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War for the Netflix of gaming: featuring Google, Amazon, Microsoft, EA, Sony

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
While there's Epic Games making noise with a new download-based game store, you may also noticed giant tech companies are preparing for the next war of gaming platforms: streaming and/or subscription based game service, aka the Netflix of gaming.

Here's a recent report about Amazon: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...dly-developing-its-own-game-streaming-service

Amazon reportedly developing its own game streaming service
Company already in talks with publishers, but service wouldn't be ready until 2020 at the earliest

Amazon may have joined Google and Microsoft in development of a game streaming service that would purportedly allow users to ditch physical discs and downloads and simply play games by streaming them over the internet, according to a recent report.

Two people in the know spoke to The Information about Amazon's ambitions to begin its own service for streaming gameplay online, which reportedly wouldn't be available until 2020 at the earliest. However, Amazon is already apparently in talks with publishers about possible titles that would be distributed as a part of the service.

In March of last year, Amazon launched GameOn as a cloud-based tool to streamline the process of developers adding leaderboards, leagues, other competitions, and real-world prizes to their games.

Should such a service come to fruition, Amazon wouldn't be alone or necessarily at the forefront of such technology. Microsoft in particular has been the subject of such conversation throughout 2018, with reports of it developing a streaming-only console for debut in 2020 and the far more concrete announcement of its Project xCloud service dropping in October of last year.

Meanwhile, Google did a trial run of its still fairly quiet streaming service back in October with Assassin's Creed Odyssey in partnership with Ubisoft.

Conveniently 2020 is the year people expecting the next generation of consoles arrive. Microsoft is reportedly working on a streaming-only console (alongside a more traditional console) like the above report mentioned, and Sony probably is finding ways to make PSN/PS Now relevant in this war.

Also it would be not surprising if Valve also is preparing for streaming and/or subscription options for Steam.

(Oh about EA, they have dreams of becoming a platform holder with Origin and also preparing for a streaming service. Subscription service is already there.)

So what does this mean for us? Will this make more niche games viable? How niche it could be? Will this accelerate "popmolization" of mainstream games? (One thing is sure, since it will be so easy to pick up and try games, games will focus on making strong impression in the first hours even more than they do now.)

If this streaming thing fly, will premium, buy-to-"own" games be obsolete? I don't think so, at least not in the foreseeable future. I think games still have more benefits to own, and there are more people want and need to "own" games than music and video.

Personally I find streaming has a good potential to be a sampling stand, that you can try various games without downloading and installing gigabytes of data before you decide to buy them to own. I hope Steam or something provides an hour or something streaming demo for every games for free. But I doubt it.

(Makes me wonder if gaming version of illegal movie/TV show streaming sites will ever be viable. I guess hosted browser based emulators are closer to that, although they're not streaming in this sense.)
 

abija

Prophet
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
2,891
If devs get payed proportionally with how much people spend in their games, the amount of bullshit time wasting mechanics will sky rocket. So will the amount of gamasutra articles describing how said bullshit filler makes you enjoy "real content" even more.
 

Urthor

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
1,872
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire

Yeah sure, but that was then and this is now. At least the tech giants think now (or well, few years in the future) is the time, with faster network speed and more advanced and widespread cloud tech (which is one of the main revenue generators for those giants).

Someone tell me again how the Tech Giants have solved the issue of speeding up the speed of light down fibre optic cables to remove the single biggest issue here, which is ping?
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Someone tell me again how the Tech Giants have solved the issue of speeding up the speed of light down fibre optic cables to remove the single biggest issue here, which is ping?

It is a mystery to me too
mystery.png
but reports on Google's test with Assassin's Creed was positive (or not negative) on that front, saying it's closer to input delay on console (and of course worse than PC native).

Also there was a report how MS is trying to "minimize" lag: https://www.thurrott.com/xbox/163896/details-microsofts-xbox-scarlett-game-streaming-service

The cloud console will have a limited amount of compute locally for specific tasks like controller input, image processing, and importantly, collision detection. The downside of this is that it since more hardware is needed locally, it will raise the price of the streaming box but it will still cost significantly less than what we are accustomed to paying for a new-generation console which should help expand the platform’s reach.

