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VtM Bloodlines v8.8 unofficial patch by Wesp5

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Chaotic_Heretic, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. ghostdog Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

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    this.
     
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  2. Echo Mirage Arcane

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    I always though Jacks boss had killed everyone on the Elizabeth Dane, Makes sense that he had been sleeping inside it at some point. That would help explain the uncertain feeling of uneasiness that the LA kindred felt when the ship arrived.
     
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  3. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

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    It's possible but i doubt he'd be 'sleeping' thorough (torpor is involuntary). The ship log you can access during the mission mentions that crew was going missing during the voyage in the best Dracula tradition. Either conscious taxi-driver, Jack signing up as a sailor or both. Possibly he could have stayed in the box a while before getting out to kill, then hiding again waiting for the port for the more general massacre, but that would be boring, very boring, especially to someone who can hide in any shadow (or for that matter, create shadows).
     
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  4. uaciaut Savant

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    Grout said the voices talked about how heinous Lacroix's crimes, past and future were, to the extend that they instilled terror into him that he simply was not able to hide (hence why he hid in the firs place). So i figured Lacroix did some pretty ugly shit to scare the malk that badly. Then again the vision/madness could be exaggerating, you never know with malks. I just thought the guy was too obsessed to diablerize Messerat and he came too quickly to power, but if auspex from someone like say Strauss could reveal diablerie then he probably just did something else that's really bad but doesn't leave a mark.


    It's more likely Jack did the grunt work while the other guy (whatever type of elder he was, maybe even Caine) just stuck with laying out the plan. The way Jack reacts to when you first tell him that Lacroix sent you to the Elizabeth Dane for the sarcophagus kind of indicates that he knows about it at least.


    Never thought of Mercurio, but this is mostly because i don't find him a plot-critic character, so i'm not sure it's him that the seer is talking about still.

    It ain't Jack, he lies to you. Becket never does. And neither does the seer.
     
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  5. Echo Mirage Arcane

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    I was I always thought of it was that the sarcophagus was nothing more then Caine's (if it is him) means of transportation. Its only after you tell Jack about Lacroix's desire to have it that the plan started to come together.
     
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  6. uaciaut Savant

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    I doubt the taxi driver (caine or whoever who is) went to the effort to find a mummy that would look like Messerat's just to fool Jack.
     
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  7. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

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    Thinking about it, from a more informed position, the taxi driver gives me major noddist vibes. 'The blood of Caine'? Please, can you say 'True Black Hand' anyone? He also doesn't give a shit about which sub-faction you end backing either.
     
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  8. Xor Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Considering that Beckett has no ties to any of the power structures in the game (he only works with LaCroix to satisfy curiosity about the sarcophagus) and literally appears to you in the form of a wolf the first time you meet him, I'd say the seer was probably talking about him. Also as someone else mentioned, Jack lies to you and Beckett never does.

    It's never directly stated, but from what I gather Jack killed everyone on the ship, stole the sarcophagus, and replaced the mummy with C4. Then he manipulated the player into taking out all the Anarchs' rivals - LaCroix, the Kuei Jin, and even the Society of Leopold get wiped out, leaving the Anarchs practically in control of the city. Assuming the player doesn't side with LaCroix or Ming Xiao for whatever reason. The game certainly doesn't give you much reason to.

    Checked my vampire core book. Shows how good my memory is. The black marks do fade after a few years. However anyone with thaumaturgy and the path of blood (that's the thaumaturgy path you use in-game) can detect diablarists even after the marks fade, and it's safe to assume Strauss has path of blood since it's the first path taught to practically every Tremere.

    It's completely possible that LaCroix diablerized someone in the past, but I don't really see any actual evidence for it in game.

    True, true. It's still risky business, though.

    I don't know what the maybe-Caine-maybe-not vampire was up to. His motives are never even hinted at. Maybe he set Jack on the entire scheme and maybe he was just there watching it all. The whole thing takes place close enough to the canon Ghenna that it really could have been Caine.

    Even his identity is up in the air. I think the official canon explanation is that it was a malkavian who thinks he's caine, but a good argument can be made that Troika intended him to actually be Caine.
     
