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KickStarter Vigilantes: neo-noir, turn based tactical RPG

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Timeslip, Aug 27, 2016.

  1. Dickie Arcane

    Dickie
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    I have the NPCs fight with me. They all seem to be decent fighters and they all carry medkits to heal themselves. That one dude wearing nothing but shorts is a badass for sure. He always manages to take out at least three enemies himself. When I encounter NPCs, they're usually better than my guys (higher HP and much better accuracy). Maybe it depends on how fast you are progressing through the game.

    With the construction worker, the enemies seem to usually not bother attacking him, or I just have him spend two turns running towards my other guys while using medkits on himself. The last time I did it on Hero, they brought him down so fast there was nothing I could do. It was like they blamed him for everything. I had him survive the first two times I did it on Hero, and then the game locked up on me with a couple enemies left. The third time, they killed him dead without even bothering to attack my guys until he was in the ground. That time, the game spawned more enemies near him than usual, so I guess it's kind of random.

    Has anyone else had the game lock up on them? It's like it's trying to complete an action that it can't complete and seems to be related to using medkits (maybe clicking too fast when using multiple medkits on a turn?). The animation will go and the healing will be done, but then it just hangs. If I try to do anything, it says something about needing to wait for an action to complete. It can be very frustrating sometimes when things are going very well.

    I also ran into the bug again where every shot would level up my firearms skill one to two times. It went from 130 to 145 in a few turns. Very strange stuff.
     
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  2. ushas Savant

    ushas
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    Uff, Mr. worker lives:)

    That was my usual experience. Thankfully, exposing Ray, hiding and smoking helped in the end. I remember the senator lady as more tricky for me to keep alive as well.

    Yes, with multiple medkids. Do you remember their number, if it reached 0?
     
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  3. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Arcane

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    I had the same happen to me, but with close combat. Went from 133 to 148 during single fight.
     
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  4. Chaotic_Heretic Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Chaotic_Heretic
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    Guys, gonna start this since Bugfinder:Patchmaker's latest patch introduces yet more bugs.

    Non-spoilery Tips for a beginner?
     
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  5. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
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    Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Play with harder difficulties. Get the followers ASAP. Try to avoid downtime as much as possible, enemies will level up and you can get fuck'd.
     
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  6. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    There's a pretty big difference between Vigilante and Hard Boiled difficulty. Have heard quite a few people say they gave up their hard-boiled playthrough because it got too tough. Might be worth playing a few hours on Vigilante, seeing how it feels and move up to hard boiled if it's too easy. Would also suggest hitting danger level 1 tiles until you can take on harder ones without taking massive damage, as healing is a time sink.
     
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  7. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    There is a bug reported with medkits, but I haven't been able to recreate it. Any chance you will enable player log in game options, and send me the log the next time it happens. Would be keen to figure out what's wrong and fix it. There's info on how to do this here. The level up bug is likely to do with changes made to max skill level in last few updates. I'll fix it in next update and will also look at buffing the construction worker a bit - he's up against very high level enemies.
     
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  8. Dickie Arcane

    Dickie
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    I don't think it reached 0, but I used 3-4 in one turn each time.

    To add to what Haba said, here are some basic tips.
    • Try to keep Sam from getting injured in combat. You can quickly heal everyone else by setting them to rest mode on the team management screen in the base, when you are crafting stuff.
    • Use incendiary grenades, especially when fighting the cultists. You can block off paths to slow them down, since they'll usually try to not run through fire.
    • Try to get two people whom you don't plan to use in combat, and get their Surveillance and Bypass to 60 early, so they can start stealing supplies.
    • Buy medium calibre rounds and weapon parts every time the shop refreshes, as these are the two things I'm always running out of.
     
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  9. Dickie Arcane

    Dickie
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    Sure. I'll try to remember to turn it on next time I play. The bug is rare because I hardly ever end up using a bunch of medkits in one turn. I think I've been playing around 30 hours and maybe had this happen four times. Two of them happened to be back-to-back attempts at the same tough fight, so I wish I had known to turn on the log then.

