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KickStarter Vigilantes: neo-noir, turn based tactical RPG

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Timeslip, Aug 27, 2016.

  1. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
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    Overall make them much more impactful, make them part of who the character is and what he does. Dont hand them out often, and maybe even lock them behind quests or NPCs.
    Dont use cooldowns, ever, just give them an AP cost.

    Intimidating presence "Character with this feat imposes a penalty to hit on any enemy near him, he will also tend to draw enemy fire"
    In the Zone "Activate this feat to Make every hit a crit for the next round (make a crit table, have this ability improve the results in the roll), the duration is extended by one round every time you kill an enemy with a crit. Can only be used once per mission"
    Hunker down "Passive: Reduce explosive damage by half, Active: activate this ability to make the next ranged atack you receive to miss automatically"
    Take em out "Active: your whole team does 50% extra damage on hit for the next round. 1 use, recharges on a crit kill".
    Tough as nails "Passive: you take 25% less damage from any source".
    Heres Johnny "Every time you miss your hit chance increases. The bonus resets once youve hit. Larger bonus on melee attacks"
    Tis but a scratch "Increase your hitpoints by a sizeable amount, Active: can shrug off all negative conditions once per mission"
    Vengeance "Increase all damage against anyone that hits you. Heal a small amount of HP once youve killed someone that hurt you"
    Gun Kata "Active: You are considered behind heavy cover for the next round. Passive: 25% chance to counter attack once before your next turn. can use a ranged weapon in melee without penalty, you can also use as a melee weapon using your ranged skill" alternatively, use the melee skill modifier to hit with a melee or ranged weapon while you are under the effect of Gun Kata.
    My name is Inigo Montoya "Active: Pick an enemy that has hit one of your allies. You lose all benefits from cover until the start of your next turn. Get a sizeable bonus to hit and damage, automatically draw his fire "
     
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  2. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    Thanks for the feedback. I swapped out "In the Zone" for "Controlled Breathing" which was suggested by a player, which gives +10% CTH in the round it is activated in, then -20% CTH in the next round. This seemed like a more interesting perk, as it would be good to use if you planned on reloading next round, or healing.
     
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  3. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    Some really good ideas here, thanks Lhynn . I'd be concerned that some of them might be a bit too powerful: (Take Em Out / Tough as Nails) for early game perks, but there are some very neat ideas here. At the minute, you get a perk every second level, so you should be able to pick up around 15+ over the course of the game. Is this too many? Since you get quite a few, I've been trying to make the lower level ones not too game changing.

    Another possibility is having multiple perk levels for some perks, which increases the impact and adds extra effects for every level of the perk.
     
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  4. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
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    Make it every 4 or 5 levels, put requirements on them, make them AP costly, or better yet, divorce them from levels entirely, and tie them to ingame progression, maybe in your whole playthrough youll get to pick only 3 feats, and the choice will come up after a big event (which has several advantages for the game designer and is thematically fitting). Maybe the options in this feat selection screen could be tied to missions you did, special achievements, or choices of allies you made on the past(tho in the third case i dislike the idea of tying character building directly with the narrative, because it leads to players powergaming the narrative, and you dont want that), which would encourage a more completionist approach but still leave room for people that dont care for that.

    Take Em Out could consume your max AP for instance, essentially giving up your turn to direct your allies fire, in that case it wouldnt return benefits unless you had a big team (larger than 3). You can always tweak the AP cost.
    Tough as Nails is a defense feat, unless you make them good nobody will take them, because a dead enemy cant shoot back, so you essentially have immunity to their damage.
     
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  5. ArchAngel Arcane

    ArchAngel
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    I agree that if you are going more gamist approach with perks (like nuXcom) they should give big benefits like in nuXcom but I don't think you should get only a few. Actually a better move would be to not have 30 character levels but 20 or less but keep them every second level.
    As for cooldowns, I say you can use them in some cases when it makes sense that your character would need to take a short break (like if you had a perk that gives a burst of speed).

    Of course even Codex approved games like Underrail had cooldowns for everything because it is easier to balance for indie developers so don't be afraid to use that if you have to.
     
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  6. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    I'll certainly give it some thought, cheers for the ideas. Right now the perks aren't balanced as such: they all have low requirements so they are accessible with minimal time investment, and I'm holding off on balancing until more are added to get a better picture of how they fit in, in terms of one another. I take your point on making them more impactful. Regardless of how many perks you can get, some of them (whether through higher requirements, or multiple levels of the same perk) will make a bigger impact on your character. I actually ended up renaming Take Em Out to Tag, but I can see a place for Take Em Out as you described it as a high level leadership perk.

    Vigilantes is leaning much more towards the TB RPGs of the 90's with a few select modern innovations, such as modern type cover and abilities which can be activated. There will be many more passive perks than active ones, there will probably be around 10 of the latter. Cooldowns definitely help with balance, and in some cases (like controlled breathing +10 Ranged CTH Turn 1 / -20% Ranged CTH turn 2) they will be necessary. Balancing the perk benefits and requirements with all these factors is going to be tricky, but I'll do my best with it. Thanks for the ideas!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  7. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    In case you'd like more info on the new unarmed/blunt/bladed attacks, here's a video showing them in action. Comments welcome!



