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Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Why do I suddenly have this urge to play a melee Shadow Warrior?
Go for it, or make a White Lion. May as well have fun. With so many dysfunctional PQs and shit quest rewards (2k xp for a quest turn in? That's two mobs worth of xp, wtf), we will be grinding something and better to do it with something you enjoy.
 
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Mangoose

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Why do I suddenly have this urge to play a melee Shadow Warrior?
Go for it, or make a White Lion. May as well have fun. With so many dysfunctional PQs and shit quest rewards (2k xp for a quest turn in? That's two mobs worth of xp, wtf), we will be grinding something and better to do it with something you enjoy.
LOL I meant that I'm pretty sure the Melee tree of the SW is shit. Or I wouldn't be surprised.

Anyways, we need a tank, because I expect to PVP with you guys. That's either me or Cheetah, and we're not sure if Cheetah wants to go Shield or 2H. PVP tanking requires a Shield, because the Tank's chief mechanic is to "Guard" a teammate, which allows you to take half their damage. That damage can be parried/blocked/dodged, etc. Thus, a 2Her means you lose all the Blocking mitigation a Shield can give you. I mean, this is strictly for group play, you can roam around with a "DPS tree" tank no problem (though even you need a shield to HoldTheLine).
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
[
LOL I meant that I'm pretty sure the Melee tree of the SW is shit. Or I wouldn't be surprised.
That's what would make it funny though. Sometimes those gimped as fuck characters can be rewarding in their own way.
 
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I tried this a bit last weekend. Built an alt army, but didn't get any character above 9. (except in renown rank)

Are you people pro gaymers with voice comms and stuff?
 

Mangoose

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I tried this a bit last weekend. Built an alt army, but didn't get any character above 9. (except in renown rank)

Are you people pro gaymers with voice comms and stuff?
I can be a a try-hard, yes, but not enough so that I pay for a server for teamspeak/ventrilo/mumble/whatever.

Voice chat makes recorded videos way more fun to watch though.

What class is you btw?
 

SmartCheetah

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I'll probably stick to sword&board. Still trying to get my life together and find some time to play.

Do we have any guild?
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
I am in Border Patrol, which has been nice so far.

If I see you online, I will try to add you.
 

A horse of course

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I could go on discord/ventrilo or w/e once I hit summer vacation, as I'd rather not let my co-workers hear me calling Mangoose a fat nigger for now.
 

A horse of course

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Would be nice to see little touches like mobs actually using their abilities etc. I recall a dev video from last year pouring water on the idea of spending too much effort on npc scripting and stuff, though. Apparently it's just too much work when that effort could be spent catering to balance autists :smug:


 
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Joined
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I tried this a bit last weekend. Built an alt army, but didn't get any character above 9. (except in renown rank)

Are you people pro gaymers with voice comms and stuff?
I can be a a try-hard, yes, but not enough so that I pay for a server for teamspeak/ventrilo/mumble/whatever.

Voice chat makes recorded videos way more fun to watch though.

What class is you btw?
I don't like using or even listening to voice comms, even if it's monocled banter like Ed calling everyone a fat nigger. (but I'll probably get distracted/bored and wander away anyways sooner or later)

Bright Wizard at rank 11/rr 12 now. And WP, SM and KotBS at around 8 or 9. And some others at...
 

Mangoose

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I tried this a bit last weekend. Built an alt army, but didn't get any character above 9. (except in renown rank)

Are you people pro gaymers with voice comms and stuff?
I can be a a try-hard, yes, but not enough so that I pay for a server for teamspeak/ventrilo/mumble/whatever.

Voice chat makes recorded videos way more fun to watch though.

What class is you btw?
I don't like using or even listening to voice comms, even if it's monocled banter like Ed calling everyone a fat nigger. (but I'll probably get distracted/bored and wander away anyways sooner or later)

Bright Wizard at rank 11/rr 12 now. And WP, SM and KotBS at around 8 or 9. And some others at...
I'm leveling an IB and an MDPS (either White Lion or Slayer), bc not sure if someone will want to be a dedicated tank, nor am I sure if there is anyone running MDPS assist train.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Hit 31 on WP. Been tied up with work/life. I keep finding epic Archmage, IB, and White Lion items. No WP epics though :(
 

Jacob

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
I'm playing WP at rank 7 now

Getting a stable connection to a UK server from SEA is :negative:
 

SmartCheetah

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I'm little confused in playing tanky KOTBS in scenarios. Dunno If I'm doing something wrong or good really. I'm in the middle of the table mostly with huge amount of damage done (3rd - 4th place) which tells me that something must be wrong. How come that sword+board tank is doing so much damage? I'm probably not helpful to my teammates at all(except auras and using that skill that takes damage for selected party member)
I was using that skill where your guy raises his shield and it's supposed to mitigate some ranged damage for the people behind but I'm not even sure if that's working. Also, taunting targets who were biggest threat, so people could have that %bonus damage against them.