[...]

The portion of the game that runs locally, some have referred to it as a slice or splice, means that the game is ‘running’ in two locations at the same time and utilizes Microsoft’s cloud to stitch it all together.

So they're trying to solve the problem I guess.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124

Yeah sure, but that was then and this is now. At least the tech giants think now (or well, few years in the future) is the time, with faster network speed and more advanced and widespread cloud tech (which is one of the main revenue generators for those giants).

Someone tell me again how the Tech Giants have solved the issue of speeding up the speed of light down fibre optic cables to remove the single biggest issue here, which is ping?

They will solve it thanks to revolutionary futuristic technology called "download to hard drive".
 

Urthor

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
1,872
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Keep in mind that they tested that on a OLED TV with 22ms of input lag, a low input lag monitor these days has 1ms, and most IPS monitors have about 10ish. And they only tested it vs 60FPS, not 144hz

It's fair to say that it's probably an improvement over a true potato of a PC for the highest end games, ie if you have a potato of a PC and you want to play the highest end game around it's worth streaming it because otherwise you can't. But the question is how many of those people *want* to play it.
 

Siveon

Bot
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
4,509
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Well PSNOW already and still exists. (And has become pretty good value over the last two years)
Isn't it still a streaming service? If it was downloadables I'd be inclined to agree but streaming is basically worthless.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
Well PSNOW already and still exists. (And has become pretty good value over the last two years)
Isn't it still a streaming service? If it was downloadables I'd be inclined to agree but streaming is basically worthless.
Most PS4 games are downloadable (On PS4)
Currently playing PREY and Tokyo Xanadu on it.
Also streaming is ok (At least for me).
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
Downloadable Games on PSNOW
PS4 Carmageddon: Max Damage Stainless Games Vehicular Combat
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PS4 Hardware: Rivals Connected Content Group Vehicular combat
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PS4 Soma Frictional Games Survival horror
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PS4 Kingdom: New Lands Noio Licorice Strategy, adventure
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PS4 Warhammer 40K: Deathwatch Rodeo Games Strategy, Action
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PS4 Alchemic Jousts Lunatic Pixels Strategy
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PS4 NBA 2K16 Visual Concepts Sports
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PS4 OlliOlli2: Welcome to Olliwood Roll7 Sports
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PS4 Bridge Constructor ClockStone Simulation
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PS4 Farming Simulator 17 Giants Software Simulation
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PS4 Firefighters: The Simulation Visual Imagination Software Simulation
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PS4 Forestry 2017: The Simulation Joindots Simulation
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PS4 Professional Farmer 2017 Visual Imagination Software Simulation
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PS4 Deadlight: Director's Cut Tequila Works Side-scroller, Platformer, Survival horror
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PS4 Resogun Housemarque Side scrolling shoot-em-up
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PS4 Alienation Housemarque Shooter, Role-playing
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PS4 Dead Nation Apocalypse Housemarque, Climax Studios Shoot 'em up
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PS4 Helldivers Arrowhead Game Studios Shoot 'em up
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PS4 Raiden V: Director's Cut MOSS Shoot 'em up
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PS4 Super Stardust Ultra Housemarque Shoot 'em up
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PS4 Touhou Genso Rondo: Bullet Ballet NIS America Shoot 'em up
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PS4 Asdivine Hearts Kemco RPG
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PS4 Divinity: Original Sin Larian Studios RPG
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PS4 Megadimension Neptunia VII Idea Factory, Compile Heart RPG
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PS4 Mystery Chronicle: One Way Heroics Spike Chunsoft RPG
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PS4 Omega Quintet Galapagos RPG RPG
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PS4 Torment: Tides of Numenera InXile Entertainment RPG
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PS4 Joe Dever's Lone Wolf Forge Reply, Atlantyca Lab Role-playing game
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PS4 Dark Rose Valkyrie Compile Heart Role-Playing
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PS4 Exist Archive: The Other Side of the Sky Spike Chunsoft, tri-Ace Role-playing
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PS4 Ironcast Dreadbit Roguelike, Turn-based strategy
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PS4 Entwined Sony Computer Entertainment Rhythm
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PS4 Anomaly 2 11 bit studios Real-time strategy, tower defense
