Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Mechanicus - now with Heretek expansion

[Spark Mandriller]

plox how many variants of the skitarii are in game?

Four types. Ranger uses galvanic rifle, ranger alpha uses power sword, vanguard uses radium carbine, vanguard alpha uses taser goad. I find vanguard and ranger alpha to be the best, but I haven't used any of them that much since tech priests are so overpowered that there's no real need for troops. Maybe I should start a new game and try going troop heavy instead.

 

[Maculo]

I am having a blast, but the game does need a balance pass. I think the encounter designs would benefit from the necrons having more unit synergy or combo potential, such as Lychguard/Triach Praetorian. For example, scarabs deployed nearby ranged necrons to block line-of-sight, Cryptek that provide movement and initiative buffs, Flayed Ones with initiative debuffs, etc.

Deathmarks are good with overwatch, but rarely are they paired with something I need to move away from. Normally Flayed Ones are present, but Flayed Ones appear under-tuned.

One thing that I suspected would work out (and has) is stacking movement speed due to how it interacts with cognition. Since you can spend multiple cognition on movement each turn, it is possible to do things like move across the entire map or spend a cognition to end the turn next to a cognition generator which replenishes the expense and then puts you ahead +1 at the start of the next turn.

More so than speed movement, I would just stack the traits that award cognition. There area traits that awards cognition each turn, allow you servitor to absorb all the cognition points from landmarks (great when landmarks have 2-3 cognition), make the next weapon cost 0 cognition, refill your cognition bar every 5 turns, and one that provides cognition per kill. In addition, there are litanies (forget the name) that grants 3, 6, and 9 cognition points. Once you stack all of these traits and abilities, you practically have free reign across the map.

Currently, I have a Priest with 2 plasma weapons that hit every target in a straight line (cost 3 and 4 cognition points to use). I also equipped the 20% crit gloves and obtained that Dominus trait that awards 15% crit if you do not equip a melee weapon. I start every turn trying to find the best stack to hit as many enemies at once. I pop an energy enhancer (costs 0 cognition with trait), use the Free Cognition ability (next weapon costs 0 cognition), and unload my weapons on a pack of enemies or priority target. More often than not, the AI just melts. Although what I believe truly screws the AI is just the sheer amount of movement awarded by cognition points. At one point, I killed the priority targets, scanned all the consoles on the map, and then ran to safety. The AI never had a chance. Hence, I would understand if the devs put a cap on the number of times one could use cognition for additional movement, or placed a movement penalty on characters with heavy weapons.

 

[J1M]

This game has a similar problem as xcom does, which is that each round is essentially a puzzle. The puzzle is how to prevent the opponent from acting. Most often by eliminating them. Sometimes by moving out of range.

Not sure how you would fix this without revisiting lethality in general. Aside from a couple troops, you dont have anything you could sacrifice when the unit count is so low.

There is also the issue that more resiliant units are generally more dangerous. There is a lot of design space for "tanky" or "glass cannon" units being ignored. I assume in 40k that diversity is expressed at the faction level instead of inside each faction.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

So this game is worth it you guys are telling me. I'll check it out.

 

[Balor]

It certainly needs balance fixes - it was ok at first, but than it felt like uber easy mode. Being capable of unlimited cognition movement seems like a bug to me, some missions award 1000+ blackstone and, indeed, there is absolutely no incentive to employ troops except meat shield servitors to 'coup de gra' fallen Necrons mostly except very early in the game.

 

[Jinn]

So this game is worth it you guys are telling me. I'll check it out.

Do not play it now, unless you want a super easy playthrough. Wait for them to address the difficulty. Enough people are being vocal about it that I'm assuming it's happen pretty quickly.

 

[Galdred]

It seems like the global level increases by 3 every time. Or alternatively, going from level 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 2 counts as the global level going up twice.

The global timer increases by 3 of the level is 3 or less, and 4 if it is 4+ I believe.
Or maybe the cap is higher

 

[Maculo]

This game has a similar problem as xcom does, which is that each round is essentially a puzzle. The puzzle is how to prevent the opponent from acting. Most often by eliminating them. Sometimes by moving out of range.

Not sure how you would fix this without revisiting lethality in general. Aside from a couple troops, you dont have anything you could sacrifice when the unit count is so low.

There is also the issue that more resiliant units are generally more dangerous. There is a lot of design space for "tanky" or "glass cannon" units being ignored. I assume in 40k that diversity is expressed at the faction level instead of inside each faction.

Without splitting hairs, I do not know if the issue is lethality per se. Each unit is moderately deadly (i.e., not one-shot kill, but also not to be ignored), particularly ranged necrons, but they lack synergy with other units. Each unit has its own gimmick, but none of those gimmicks work together beyond just meatshield and/or repairs. Crypteks, scarabs, and Flayed Ones should do more. For example, Cryptek/scarabs should buff or protect, whereas Flayed Ones should debuff movement/initiative, so that ranged necrons have more of a chance.