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  9. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

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    I would expect that a diablerist would have something funky going on under auspex 4 or 5. Maybe i'm being paranoid but anyone thinks that the taxi driver vampire aura in auspex is larger than other vampires? I haven't played the game in like a year, but i remember paying close attention to that.
     
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  10. Echo Mirage Arcane

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    Do the black marks on the souls of diablarists appear even if they fail to capture/devour the soul of the intended victim ?
     
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  11. Aeschylus Prestigious Gentleman Swindler Patron

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    To answer all the questions about diablerie, from the oWoD VtM sourcebook:
     
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  12. Dreaad Arcane

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    Hmmm I always thought the sheriff followed LaCroix due to a blood bond or whatever it is called, probably with a combination of suggestive discipline powers. It would certainly be easier that way rather than relying on domination not being willpowered away at the wrong moment. Also does anyone know the supposed time frame of the events in bloodlines? Listening to the radio you would think it was 2 nights..... which is ridiculous.
     
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  13. Echo Mirage Arcane

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    Getting embraced and escaping the Sabbat raid to arriving in Santa Monica seems to be one night. While the Sabbat warehouse to being told to visit the Elizabeth Dane also seem to be one night. So all in all at least a week goes by in game I would say.
     
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  14. Excidium P. banal

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    It's a week at best and yes it's p. ridiculous considering the rate you develop your character.
     
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  15. CappenVarra phase-based phantasmist Patron

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    Stop making me want to replay Bloodlines. Or re-read grotsnik's lovely LP... :(
     
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  16. Excidium P. banal

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    :negative:
     
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  17. Echo Mirage Arcane

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    The theory for this discrepancy I once read on TV tropes is that Caine is altering your character sheet but lowering your generation from 13 down to 7 or so and making you level quicker.
     
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  18. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

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    bullshit - you can't really take the vampire metaplot or metaplot characters seriously or you'll go insane. But in this case, there is absolutely no reason for caine or a antediluvian or even a methuselah to be interested, except maybe if the player is a direct childe, which is of course, absurd... or is it. That's why i mentioned the True Black Hand, for the lulz, since they're a WoD white elephant on the shadowlands that just had had their city nuked just before the game, probably displacing some powerful vampires if they survived.

    Anyway, the world will end in about a week time, so everyone is fucked anyway. Grimdarkness of the eternal 90's. At least it's not so bad as WH40
     
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  19. Lemon Arcane

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    Doesn't Lacroix talk about this, how powerful you are? And how you shouldn't be?
     
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  20. Dreaad Arcane

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    ^ Same way that every villain acts surprised when you ruin his master plan. No point reading into that.
     
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  21. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

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    Andrei
     
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  22. set Cipher

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    Jack manipulates events in his favor and pulls the wool over your eyes the whole game. Would we have even known he planted the C4 if Troika didn't show him lounging at the end? Of course not. It's more than reasonable to conclude someone is influencing your growth and development somehow.

    If we remember this is a video game though... it's easy to just say: The developers didn't want to deal with the passage of time as a element of the game. Your character's growth can be better explained as something that happens over (at least) several years, the mundane passage of time is streamlined for you and presented as a one-cut experience.

    If the game had reduced our character's ability to do anything, to be a real neonate... well, for a single player game, I don't think that's wise. Perhaps it would have been better to have made our PC an existing character several decades old, but that carries with it its own problems.
     
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  23. Gord Arcane

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    I always assumed the player is simply of a relatively low gen (~8), which would explain his quick rise to physical/mental power.
    In my theory, the vampire executed in the intro might not actually be the real sire, but rather some pawn sacrifice - explaining LaCroix' confusion when he discovers that he can't dominate the pc.

    Since the events develop relatively fast and you are barely introduced to the whole vampire stuff, the pc is of course easily manipulated, most likely by Jack.
    However, the outro hints at Jack potentially being either manipulated himself, or at least influenced by another powerful vampire - probably the cabbie/Cain/whoever he is.

    Of course the whole backstory is deliberatly left ambiguous, so we will probably never know.
     
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  24. Excidium P. banal

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    Lacroix does dominate you multiple times throughout on the game.
     
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  25. Mastermind Arcane Patron Bethestard

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    He can dominate you earlier in the game if you try to refuse his tasks.
     
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