Warcraft III: Reforged - now with lowest user metacritic score of all time

[Lacrymas]

Yes, he did care, but not about the people around him, he cared about abstract concepts at first, then about trying to defeat the undead/Mal'Ganis and then about a singular fixation that was more about himself than anything else. He was extremely motivated, just not in this altruistic sense Christie is saying.

 

[Delterius]

Ya know. The one thing I would like to see is some of the environment art from WoW. Killing the elves as Arthas, turning Eversong Woods into the dead scar would be swell. Such assets could only be good for a potential modding community.

Too bad this seems to be developed by Tencent on the side.

 

[ortucis]

He was a xenophobic dick because he, after all, prince of a society that spent decades being invaded by big green monsters from another planet.

That's why Blizzard handed over the development to Chinese.

 

[Grimlorn]

Like an exceptionally bad pick for Paladin, I remember thinking that back when it first came back. "You are past redemption!" Is the least Paladin thing you could say.

Exactly. He was extremely prejudiced from the moment he was introduced and he kept getting worse. The desire to protect his people was a front for his anger and his being absolutely sure he was always right. He did the things he did because he wanted to. This was exacerbated by actually being a powerful paladin and a good tactician, his victories gave him the certainty in himself. It was shocking how his character didn't change much when he turned into a death knight, he now had an excuse to not care at all anymore about his past life. He says he feels no pity or remorse for damning everyone he has ever cared for, but that was true before this, he just didn't admit it to himself.

I thought his lack of empathy was because Frostmourne ate his soul.

Like I got that he actually did care, but it was more "Mal'Ganis is fucking with me, and that makes me angry." and less "No, my people!"

I thought Ner'zhul/Lich King was already affecting him before he even gained Frostmourne, but the story isn't as fresh in my mind and not sure when it began. You only gain Frostmourne in the last Human mission as well, so his lack of empathy had to have come before that, like in that mission where he purges the town. Maybe Ner'zhul was already affecting him in the first missions when the undead show up. We don't know unless it's been stated. I never got the Arthas fandom. I always thought at the end of the expansion that the Lich King took over his body and he was no longer Arthas, but I guess this was changed in WoW.

 

[Olinser]

Like an exceptionally bad pick for Paladin, I remember thinking that back when it first came back. "You are past redemption!" Is the least Paladin thing you could say.

Exactly. He was extremely prejudiced from the moment he was introduced and he kept getting worse. The desire to protect his people was a front for his anger and his being absolutely sure he was always right. He did the things he did because he wanted to. This was exacerbated by actually being a powerful paladin and a good tactician, his victories gave him the certainty in himself. It was shocking how his character didn't change much when he turned into a death knight, he now had an excuse to not care at all anymore about his past life. He says he feels no pity or remorse for damning everyone he has ever cared for, but that was true before this, he just didn't admit it to himself.

I thought his lack of empathy was because Frostmourne ate his soul.

Like I got that he actually did care, but it was more "Mal'Ganis is fucking with me, and that makes me angry." and less "No, my people!"

I thought Ner'zhul/Lich King was already affecting him before he even gained Frostmourne, but the story isn't as fresh in my mind and not sure when it began. You only gain Frostmourne in the last Human mission as well, so his lack of empathy had to have come before that, like in that mission where he purges the town. Maybe Ner'zhul was already affecting him in the first missions when the undead show up. We don't know unless it's been stated. I never got the Arthas fandom. I always thought at the end of the expansion that the Lich King took over his body and he was no longer Arthas, but I guess this was changed in WoW.

Arthas ordered Orcs killed down to the last one, ordered an entire city burned to the ground, burned his men's ships so they couldn't leave Northrend, murdered mercenaries that had fought loyally for him so he could pin the shipburning on them, and finally picked up Frostmourne KNOWING it was cursed and didn't even pause when picking it up killed Muradin.

Arthas was way off the deep end long before he picked up the sword.

I don't think Ner'zhul was affecting him directly as in altering his mind or personality or communicating directly with him, but he was definitely using the plague and Kel'Thuzad to manipulate him to where he wanted him to be.

 

[Lacrymas]

Ner'zhul used him because he knew Arthas will freely choose to become a death knight, Ner'zhul just pushed the right buttons. Arthas absolutely freely chose to do everything he did when he was a death knight as well, no mind control was involved. That's why he was the Lich King's champion after all. Arthas is at once more and less complex than Christie understands.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Arthas was absolutely right, it was too late to do anything. If

He may have been, but it makes for a shitty paladin what does not even consider other options.

 

[Nathir]

I can already tell they are changing the story into Arthas being a guy who dindu nothing wrong, but got corrupted by the big bad Lich King/Frostmourne.

 

[Malamert]

At this rate we'll end up having custom campaigns focused on restoring the original story.

 

[Average Manatee]

It's actually trivially easy to extract the campaigns and use them as a custom one. I did it when I was young and made a proto-NG+ mode for the campaign that let you carry your heroes back to map 1. So that definitely won't be a problem.

 

[MilesBeyond]

There's been some new comments on the plot revamps by the dev team:

We want to create a smooth transition between adventures. The Warcraft 3 saga ends with the climactic battle atop Icecrown between Arthas and Illidan - but what happens next? What leads up to the events of WoW? That's a story we've hinted at, but we've never been able to properly tell, and we're excited that we now get the chance to, so we're expanding the ending a bit. Arthas ascends to become the Lich King, but what happens to Illidan? Well, now you get to find out. I don't want to spoil too much, but it's pretty exciting. His battle with Arthas left him deeply weakened, so he tries to flee Northrend. He almost gets to the coast, but with his senses and skills both taxed by his wounds, he's easy prey for a Scourge ambush, which knocks him out and takes him prisoner. They use a carriage to send him across the frozen wastelands of Northrend back to Icecrown, where he is to be executed by the King. Along the way, he slowly starts to regain consciousness, and one of his fellow prisoners says to him "Hey, you. You're finally awake. You were trying to flee the continent, right? Walked right into that Undead ambush same as us, and that troll over there."