With troops, I would place troops on a different resource system. Such a change would better integrate troops into the gameplay in my opinion. As it stands now, troops are just an inferior option compared to heavy weapons and movement. I do not even see how you could ever balance all those options on the same resource system.

Personally, I think the bigger issue is the character progression system and the lack of depth. Initially, I had hoped that each tech priest tree would promote a certain playstyle, but outside Dominus and Lexmechanum (spelling? cognition focused tree). I do not see much of a reason to venture beyond of those two paths. Big cognition and big guns or go home. Also, I think it is a bad idea to tie armor to the skill trees.

As much as I gripe about the design, I do actually like this game. A lot.

 

[Balor]

Personally, I think the bigger issue is the character progression system and the lack of depth. Initially, I had hoped that each tech priest tree would promote a certain playstyle, but outside Dominus and Lexmechanum (spelling? cognition focused tree). I do not see much of a reason to venture beyond of those two paths. Big cognition and big guns or go home. Also, I think it is a bad idea to tie armor to the skill trees.

Well, flamers are also nice and are considered melee for purpose of C. point reduction in Explorator... but not when it comes to 10th level bonus. Which is kind of strange, and compared to equipping two 'big guns' with huge AOE, only one melee weapon is hilariously weak (unless there are AOE melee weapons around, and even than...).

 

[J1M]

Maculo my point about lethality is that it is too high on both sides to enable certain types of gameplay.

Even if I know they will survive it, I wouldn't want a tech priest to take a big hit because it will cost blackstone (xp) if not healed up.

 

[J1M]

It seems like the global level increases by 3 every time. Or alternatively, going from level 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 2 counts as the global level going up twice.

The global timer increases by 3 of the level is 3 or less, and 4 if it is 4+ I believe.
Or maybe the cap is higher

I think it just goes up by the amount before destroyed consoles are subtracted. I had some bad encounters in a boss mission and ended up with +5 to the timer. (Killed boss in one round though lol)

Seems like 3 every regular mission and 5 every boss. Unfortunate that this wasn't better explained.

Has anyone found a point to fully exploring a tomb? I was taking the shortest path to try and keep the global level low.

 

[Galdred]

I think it just goes up by the amount before destroyed consoles are subtracted. I had some bad encounters in a boss mission and ended up with +5 to the timer. (Killed boss in one round though lol)

Seems like 3 every regular mission and 5 every boss. Unfortunate that this wasn't better explained.

Has anyone found a point to fully exploring a tomb? I was taking the shortest path to try and keep the global level low.

Not really, but some encounters give you Blackstone it unlock if you are lucky on the pick the correct option randomly minigame.

 

[J1M]

I think it just goes up by the amount before destroyed consoles are subtracted. I had some bad encounters in a boss mission and ended up with +5 to the timer. (Killed boss in one round though lol)

Seems like 3 every regular mission and 5 every boss. Unfortunate that this wasn't better explained.

Has anyone found a point to fully exploring a tomb? I was taking the shortest path to try and keep the global level low.

Not really, but some encounters give you Blackstone it unlock if you are lucky on the pick the correct option randomly minigame.

I don't think the "pick a glyph" encounters are random. I think each description matches one glyph and there are some random wrong answers added to the mix. Not unlike Darkest Dungeon's environmental objects.

 

[Balor]

Completed the game, final boss has no armor even and died in two hits (though no amount of armor would save him due to Electromancer canticle). Utterly anticlimatic.
'Needs a balance pass' is an understatement.

 

[Jaedar]

ITT the game is actually an admech propaganda simulator.

"And then the macheen spirit destroyed the necron lord in two hits, to symbolize that the eternal union of terra and mars can crush any xeno"

 

[Balor]

"And then the macheen spirit destroyed the necron lord in two hits, to symbolize that the eternal union of terra and mars can crush any xeno"

Yea, compared to an overpowered techpriest with guns sticking out of every orifice, even Terminators seem like children with plastic shovels.

 

[Balor]

Anyway, the game has a ton of potential - this is tottally a case of 'mods (or patches) will fix it', though I'd welcome some addition of cover and more deeply tactical elements.
What *really* must go is over-abundance of blackstone and unlimited cognition movement, *asap*. Maybe latter can be left to 10th level explorators, to offset their lack of ranged weaponry.

 

[lightbane]

Yea, compared to an overpowered techpriest with guns sticking out of every orifice, even Terminators seem like children with plastic shovels.

Funny that, Techpriests in FFG pnp games were always hax, at first I thought the writers were having a nerd-boner with the cogboys, but it seems this also applies here as well. The AM' army in the tabletop game is also quite powerful IIRC too.

But two-shotting a Necron Lord is too much.