    If you haven't tried Vigilantes out, an older demo is available for Win, Linux and Mac here, a more feature & content rich current version can be purchased here, and the Steam page is here!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
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  8. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    A feature we haven't talked much about so far, but is effectively definite is the ability to build a base of operations. Five facilities are currently planned: Workshop, Library, Gym, Firing Range & Bullet Press, Surgery. Each can be upgraded 5 times, and provide a variety of benefits, ranging from buffs, skill & stat gains, enhanced crafting options, a chance of free items on a timed basis. Olga has just finished up with the workshop illustrations, so here's the level 4 version. It will be a few more updates before the feature is added, but it is on the way.

    [​IMG]

    Based on a neat suggestion by anus_pounder I've also added 2 debuffs: Lightly Wounded & Heavily wounded, when your health drops below certain levels. This reduces your AP and CTH, making you less effective in combat. Jimmious made a suggestion I really liked too: allowing enemies to flee, level up and come back after you later. Have made decent progress in putting this in place: enemies can now flee. There's a little more work in storing the extra data, adding flee areas to maps, and managing the level ups, but it's difficult to see this not being added at this point. Chances are it will make it into V14, albeit in a basic form. It's not going to have a massive effect on gameplay immediately, it needs more fleshing out and work, but once the basic functionality is in place, it's generally easy enough to tweak. It proved to be a little more complex than expected and had a pretty frustrating 10 hour day today, and pretty much just cracked it now. Fortunately, got a haircut yesterday, which prevented the tearing out of much hair!

    If you have any comments or questions about these new features, fire away!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
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  9. anus_pounder Arcane

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    :salute: Looking good.
     
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  10. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    Cheers!
     
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  11. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    Timeslip can enemies raid players facilities?
     
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  12. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    Hey Taka-Haradin puolipeikko - Thanks for the suggestion. To be honest, I hadn't considered it, but will add it to the list of possibilities.
     
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  13. Alienman Arcane Patron

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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    When aliens raid your base in the original X-com game it is one of the most intense moments. Make it like that :P
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
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  14. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    Though you're going to need a story explanation why gangs won't track your vigilantes down once they have found one of your base of operations.
     
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  15. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    Did they mostly use terror troops when attacking your base like Crysilids? It's been a while, but I think I remember losing a base because of rookies getting killed and turning against you.

    Yeah, guess once they have the location, they can continuously attack. One option would be to allow this, but with a decent interval, or to allow the player to move their base for a fee.

    Version 14 is now available for Windows and uploading for Mac. Working on Linux version now, should be available in an hour or 2. Will make a development video to show the changes soon, but if you want a quick look at the new features, they are all here.
     
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  16. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    Or just explain in text that warehouse owners that don't remember excess detail about customers (when good money is paid up front) are relatively easy to come by.

    It probably would be better that instead of outright raid by one of the gangs. Player would have to intervene when criminal activity in the sector where facility is situated reaches a certain threshold.
    In which case case game would prompt player to take special defensive mission or lose tier of the workshop. And/or move it to different place. Fear of the consequences of losing anonymity is frequently used trope in fiction about vigilantes.
     
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  17. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
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    Loss of a tier of the workshop seems too lenient. force the player to move or suffer more attacks.
     
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  18. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    All facilities are located under one roof, so at a minimum, the loss of a defensive mission could be -1 tier for 5 facilities. Also worth considering the possibility that losing a defensive mission could be a defeat condition.
     
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  19. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    I was thinking of the lines, that if you don't interfere they are going to burgle the place because no one in the neighborhood doesn't any longer gives a shit about grinder in the padlock noises because gunshots are all too common.
    Besides I thought I implicated that exposure makes moving necessary.
     
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  20. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
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    :bounce:
    Thatd be great, or at least a "lose everything start over" kinda deal.
    Also im fully expecting a femme fatale ambush at home scenario.
    Im fully expecting tons of vigilante and action movie tropes played straight. The moment i think of the potential of this i :bounce:
    Do not half ass it, make it B movie great, that means damsels in distress, femme fatales, rivals, bromances, flashback fights, fighting a ultimate one man army badass, the whole thing.
     
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  21. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    I have been considering quite a few possibilities for enhancing Vigilantes. There's no way on this green earth that I can do them all, but picking the ones that offer the best return to the game in relation to the time required is going to result in a deeper, better game. Going to make a video soon to outline these possibilities. I'd feel much better about doing this if I have the support of the people who kindly backed Vigilantes on Kickstarter. Since many codexians backed, I thought I'd start by asking here. Assuming no risk to project completion, do you think there would be a positive reaction to a few more months of development in exchange for a more feature and content rich game?
     
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  22. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Depends.
    Does that interfere with the start of Steam early access?
    Full disclosure: I didn't back this game, but I'll be willing to buy the early access version and I have a few nephews and whatnot that will have this gifted to them.
    Besides Game dev is always late.
     
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  23. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    That's why you use couple of tanks in base defense.
     
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  24. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
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    No, if anything itd be strange if you didnt. RPGs are complex things and always take more time than planned, and a lot of ideas come up during development.
    A few codexian examples would probably be Battle Brothers, Age of Decadence, Underrail (if i remember correctly). All beloved games.
    Just make sure you get there and dont bite more than you can chew, you can always leave stuff for the sequel or the dlc.
     
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  25. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    They can do more than that. (In semi realistic scenario.)
    They can find out who is paying for the rent of the place. They can silently observe who goes in and out.
     
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