    The level up bug doesn't bother me at all, so you can just leave it in there if you want. :) I only mentioned it because it seemed like a bug. It's nice to level up twice in the same fight.
     
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  10. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Arcane

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    I agree with weapon parts, but my combined arms type team didn't have problem with medium calibre rounds.
    Smoke grenades and high level incendiaries (or stuff from which you craft those) were my priority buys.
     
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  11. Dickie Arcane

    Dickie
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    Yeah, I do buy all the explosive chemicals I can get to level up grenades, but I see that you could avoid running out of medium ammo. I generally have three people using 2 medium ammo per turn for what seems like most of the game, so it goes fast.

    What guns do you use? I tend to use the medium caliber pistols and assault rifles. I like the SMG that has single shot mode for finishing off almost-dead dudes, until I can craft the best pistol. I tried shotguns some, but they never seem to hit more than one target. Is it possible to hit more than one enemy in the cone at once? I shot four times at three enemies, all with 80+% chance to hit and never hit more than one, so I figured that they can't. If they can hit multiple targets and I was just super unlucky, I'd consider using them more. Sniper rifles are OK, but assault rifles just seem better, since two shots is usually better than one. I sometimes give a sniper rifle to Arcadi, since his firearms skill lags behind the others while I pump his presence, so the bonus accuracy is nice.
     
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  12. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Arcane

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    Yes you can, but shotguns shine as over watch weapons.
    My usual team was:
    Show Spoiler

    Sam, shotgun, but he also had baton (close combat was his primary combat skill). 2nd type pump shotgun has burst fire that was quite usually used as opening attack. Probably won't drop enemies but causes some damage and armor deterioration, also explodes barrels reliably.
    Emilia: Precision rifle + medium calibre round using pistol. Sniper/medic role, often hidden in cover + smoke. Also 0AP reloading item was god sent and allowed her to keep steady rate of fire.
    Ray: Mainly used heavy close combat weapon (gotta love interrupt/AOO attacks with sledgehammer), but also had small calibre pistol as backup.
    Edgar: Melee and grenadier, never wielded a firearm during my campaign.

    Elena was my main reservist. Usually replaced Ray or Edgar who took often brunt of the incoming damage. SMG + bladed weapon. Fastest gun in reiker, more crits & better crits -perks +laser sight and upgraded bullets. Weapon jams happen a lot when you use overcharged bullets on SMGs on sustained firefights. I had to scrounge battlefield for other firearm couple of times.
    Didn't really use Arcadi or Caia after early game.

    This was on Hard Boiled difficulty, no idea how viable that playstyle is on Hero.
     
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  13. Dickie Arcane

    Dickie
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    This thing works? I had it work the first time I used it but never again. Every subsequent battle, my first reload would still use AP. I assumed it worked only for revolvers, but I was told in this thread it's supposed to work with all weapons. It would be so great.

    So you use three melee people? Interesting. I've only used one person melee at a time, but I normally just have four people with guns to help me not take damage. Are the melee weapons worth it? It seemed like I was dealing more damage with upgraded fists and the brass knuckles than any of the weapons I tried. Mainly this was because you can do three attacks with 9 AP or four attacks fairly often with flurry, and winded combines nicely with the AP penalty from wounds to keep enemies from retaliating. I think the unarmed was doing around 20-30 damage per hit, which is pretty good damage. I also like dim mak for over-watching around a corner to paralyze people before they can attack me.
     
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  14. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Arcane

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    I used it quite often in combination with precision rifle.
    Though it would be nice if "reload" -button told you that you have that 0AP reload because of said item.

    Melee worked for me well enough.
    I'm not really the most enthusiastic optimizer when I play.
    Let's just say that Ray's basic attack with sledgehammer did 40-70+ damage; that's before you factor in heavier attack types and his unique perk. Very good if you get those free interrupts and AOOs.

    I never bothered to take special attack type perks.
     