 

[J1M]

Anyway, the game has a ton of potential - this is tottally a case of 'mods (or patches) will fix it', though I'd welcome some addition of cover and more deeply tactical elements.
What *really* must go is over-abundance of blackstone and unlimited cognition movement, *asap*. Maybe latter can be left to 10th level explorators, to offset their lack of ranged weaponry.

The game has line of sight. How would cover make your experience better (not just more similar to xcom)?

 

[Balor]

Anyway, the game has a ton of potential - this is tottally a case of 'mods (or patches) will fix it', though I'd welcome some addition of cover and more deeply tactical elements.
What *really* must go is over-abundance of blackstone and unlimited cognition movement, *asap*. Maybe latter can be left to 10th level explorators, to offset their lack of ranged weaponry.

The game has line of sight. How would cover make your experience better (not just more similar to xcom)?

I mean partial cover with miss chances. Unlimited cognition movement, again, makes that a moot point though from some point onward...

But two-shotting a Necron Lord is too much.

I've run some numbers and using 'overzealous' to stack two +12 damage buffs from Iron Soul and force field generators should be enough to *one* hit him using a 0Cp mechadendrite. *sigh*

 

[Balor]

Yup. Even no force field generators are needed, just level 2 mechadendrite + one damage buff from canister.
Sheesh, I'm not a power gamer per se, but this is just too much.

 

[Jinn]

It is a bit annoying that the game was released with such a lack of difficulty. I wonder why the developers thought it was an acceptable amount of challenge. There is so much that is good going on here that it seems like a strange oversight. For that matter, if you're going to release a game without difficulty options, you'd better make sure its only mode is going to offer up some interesting struggles.

I know they're going to fix it, and I've got a lot of love for this small team, but the more I think about, the more it kind of boggles my mind.

 

[J1M]

It wouldn't surprise me if they only designed for the case of players taking an entire tree before selecting a second entire tree.

Design is a position most people would like to have that is hard to measure for in interviews. Leads to the selection of people with high charisma, or who have "experience". What you'd actually want here is more along the lines of an xcom incel.

 

[Jinn]

A post about re-balancing from the devs on the steam forums popped up a little while ago.

Alt [developer] 57 minutes ago

Hi all.
Rather than individually posting a responses may I please ask if you have a bug that is not already listed in the bug subforum then please post in there

Posting here increases the chance we may not see it, and sadly thats only going to frustrate you guys, because it'll look like we're not fixing it.

For balancing we're unsure at this point if the changes will effect your saves, but at a rough guess it's likely. As such we have to take care in how we approach this. Once we know the directions and changes we will make we'll be better informed to get back to you guys on what the plans are. Currently there are bugs we've noticed that actually effect the difficulty of the game (making it easier) which explains why mid-late game is not the challenge we were expecting.

One such bug is a skill that reduces the cost of all weapons CP cost by one. This wasn't intended, it was meant to reduce the cost of the weapons at all, just an item. Players were stacking this and not seeing any challenge in midgame as CP wasn't part of the game any more.

Thanks for all the feedback so far. we can see that with a community like you guys we've clearly made something your all happy with and wanting more from us. This isnt the kind of support that's given to awful games and we couldn't be happier!

Thank you.

Cool. Really hoping this gets sorted out in the next week or two. Really want to play this game.

 

[J1M]

A post about re-balancing from the devs on the steam forums popped up a little while ago.

Alt [developer] 57 minutes ago

Hi all.
Rather than individually posting a responses may I please ask if you have a bug that is not already listed in the bug subforum then please post in there

Posting here increases the chance we may not see it, and sadly thats only going to frustrate you guys, because it'll look like we're not fixing it.

For balancing we're unsure at this point if the changes will effect your saves, but at a rough guess it's likely. As such we have to take care in how we approach this. Once we know the directions and changes we will make we'll be better informed to get back to you guys on what the plans are. Currently there are bugs we've noticed that actually effect the difficulty of the game (making it easier) which explains why mid-late game is not the challenge we were expecting.

One such bug is a skill that reduces the cost of all weapons CP cost by one. This wasn't intended, it was meant to reduce the cost of the weapons at all, just an item. Players were stacking this and not seeing any challenge in midgame as CP wasn't part of the game any more.

Thanks for all the feedback so far. we can see that with a community like you guys we've clearly made something your all happy with and wanting more from us. This isnt the kind of support that's given to awful games and we couldn't be happier!

Thank you.

Cool. Really hoping this gets sorted out in the next week or two. Really want to play this game.

Some self-imposed restrictions that should fix the difficulty:

1) Don't use more than one cognition point for movement per turn
2) Take an entire category of skills before starting a second specialization (most of the best skills have no prereqs, and being a generalist lets you cherry pick equipment from each specialization)

Optional modifiers for additional difficulty:
* Only take 2 tech priests each mission (should even out the action economy and encourage more troop usage, but I wouldn't apply this one myself because I would find it less enjoyable)
* Don't level your tech priests past rank 10 (this might be pretty brutal due to the way better items cost more to equip)