Anyway, I want to try something else. I'm not especially fond of such "passive" gameplay. I'll probably roll a zealot on destro side and something else in Order (Haven't decided which one yet.)
Which class is more newbie friendly? I don't mind being a healer or a dps. What I want is to actually see that I'm doing something.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
This may be a Mangoose question. I am technically new myself, but this is my impression or what I have heard/read:
  • White Lion: I hear good things about White Lion. Specifically, that White Lion can eat certain classes alive, but they may have been nerfed. They are melee DPS with a pet.... (wait for it...wait...) Lion.
  • Swordmaster: I hear good things about this class for DPS. In my brief RVR experience, I have seen Swordmasters wreck certain classes. I do not know how complicated it is though.
  • Archmage: Archmage seems to have both decent damage and straight forward backline healing. That may be a good compromise between damage and healing.
  • Slayer: Slayer seems straight forward melee DPS.
  • Warrior Priest: Warrior Priest seems like a hybrid with all the ups and downs that come with it. Specifically, it can burst heal and has an okay selection of offensive and defensive abilities. Moreover, it has group heals, group cleanse, and decent buffs. The drawback, in my opinion, is that it is not a master of any area (healing, damage, tanking, etc). Like many of the classes, it is a team player, and so do not expect a great solo performance in RVR.
I do not know enough about the other classes to give an impression, and I only really play Order. I have a level 5 Witch Elf on Destruction, but that is about it.
 

Mangoose

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Maculo

Okay this is experience from live, and early live (before Slayers, KotBS, Blackguards, Choppa). And a bit group oriented perspective:
  • White Lions and Slayers are pretty much straightforward melee DPS. Different mechanics, but same roles. Same with Marauders and Choppas. It's Witch Hunters and Witch Elves that are different because they're glass cannons.
  • Swordmasters... Well, all the tanks can do good DPS, and wreck (bad players). The thing is that - working in a group - you're just not as optimal as an MDPS. If you already have another tank, of course. Soloing may be a different story.
  • Actually all the healers can heal and damage. Just not super great damage. Zealots' and Runepriests' trees have more to do with whether (IIRC) you're AOE oriented, single target oriented, or DOT oriented. But again, in a premade group, you want to play your optimal role. On the other hand, soloing is not bad for Archmages/Shamans.
  • Warrior Priests - You're completely correct. The classes are all "team players." Only DPS picking off stragglers and bad players can do decent solo in Scenarios or RvR. Besides the fact that DPS is not the goal - winning areas/keeps/scenario objectives, those are the goals.
  • Honestly you're not gonna do any good if you run around solo (as in, away from a party/warband), unless you're one of the glass cannon DPS (Witch Hunters/Witch Elves/Bright Wizard/Sorcerers (assuming they actually balanced the BWs). But you're most likely going to run into groups, so it's mostly gonna be a kamikaze attack. The implementation of stealth is just not great. Not that I want "WoW stealth" either. Probably would've been better if they didn't bother with stealth, or changed the stealth mechanic so it's not about invisibility but... I dunno, something else.

Destruction and Order classes are for the huge part mirrors of each other, though Destruction seems to favor debuffs while Order favors buffs. The other exception would be Marauders/Shadow Warriors/White Lions/Squig Herders because they switched which had stance and and which had pet mechanics. But roles are pretty similar still.
 

Mangoose

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I'm little confused in playing tanky KOTBS in scenarios. Dunno If I'm doing something wrong or good really. I'm in the middle of the table mostly with huge amount of damage done (3rd - 4th place) which tells me that something must be wrong. How come that sword+board tank is doing so much damage? I'm probably not helpful to my teammates at all(except auras and using that skill that takes damage for selected party member)
I was using that skill where your guy raises his shield and it's supposed to mitigate some ranged damage for the people behind but I'm not even sure if that's working. Also, taunting targets who were biggest threat, so people could have that %bonus damage against them.

Anyway, I want to try something else. I'm not especially fond of such "passive" gameplay. I'll probably roll a zealot on destro side and something else in Order (Haven't decided which one yet.)
Which class is more newbie friendly? I don't mind being a healer or a dps. What I want is to actually see that I'm doing something.
The thing about taking damage from another class (Guard) is that you are able to mitigate that damage so much. It's 50% damage, btw. Try playing without it, and see how many more people die. Tanks also have more CC than other classes (realistic "tanking" heh). Those are the chief reasons to have a tank. You *think* you don't help, but you have to realize you're increasing the survivability of your allies, which means they can do more DPS and more healing.

Taunting IIRC is actually rather weak. "Challenge" at level 20, I'll just quote, "hits every enemy in a pretty wide arc in front of you, and reduces their damage by 30% against everyone that's not you (this means that a challenged DPS that's attacking the one you're guarding will deal to him just the 20% of his normal damage) for 15 seconds, unless they turn on you and hit you 3 times (oh please do that, lol)."