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PS4 Blue Estate HeSaw Rail Shooter
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PS4 Gal*Gun: Double Peace Inti Creates Rail Shooter
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PS4 Blazerush Targem Games Racing, Vehicular combat
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PS4 Driveclub Realmforge Studios Racing videogame
PS4 Assetto Corsa Kunos Simulazioni Racing Simulation
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PS4 Project Cars Slightly Mad Studios Racing simulation
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PS4 Project Cars 2 Slightly Mad Studios Racing simulation
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PS4 Dirt Rally Codemasters Racing
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PS4 Ducati: 90th Anniversary Milestone Racing
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PS4 F1 2015 Codemasters Birmingham Racing
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PS4 F1 2016 Codemasters Birmingham Racing
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PS4 Mantis Burn Racing VooFoo Studios Racing
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PS4 Moto Racer 4 Anuman Racing
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PS4 Motorcycle Club Bigben Interactive Racing
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PS4 MXGP 2 - The Official Motocross Videogame Milestone Racing
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PS4 MX vs. ATV Supercross Encore Rainbow Studios Racing
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PS4 Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo Milestone S.r.l. Racing
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PS4 Table Top Racing Playrise Digital Racing
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PS4 WRC 5 Kylotonn Games Racing
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PS4 Seasons After Fall Swing Swing Submarine Puzzle, Platformer
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PS4 Baseball Riot 10tons LTD Puzzle, Action
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PS4 One Upon Light Singapore University of Technology and Design Puzzle, Action
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PS4 Q*bert: Rebooted Gonzo Games, Sideline amusement Puzzle, Action
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PS4 ACT IT OUT! A Game of Charades Snap Finger Click Puzzle
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PS4 Back to Bed Bedtime Digital Games Puzzle
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PS4 Bombing Busters Sanuk Games Puzzle
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PS4 Brick Breaker Sanuk Games Puzzle
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PS4 Enigmatis: The Ghosts of Maple Creek Artifex Mundi Puzzle
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PS4 Escape Plan Fun Bits Interactive, Wholesale Algorithms Puzzle
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PS4 Gem Smashers Frame Studios Puzzle
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PS4 Leo's Fortune 1337 & Senri Puzzle
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PS4 Sparkle Unleashed 10tons Entertainment Puzzle
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PS4 Tetraminos Bigben Interactive Puzzle
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PS4 Broken Age Double Fine Productions Point-and-click adventure
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PS4 Day of the Tentacle Remastered LucasArts, Double Fine Productions Point-and-click adventure
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PS4 A Boy and His Blob WayForward Technologies Platformer, Puzzle
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PS4 Chronicles of Teddy: Harmony of Exidus LookAtMyGame Platformer, Metroidvania
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PS4 Knack SIE Japan Studio Platformer, beat 'em up
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PS4 Bound Plastic Studios Platformer, Art
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PS4 Tearaway Unfolded Media Molecule, Tarsier Studios Platformer, adventure
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PS4 Shadow of the Beast Sony Interactive Entertainment Platformer, Action-Adventure
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PS4 Bard's Gold Erdem Sen Platformer
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PS4 Electronic Super Joy Michael Todd Games Platformer
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PS4 Exile's End MagneticRealms Platformer
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PS4 JumpJet Rex TreeFortress Games Platformer
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PS4 Mighty No. 9 Comcept, Inti Creates Platformer
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PS4 Amazing Discoveries In Outer Space Cosmic Picnic Platform
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PS4 Ape Escape 2 SIE Japan Studio Platform
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PS4 Limbo Playdead Platform
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PS4 Slime-san: Superslime Edition Fabraz Platform
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PS4 KickBeat: Special Edition Zen Studios Music, Rhythm
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PS4 Sound Shapes Queasy Games, SCE Santa Monica Studio Music, Platformer
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PS4 PixelJunk Shooter Ultimate Q-Games, Double Eleven Multidirectional shooter
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PS4 The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited ZeniMax Online Studios MMORPG
