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Warcraft 3: Reforged

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Dawkinsfan69, Nov 2, 2018.

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  1. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Classic case of not understanding anything about a character or why they do whatever it is they do.
     
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  2. TheDiceMustRoll Educated

    TheDiceMustRoll
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    I always assumed it was because he was an angry, irrational retard with no patience. Like an exceptionally bad pick for Paladin, I remember thinking that back when it first came back. "You are past redemption!" Is the least Paladin thing you could say.
     
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  3. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Exactly. He was extremely prejudiced from the moment he was introduced and he kept getting worse. The desire to protect his people was a front for his anger and his being absolutely sure he was always right. He did the things he did because he wanted to. This was exacerbated by actually being a powerful paladin and a good tactician, his victories gave him the certainty in himself. It was shocking how his character didn't change much when he turned into a death knight, he now had an excuse to not care at all anymore about his past life. He says he feels no pity or remorse for damning everyone he has ever cared for, but that was true before this, he just didn't admit it to himself.
     
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  4. TheDiceMustRoll Educated

    TheDiceMustRoll
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    I thought his lack of empathy was because Frostmourne ate his soul.

    Like I got that he actually did care, but it was more "Mal'Ganis is fucking with me, and that makes me angry." and less "No, my people!"
     
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  5. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Yes, he did care, but not about the people around him, he cared about abstract concepts at first, then about trying to defeat the undead/Mal'Ganis and then about a singular fixation that was more about himself than anything else. He was extremely motivated, just not in this altruistic sense Christie is saying.
     
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  6. TheDiceMustRoll Educated

    TheDiceMustRoll
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    I still have friends who think Arthas falling is some kind of tragic slow decline when he literally goes "FUCK TAKING PRISONERS KILL THEM ALL AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" in the very first mission. Those same people are like "Uther and Arthas are like Anakin and Obi-Wan." And again, it's really obvious that Uther was just sort of saddled with "take care of annoying prince" duty.
     
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  7. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    Ya know. The one thing I would like to see is some of the environment art from WoW. Killing the elves as Arthas, turning Eversong Woods into the dead scar would be swell. Such assets could only be good for a potential modding community.

    Too bad this seems to be developed by Tencent on the side.
     
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  8. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    I think people give it a pass because Arthas is pretty new and young in the first missions.
    He was a xenophobic dick because he, after all, prince of a society that spent decades being invaded by big green monsters from another planet.
     
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  9. ortucis Prophet

    ortucis
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    That's why Blizzard handed over the development to Chinese.
     
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  10. Grimlorn Arcane

    Grimlorn
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    I thought Ner'zhul/Lich King was already affecting him before he even gained Frostmourne, but the story isn't as fresh in my mind and not sure when it began. You only gain Frostmourne in the last Human mission as well, so his lack of empathy had to have come before that, like in that mission where he purges the town. Maybe Ner'zhul was already affecting him in the first missions when the undead show up. We don't know unless it's been stated. I never got the Arthas fandom. I always thought at the end of the expansion that the Lich King took over his body and he was no longer Arthas, but I guess this was changed in WoW.
     
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  11. Olinser Literate

    Olinser
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    Arthas ordered Orcs killed down to the last one, ordered an entire city burned to the ground, burned his men's ships so they couldn't leave Northrend, murdered mercenaries that had fought loyally for him so he could pin the shipburning on them, and finally picked up Frostmourne KNOWING it was cursed and didn't even pause when picking it up killed Muradin.

    Arthas was way off the deep end long before he picked up the sword.

    I don't think Ner'zhul was affecting him directly as in altering his mind or personality or communicating directly with him, but he was definitely using the plague and Kel'Thuzad to manipulate him to where he wanted him to be.
     
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  12. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Ner'zhul used him because he knew Arthas will freely choose to become a death knight, Ner'zhul just pushed the right buttons. Arthas absolutely freely chose to do everything he did when he was a death knight as well, no mind control was involved. That's why he was the Lich King's champion after all. Arthas is at once more and less complex than Christie understands.
     
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  13. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Why people say Arthas was wrong in purging the city? Arthas was absolutely right, it was too late to do anything. If anything, Uther and Jaina leaving only screwed him out of having tactical options that could have allowed him to be less radical in his purge. Without both of them to act as his conscience, Arthas only went further and further, not to mention, fell into Mal'Ganis trap.
     
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  14. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    He may have been, but it makes for a shitty paladin what does not even consider other options.
     
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  15. Nathir Learned

    Nathir
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    I can already tell they are changing the story into Arthas being a guy who dindu nothing wrong, but got corrupted by the big bad Lich King/Frostmourne.
     
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  16. TheDiceMustRoll Educated

    TheDiceMustRoll
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    I can verify that that is basically exactly what happened over the last decade in WoW.
     
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  17. Malamert Literate

    Malamert
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    At this rate we'll end up having custom campaigns focused on restoring the original story.
     
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  18. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    It's actually trivially easy to extract the campaigns and use them as a custom one. I did it when I was young and made a proto-NG+ mode for the campaign that let you carry your heroes back to map 1. So that definitely won't be a problem.
     
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  19. MilesBeyond Savant

    MilesBeyond
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    There's been some new comments on the plot revamps by the dev team:

     
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  20. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    This is a Skyrim reference, right?

    Good to understand their priorities. I hope they can sneak in some Rick and Morty memes. I love Reddit!
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
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  21. MilesBeyond Savant

    MilesBeyond
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    It's a fake quote. I'm just shitposting.
     
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  22. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    Disappointing
     
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  23. Maculo Prophet

    Maculo
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    I went back and defeated the final UD mission of TFT on Hard. There is an incredibly cheesy strategy, even easier than what Average Manatee showed us. It goes as follows:

    1. Make Shades.
    2. Use Shades to encircle Illidan and ensure that he is blocked in. Put those Shades on hold.
    3. Put Arthas, Anubarak, 5 Frost Wyrms, and 5 Destroyers in 1 control group (spam destroy magic and deathcoil on Frost Wyrms).
    4. Win.

    I may just go back and try to do it without the Shades, because that trivialized the entire mission. Still have to do mission 1 on Hard though.


    Edit: Went back and finished TFT UD1 on Hard. I can now strike those missions off my gaming bucket list. Sylvannas' side of the map was surprisingly easy. Capped supply on banshees and then possessed the ranged elite bandit unit until I had no more banshees. Those things shred through enemies. Kel'thuzad was the hardest part, because I kept getting pinned between 2-3 groups. It was a slow attrition battle and I definitely had to retreat several times. Arthas is easy if you just wait to abuse Raise Dead (use them to run into the base and snipe the farms).

    Now I am ready for Reforge to add extra challenges or shake things up.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018 at 3:57 PM
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