That quote was from this link: http://www.almarsguides.com/war/classes/abriaelsguide.cfm

Edit: In other words, class roles don't really "show up" until level 20-30.
 
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Mangoose

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Doesnt matter as long as it's straight forward for a newbie like me.
I dunno if any class is necessarily straightforward, being a team PVP game. You're gonna either need good party members that support each other, or you do hit and run tactics.

Edit: Moreover, half your job as any class is support and control. This game has collision detection. You can literally hold a chokepoint with tanks and healers. I've seen a set of Ironbreakers shield wall a broken keep door and not let anyone in. DPS, healing, K/D ratio, or any stats don't matter. The objective is what matters.

Edit 2: For example, as a Squig Herder (mirror of Shadow Warrior) I spent my time getting people away from the healers, getting people away from a tank that's holding some ball or getting an objective... And knocking people off cliffs. If someone is low enough at health, you get the extra method of getting rid of him as a threat is just to kill him.

I was playing my Ironbreaker the other day in a scenario (Tier 1.. at level 4 lol) and what I mostly did was block off enemies from getting to the guy with the "flag" (CTF type scenario) using collision detection. Or I would charge at a respawned reinforcement so that they couldn't provide support. Said enemy didn't need to die. He just needed to be distracted.
 
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SmartCheetah

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Allright, I'll try to stick with kotbs for now (Or roll white lion or something later, we'll see)
I've gained a few ranks and did some dungeon raids in RvR area (Got that nice looking helmet. Is that how "the best tier gear" looks in the game? :P)
Farming mostly public quests and doing some normal ones which happen to be on the way. And ofc going on scenarios from time to time.

I'm slowly getting how the skills work and Mangoose was totally right about the tanky role for a team.

Now, new question appeared:
What kind of crafting skill should I get on my main KOTBS? I'll probably find out alone how to grind it.
 

Mangoose

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I'm slowly getting how the skills work and Mangoose was totally right about the tanky role for a team.
Yeah the game is very much a team game. By "team game" I mean anything from athletics to chess. Something where K/D is not the priority terms of winning. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC there was no scenario that was based on killing.

Unfortunately, it is so team game that it had implementation flaws. For example - specifically relevant to you/tanks - those tanky skills I mentioned should be given much earlier, that way you know and understand the role. For example, getting Guard at something like level 5 would let you understand the tank role while doing Tier 1 scenarios. I never thought about it until you mentioned it, because my Squig Herder had its useful skills from the start.

Allright, I'll try to stick with kotbs for now (Or roll white lion or something later, we'll see)
Lol, good that you're willing to play non-human races now. While each faction has mirrors, within the factions every class plays differently. For example, you asked early for a (melee?) DPS class but only human. Well, the human/Empire faction only has the glass cannon type of DPS - Witch Hunters and Bright Wizards. Well, that's on paper... in actuality Mythic completely shitty job balancing the BW in that they could never stop its OPness.

But back from the digression... Say if you want a... medium armor DPS, you're gonna need to play a White Lion or a Slayer (and remember that having a good tank with you is hugely useful in terms of survivability). Honestly I never played all the classes - never played a tank or MDPS - but by doing scenarios in like... T3(?) you can literally see the team dynamics.

For example, as a back-line or skirmishing Squig Herder I could tell when White Lions overextend - as, too far away from tanks and healers. And to be honest they won't get a kill unless it's a low health enemy, and even then you're likely to die in the process. Now, as a Squig Herder (or really, any other class) what I would do is force the White Lion to get even further into the back lines (of course not right into the squishies loll) with a knockback so that they were (A) further away from any killable targets and (B) make him much easier to kill. Or, really, I could/would do the same against every other class, because pushing away support is so damn useful. Actually, I would also use the tactic of getting the White Lion's attention and then kiting him away from a more important target (as a Squig Herder/Shadow Warrior you're quite mobile and more survivable, but don't expect killing blows lol). Of course you would need to do it in a way where the opposing team "losing" their player was more significant than your team "losing" you. Granted, by the umpteenth scenario you're gonna want to just kill shit now and then.

I guess all the tanks do play similarly because it's the core shared tanky skills that matter and are used just as much as their regular abilities (example, skills I mentioned in the above posts). Honestly Mythic was very clever in that they made tanks actually tank in PVP. Not just as heavily armored defensive characters, but they actually gave them a lot of CC (I think tanks had the most CC than the other classes actually) and stuff like Guard so that they really grabbed aggro. To the point where, at least to me, it was a hard decision whether to try to kill a squishier melee DPS but Guarded target first, or try to get past the tank to get at their healers, etc. I guess in a way it was situational, a la whether or not the player was bad lol like the overextending White Lion above.

Now, new question appeared:
What kind of crafting skill should I get on my main KOTBS? I'll probably find out alone how to grind it.
Sorry, no idea here, I've never been much of a crafter in a game unless I was really dedicated to the game, and there weren't funner things to do (like scenarios).
 

A horse of course

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Just read on the forums that this weekend is double XP and RP :dance:
 

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