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PS4 Atari Flashback Classics: Volume 1 Atari Miscellaneous, Compilation
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PS4 Atari Flashback Classics: Volume 2 Atari Miscellaneous, Compilation
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PS4 Azkend 2 10tons LTD Match-3
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PS4 Beyond: Two Souls[4] Quantic Dream Interactive drama, action-adventure
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PS4 Heavy Rain Quantic Dream Interactive drama, action-adventure
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PS4 God of War III: Remastered SCE Santa Monica Studio Hack and slash, action-adventure
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PS4 Grim Fandango Remastered LucasArts, Double Fine Productions Graphic adventure
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PS4 Machinarium Amanita Design Graphic Adventure
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PS4 Air Conflicts: Pacific Carriers Playstation 4 Edition Games Farm Flight simulation
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PS4 Air Conflicts: Vietnam Ultimate Edition Games Farm Flight simulation
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PS4 Titan Attacks! Puppy Games Fixed shooter
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PS4 Lovely Planet Quicktequila First-person shooter, Platformer
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PS4 Battleborn Gearbox Software First-person shooter
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PS4 Evolve Turtle Rock Studios First-person shooter
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PS4 Homefront: The Revolution Dambuster Studios First-person shooter
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PS4 Killzone Shadow Fall Guerrilla Games First-person shooter
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PS4 Metro 2033 Redux 4A Games First-person shooter
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PS4 Payday 2: Crimewave Edition Overkill Software First-person Shooter
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PS4 Prey Arkane Studios First-person shooter
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PS4 Garou: Mark of the Wolves SNK Fighting game
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PS4 The Last Blade 2 SNK Fighting game
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PS4 BlazBlue: Central Fiction Arc System Works Fighting
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PS4 BlazBlue: Chrono Phantasma Arc System Works Fighting
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PS4 Guilty Gear Xrd Sign Arc System Works Fighting
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PS4 Nidhogg Messhof Fighting
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PS4 Ultra Street Fighter 4 Dimps, Capcom Fighting
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PS4 Tropico 5 Haemimont Games Construction and management simulation, government simulation
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PS4 Grand Ages: Medieval Kalypso Media City-building, real-time strategy
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PS4 Another World 20th Anniversary Edition Delphine Software International Cinematic Platformer
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PS4 Industry Giant II JoWooD Productions Business Simulation
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PS4 Backgammon Blitz VooFoo Studios Board
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PS4 Pure Hold'em World Poker Championship VooFoo Studios Board
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PS4 Pure Pool VooFoo Studios Board
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PS4 Cartoon Network: Battle Crashers Magic Pockets Beat 'em up
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PS4 Hohokum Honeyslug, SCE Santa Monica Studio Art
PS4 Fluster Cluck Loot Interactive arcade, Party
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PS4 Goosebumps: The Game WayForward Adventure, Visual novel
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PS4 This Is the Police Weappy Studio Adventure, Strategy
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PS4 ADR1FT Three One Zero Adventure, Puzzle
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PS4 The Book of Unwritten Tales 2 King Art Games Adventure, Comedy
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PS4 Akiba's Trip: Undead & Undressed Acquire Adventure, Beat 'em up, Action role-playing
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PS4 Abzû Giant Squid Studios Adventure, Art, Simulation
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PS4 Everybody's Gone to the Rapture The Chinese Room, SCE Santa Monica Studio Adventure, Adventure
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PS4 Tokyo Twilight Ghost Hunters Toybox Inc. Adventure game
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PS4 Adam's Venture: Origins Vertigo Digital Entertainment Adventure
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PS4 Adventure Time: Pirates of the Enchiridion Climax Studios Adventure
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PS4 Agatha Christie: The ABC Murders Artefacts Studio Adventure
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PS4 Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons Starbreeze Studios Adventure
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PS4 Doki-Doki Universe HumaNature Studios Adventure
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PS4 Nova-111 Funktronic Labs Adventure
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PS4 Sherlock Holmes: The Devil's Daughter Frogwares Adventure
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PS4 The Unfinished Swan Giant Sparrow, SIE Santa Monica Studio Adventure
