Diggfinger Cipher

    Diggfinger
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Messages:
    698
    Location:
    Belgium
    So much good sh*t here.
    ...building on the Fallout formula (C&C)..
    ...striving to make it feel 'real' by deep study into history...
    ...obviously tons of thought put into setting and how (opportunistic) people would act given the freedom/constraints of such a ship setting (Thomas Stanton)
    ...cool how advanced tech is available but not abundant due to people gradually losing knowledge/skills to make such equipment...

    Everything looks and sounds so cool :positive:

    it warms my heart and lubes my butthole.
    Plz, Iron Tower, go ahead and Make RPGs Great Again!!
    :patriot:
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 4
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)