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  15. ushas Savant

    ushas
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    Ok. Don't recall if should've reached 0 in my case neither (doesn't have to if there is some window of opportunity for several clicks to be registered), but it was similar to your situation. Also an NPC, the boxer. Used several kits, clicking during animation time already, and it ended in unresponsive state with count '[0]'. Happened with my guys also with IED grenades, 'wait till current action completes' and '[0]'. When you reach zero it switches the hand to fists, so was just wondering what happens when in the right moment we try to do switching weapons too. Think I was trying to do something like that, either by clicking at image or using Tab. Anyway, this is just silly musing on my side. If you can manage to catch it again with the log, it would be useful.
     
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  16. ushas Savant

    ushas
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    A kind of like to use AOEs of shotguns and grenades on foes and barrels next to them. There is something neat about pulling it off.

    Re HtH, have impression it's more reliable early on, better cth, but later sledgehammer outdamages fists. Think HtH base damage is still lower per AP in comparison to the hammer at Prowess 10. The difference grows further with skill and modifiers we pile up. For example, Gym lvl 5 (+30%) + leadership perk (+40%) + Destroyer (+20%) + skill ~100, the fully upgraded hammer might do around 70+ dam, while HtH around 20+. Of course, there are other practical factors. I use both styles as needed with Edgar the grenadier, for overwatch and any nearby enemy, and he truly is a monster.

    Do you rotate allies based on the gang? I recall Caia's perk gives bonus against Churchers, was initially surprised how she shoots them so well with rifle.

    What does his perk actually do?

    I also find assault rifles having possibly better performance. With good skill one hits quite often with burst. Dunno, perhaps something like lowering CTH for assault and upping critical % for precision rifles could be interesting.

    That would be cool.
    So far, Speed Loader worked with all types of guns I used. Dickie, haven't you said it was some specific pistol?
     
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  17. Dickie Arcane

    Dickie
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    I might give the hammer a go next time. I wasn't impressed with the bats, knives, the baton, nor the katana. Although, as Taka-Haradin mentioned above, the hammer or maybe any weapon would be better for interrupts. Does anything increase your interrupt chance?

    I just pick the three people I'm going to use at the start and gear them towards combat. Two of the others get surveillance and bypass to 50 to do supply raids, then I forget about them, unless I need to dump more points into surveillance later to get some intel. The other person just gets crafting.

    I hadn't thought of that, but if I recall, it was with the pistol you get from Valentina. I think that's her name, the mafia chick at the construction site. As I remember it, I got that gun shortly after making my first and only speedloader. This was my first game, so it was a while back.
     
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  18. ushas Savant

    ushas
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    Next time, am thinking to try Caia as a hybrid with blades and pistols. Good Prowess and Instinct, high criticals. Maybe will reach 60+ dam with katana.

    Not sure how it works currently. There are two mechanics, AOO that triggers with movement, and Interrupt of ranged attacks. Possibly initiatives are compared. So increasing Fleetness, taking initiative perk and wearing the grips. CC skill might play the role too based on the description (at minimum chance to hit). Dunno if AP cost of attack?
     
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  19. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Arcane

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    Change to give extra damage against one adjacent enemy; often enough to oneshot specialists.
    I think.
     
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  20. Nutria Savant

    Nutria
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    On my second attempt, and after getting some advice from you and everyone else in this thread, I realized that a lot of my problem was that I just needed to get good. Of course, in any game that has difficulty levels, you're going to struggle with the easy mode teaching you to do stuff that you can't get away with on the hard mode. Like your tactics against the cult change radically when they start throwing grenades at you.

    What made me quit is just that I got burned out because your game was so good that I played it about 25 hours in one week. I'll come back to it later though.
     
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  21. Dickie Arcane

    Dickie
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    Finished it on Hero difficulty this morning. It was mostly downhill after killing the first lieutenant and getting a good gun. The fight with the mafia boss seems like the hardest in the game, by far.

    Show Spoiler
    If I use bypass to climb over the wall, I can take out the boss, but the enemies are right up your ass to start. I find it easier to just attack from outside the walls.
     
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  22. ushas Savant

    ushas
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    That's cool:salute: How long do you think it took you?
     