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PS4 Until Dawn Supermassive Games Adventure
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PS4 The Vanishing of Ethan Carter The Astronauts Adventure
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PS4 Whispering Willows Night Light Interactive Adventure
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PS4 APB Reloaded Realtime Worlds, Reloaded Productions Action-Adventure, Third-person shooter
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PS4 The Last Tinker: City of Colors Mimimi Productions, Loot Interactive Action-adventure, survival horror
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PS4 Terraria Re-Logic Action-adventure, Survival
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PS4 Aragami Lince Works Action-Adventure, Stealth
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PS4 Legend of Kay Anniversary Kaiko, Neon Studios Action-adventure, Platformer
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PS4 Saints Row IV Re-Elected Volition Action-adventure, open world
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PS4 Brutal Stormcloud Games Action-Adventure
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PS4 Gravity Rush Remastered Project Siren Action-Adventure
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PS4 Lego Batman 3: Beyond Gotham Traveller's Tales Action-adventure
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PS4 Pixel Piracy Quadro Delta Action-Adventure
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PS4 Saints Row: Gat out of Hell Volition, High Voltage Software Action-adventure
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PS4 Touhou: Scarlet Curiosity Mediascape Action-Adventure
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PS4 The Swindle Size Five Games Action, Stealth
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PS4 Zotrix ZeroBit Games Action, Shoot 'em up
PS4 Tiny Brains Spearhead Games Action, Puzzle
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PS4 The Bug Butcher Triangle Studios Action, Platformer
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PS4 The Deer God Cinopt Studios Action, Platformer
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PS4 Extreme Exorcism Golden Ruby Games Action, Platformer
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PS4 For Honor Ubisoft Montreal Action, fighting
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PS4 Dead Island: Retro Revenge Techland Action, Beat 'em up
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PS4 Zombie Vikings Zoink! Action, Beat 'em up
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PS4 Stikbold! A Dodgeball Adventure Reign Bros Action, Arcade
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PS4 Super Dungeon Bros React Games Action RPG, Hack and slash
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PS4 Bound by Flame Spiders Action RPG
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PS4 Costume Quest 2 Double Fine Productions Action RPG
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PS4 God Eater: Resurrection Shift Action RPG
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PS4 Risen 3 Enhanced Edition Piranha Bytes Action RPG
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PS4 Shiness: The Lightning Kingdom Enigami Action RPG
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PS4 Dead Island: Definitive Edition Techland Action role-playing, survival horror
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PS4 How to Survive: Storm Waning Edition EKO Software Action Role-Playing, Survival horror
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PS4 Mount & Blade: Warband TaleWorlds Entertainment Action role-playing, strategy
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PS4 Darksiders: Warmastered Edition Vigil Games Action role-playing, hack and slash
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PS4 Darksiders II Deathinitive Edition Vigil Games Action role-playing, hack and slash
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PS4 Akiba's Beat Acquire Action role-playing
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PS4 Arcania: The Complete Tale Spellbound Entertainment, Black Forest Games Action role-playing
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PS4 Bloodborne FromSoftware Action role-playing
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PS4 Fat Princess Adventures Fun Bits Interactive Action Role-Playing
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PS4 Lords of the Fallen Deck13 Interactive, CI Games Action Role-playing
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PS4 Overlord: Fellowship of Evil Codemasters Action Role-Playing
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PS4 The Technomancer Spiders Action Role-Playing
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PS4 Toukiden Kiwami Omega Force Action Role-Playing
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PS4 The Witch and the Hundred Knight: Revival Edition Nippon Ichi Software Action Role-Playing
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PS4 Strider Double Helix Games Action adventure, platformer
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PS4 Dynamite Fishing - World Games HandyGames Action
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PS4 Nom Nom Galaxy Q-Games Action
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PS4 Poncho Delve Interactive Action
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PS4 Rogue Stormers Black Forest Games Action
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PS4 Velocibox Shawn Beck Games Action
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Siveon