 

[Average Manatee]

This is a Skyrim reference, right?

Good to understand their priorities. I hope they can sneak in some Rick and Morty memes. I love Reddit!

 

[MilesBeyond]

This is a Skyrim reference, right?

Good to understand their priorities. I hope they can sneak in some Rick and Morty memes. I love Reddit!

It's a fake quote. I'm just shitposting.

 

[Average Manatee]

Disappointing

 

[Maculo]

I went back and defeated the final UD mission of TFT on Hard. There is an incredibly cheesy strategy, even easier than what Average Manatee showed us. It goes as follows:

1. Make Shades.
2. Use Shades to encircle Illidan and ensure that he is blocked in. Put those Shades on hold.
3. Put Arthas, Anubarak, 5 Frost Wyrms, and 5 Destroyers in 1 control group (spam destroy magic and deathcoil on Frost Wyrms).
4. Win.

I may just go back and try to do it without the Shades, because that trivialized the entire mission. Still have to do mission 1 on Hard though.


Edit: Went back and finished TFT UD1 on Hard. I can now strike those missions off my gaming bucket list. Sylvannas' side of the map was surprisingly easy. Capped supply on banshees and then possessed the ranged elite bandit unit until I had no more banshees. Those things shred through enemies. Kel'thuzad was the hardest part, because I kept getting pinned between 2-3 groups. It was a slow attrition battle and I definitely had to retreat several times. Arthas is easy if you just wait to abuse Raise Dead (use them to run into the base and snipe the farms).

Now I am ready for Reforge to add extra challenges or shake things up.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I can already tell they are changing the story into Arthas being a guy who dindu nothing wrong, but got corrupted by the big bad Lich King/Frostmourne.

I can verify that that is basically exactly what happened over the last decade in WoW.

Wrong. There is actually a Northrend quest in Wrath of the Lich King which has Arthas consume the soul of Ner’zhul to be the sole personality of the Lich King. You would know this if you had played it.

 

[luj1]

I still have friends who think Arthas falling is some kind of tragic slow decline when he literally goes "FUCK TAKING PRISONERS KILL THEM ALL AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" in the very first mission.

There was a rotten seed in him from the beginning IMO

 

[luj1]

Why people say Arthas was wrong in purging the city? Arthas was absolutely right, it was too late to do anything.

He was right but that was suspicious because that's not how a Paladin thinks

 

[luj1]

I think he had something questionable in him from the beginning.. something impure or w/e you want to call it and that's why the Lich King chose him

 

[Delterius]

Why people say Arthas was wrong in purging the city? Arthas was absolutely right, it was too late to do anything.

He was right but that was suspicious because that's not how a Paladin thinks

Yeah but that's how a prince/king thinks

his dad is the one who kept orcs alive tho

 

[J1M]

Why people say Arthas was wrong in purging the city? Arthas was absolutely right, it was too late to do anything.

He was right but that was suspicious because that's not how a Paladin thinks

Yeah but that's how a prince/king thinks

his dad is the one who kept orcs alive tho

No king rules forever my son.

 

[vota DC]

There's been some new comments on the plot revamps by the dev team:

We want to create a smooth transition between adventures. The Warcraft 3 saga ends with the climactic battle atop Icecrown between Arthas and Illidan - but what happens next? What leads up to the events of WoW? That's a story we've hinted at, but we've never been able to properly tell, and we're excited that we now get the chance to, so we're expanding the ending a bit. Arthas ascends to become the Lich King, but what happens to Illidan? Well, now you get to find out. I don't want to spoil too much, but it's pretty exciting. His battle with Arthas left him deeply weakened, so he tries to flee Northrend. He almost gets to the coast, but with his senses and skills both taxed by his wounds, he's easy prey for a Scourge ambush, which knocks him out and takes him prisoner. They use a carriage to send him across the frozen wastelands of Northrend back to Icecrown, where he is to be executed by the King. Along the way, he slowly starts to regain consciousness, and one of his fellow prisoners says to him "Hey, you. You're finally awake. You were trying to flee the continent, right? Walked right into that Undead ambush same as us, and that troll over there."

Never played Warcraft III expansion, but in vanilla game they fight and interrupt the fight because their force are equal.
Then Illidan become a demon and he is exiled by night elves. The logic conclusion would be that with all old demons destroyed the new demon boss is Illidan and he is allied with arthas and undead rather than their master like Archimonde.

 

[Farewell into the night]

Never played Warcraft III expansion, but in vanilla game they fight and interrupt the fight because their force are equal.
Then Illidan become a demon and he is exiled by night elves. The logic conclusion would be that with all old demons destroyed the new demon boss is Illidan and he is allied with arthas and undead rather than their master like Archimonde.

I don't want to spoil things but the final fight didn't ended like this.

 

[Red Rogue]

Never played any proper Warcraft game but I dabbled in the MMO recently. The story and world is pretty interesting in my opinion so I think I'll definitely be hopping on this game.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Oh no it still has the same stiff animations from the original.

They said they won't change the animations because that would alter the gameplay. So it's gonna remain at 20 FPS like the original.