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  23. Timeslip Timeslip Softworks Patron Developer

    Timeslip
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    Initiative is the biggest factor, if recall correctly.
     
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  24. Dickie Arcane

    Dickie
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    How long for just the Hero playthrough? Not that long. 10-12 hours, maybe? The enemies level up so fast that you can't just take your time. I think it was over around July 15th or 16th. Even this early in the game, the bosses were level 18-19 and have around 200 HP. Hell, even the standard mooks had around 100 HP at this point. I don't think you'd have any hope of keeping up with them once your primary combat skill is maxed out. I think Sam was level 22-ish at this point. I never put any skill points into combat skills, except during character creation, so that I can use them to level up.

    Here's some spoilers about how I did it.
    Show Spoiler

    Take out Lucchesi first. He's the mafia lieutenant you fight in the train yard place. The position you start in for that fight can give you a real edge if you use incendiary grenades once a few guys come up the middle route. The rest will try to go around the building and only one or two will make it before the fire wears out and they run back up the middle. You can use this to fight a handful at a time, as long as you have your people standing one space from the corner of the building. Have at least one person with a good supply (6-8) level three incendiary grenades. Some of the enemies will just rush through the fire, but they'll get softened up a bit, and this helps big time.

    The important thing about this fight, besides it being one of the easier lieutenant fights, is you get one of the top weapons in the game. It's that golden-colored assault rifle. Sorry, I can't remember gun names. Anyway, with this, you can give it to somebody with the soldier and athletic perks and at least 8 AP/turn and they can easily take out any of the lieutenants that will agree to a duel.

    I can't recall the order of all the lieutenants, but as you kill them, you'll get the good guns that allow you to kill the hell out of the rest of the lieutenants without much trouble.

    I took down the mafia boss first and got the machine gun, and that made the other two super easy. I hadn't used the machine gun before, but I got one after that fight. That damn thing can easily do 200 damage with a 3-shot burst. I'm wondering if I could've done this fight sooner, but I doubt it.

    The trick to the mafia boss was similarly full of incendiary grenades. I assaulted the main entrance and ran to the left, throwing incendiary grenades behind me as I went, and taking some snap shots. I didn't have anybody fire more than one shot, so they could keep moving. Once I got my people around the bend in the wall on the left side, I would have my dudes each step out and fire one shot then move back away from the edge. I had my grenadier tossing incendiary grenades into the enemies' path to slow them down and soften them up. Also, using leg shots helps a lot more than you'd think, especially once you take out the boss and they have the ronin debuff. -3 AP from being wounded, ronin, and hobbled makes them usually unable to attack once they move around the corner on you.
     
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  25. ushas Savant

    ushas
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    That's interesting. Thanks for info. Will check the spoiler part once am done with remaining two bosses.


    Collected some additional tips if useful for first time Hard Boiled (though nothing new in this thread):

    - Invest into Fleetness early, at least 7 to have better APs, 8 is good for Athletic for better mobility, Gym adds +1.
    - If wish for shorter campaign, focus early on leveling through combat skills and obtaining better weapons asap.
    - Good to increase Bypass on everyone on team, every ten points let you reposition one more tile before the fight.
    - During reposition round already try to keep units more than one tile away from each other, to minimize chance of grenade shower Nutria mentioned.
    - Have enough trauma kits for everyone on team, keep an eye on MaxHP, Toughness is handy on HB, max armour upgrade (40% res) requires Workshop 4.
    - Don't forget to repair. Armour loses protection with damage, can break within one fight. If max weight allows, can bring a spare one to switch when needed.
    - Speaking of time sinks, battles themselves will cost time based on number of turns it took to win. Think they can last from two to ten hours or so.
    - Ranged gets penalized and cover is more effective at night. So if having troubles with survivalist snipers, apart smoke grenades, maybe try night time.
    - Even regular battles could have an enemy leader, it's usually worth to locate and make him the priority target.
    - If looking for some info, LordLancelot screenshoted the hell out of the game and is making an overview guide
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1535598757
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
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