Bot
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
4,509
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Currently playing PREY and Tokyo Xanadu on it.
Gross, FPS on console.

Although seriously the way I see it that's a mountain of garbage (with granted a handful of good games) for $20 a month - a $20 I could spend on just getting the games themselves permanently.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
Although seriously the way I see it that's a mountain of garbage (with granted a handful of good games) for $20 a month - a $20 I could spend on just getting the games themselves permanently.

Yeah, but that would apply to any potential netflix like gaming service (Hell that is what Netflix itself is). C'est la vie.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,020
But the question is how many of those people *want* to play it.
They exist, one of my buddies I met at trade school was one of them. And that guy didn't have a potato pc, quite the opposite, he had it setup do VR shit. I didn't press him on it but my assumption is that a super computer streamed can do a lot more shit than anything you can do at the consumer level.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Well PSNOW already and still exists. (And has become pretty good value over the last two years)
Isn't it still a streaming service? If it was downloadables I'd be inclined to agree but streaming is basically worthless.
Most PS4 games are downloadable (On PS4)
Currently playing PREY and Tokyo Xanadu on it.
Also streaming is ok (At least for me).
that's not what the thread is about, dip
that's equivalent to things like EA's origin subscription
 

Zenith

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
296
Someone tell me again how the Tech Giants have solved the issue of speeding up the speed of light down fibre optic cables to remove the single biggest issue here, which is ping?
Generally, people eat shit up. Search "Witcher 2 input lag" and observe pages upon pages of people saying that the OP should just upgrade PC / git gud, and even that the lag is totally normal and intended by the devs. I've skimmed the first page of google results just now and I don't think the solution (which is to limit the number of render-ahead frames to something reasonable) is mentioned even once.
Condition the players to expect fucked up controls (input lag, mouse acceleration etc) and consider them normal, stuff games full of nano-interactive garbage like QTEs and Telltale-style "decisions", add auto-aim, auto-lock-on and auto-jump-to-enemy... Really, they wouldn't have to do anything they don't already do. I bet if this lifts off financially, in a year or two we'll see a full-on auto-pilot that "predicts" what inputs the user would have made. Just press a button every other second and the game will play itself.
 

Young_Hollow

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
1,104
Even if a good streaming service is developed, whichever company owns it would have to wait for the world to catch up in internet speed. IIRC Gabe once said that the problem with this kind of streaming is that once everyone starts using it, the bandwidth will be reduced so much that no one can use it. Even if it works, I don't think I'll ever be using it. DRM is bad enough but paying for the privilege "streaming" a game I should have on my PC is bullshit.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,020
I think one way to mitigate the lag is to do something like the run-ahead feature in retroarch. Which save/load states out of the ass each time when you make a input.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
that's not what the thread is about, dip
that's equivalent to things like EA's origin subscription

Not... exactly?

The OP uses Netflix (which was a non-streaming subscription based service before streaming) as an example and then talks about Streaming and subscription based services (Even mentions EA's origin subscription btw).

Ofc you mean talking about streaming technology in general but even then PSNow is the only big current example.
 

abija

Prophet
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
2,891
Someone tell me again how the Tech Giants have solved the issue of speeding up the speed of light down fibre optic cables to remove the single biggest issue here, which is ping?
It is a mystery to me too
mystery.png
but reports on Google's test with Assassin's Creed was positive (or not negative) on that front, saying it's closer to input delay on console (and of course worse than PC native).

There is a huge difference between actions though, your character reacting at 150ms in a slow paced game is tolerable, the camera turning with 150ms delay in a game where you constantly need to move it will drive you mad. Or imagine playing something like starcraft with 150ms between your action and screen updating...

This is not the same lag as you get in MP where the clients try to react instantly at most of your input.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
online games are also designed to counteract lag using client-side prediction and various algorithms for latency hiding
 

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