Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Warhammer Warhammer: Vermintide 2

SerratedBiz

Arcane
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
4,143
you gather power with better gear but you have zero clue what this power stat really do,

There's a tooltip if you hover your mouse over it in the inventory screen.

I've played since Recruit in only Quick Play games with human parties, no AI unless someone leaves. If anything, I have lost a couple of missions but overall difficulty is down because heroes get so much better options and weapons now, and players are more aware of what they should be doing instead of just rushing and dying on their own.

Protip: If you're worried about who's getting the most kills at the end of the game, you're part of the problem.
 

Wild Slop

Arcane
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
2,307
Location
Crow's Nest
Maybe poor match making is to blame. Those level 1 - 4 people playing on the easiest setting aren't retarded for not having memorized all aspects of the game. Though it is helpful to have people pointing out where special pickups are (Tomes and Grimoires). What they are and what the game mechanics are should be made clear. What are Tomes and Grimoires? You need to find out or have a beta player explain it to you, hopefully while not throwing a childish temper tantrum, once you know it isn't complicated but the game doesn't say, the tutorial teaches that WSAD is how you move after all.

I agree that things such power levels and weapon types are unclear in terms of effectiveness. I have some weapons lower in power level that do higher damage with similar attack speed on the training dummies at home base. This makes simply displayed information confusing or even near useless. Is this a case of sloppily implemented starting gear?
The tool tip does not help with this. It does show an item's properties percentage range. What does that mean? I gather it shows what possible increase in strength you may randomly get up to on a reroll)


As far as the mission selection... Is the 1st mission on the bottom path (Farm one) a considered a higher level than the 1st mission on the top path or is it the just a new line of missions? It feels like I'm having a harder time than I should be to get through that farm one (which is where I got my start).
Granted I was fresh off the boat but now I'm closing in on level 10 with my Witch Hunter and I still have a hard time feeling any progress (on that farm level). Is there an element of enemy level scaling even when playing on the easiest setting? If there is, forget about not wanting to be paired with lower level players I don't want to be paired with higher level ones.
Last night I played a different missions (on easy) this time located at the top of the mission select screen - and I was actually able to enjoy myself and not have that struggling to keep my head above water feeling.

This isn't a matter of me wanting it overly easy I'm just feeling like the balance is off for new players looking to get to a start with other new players and setting on easy to learn the ropes. When I feel I've gained enough experience I'll change the difficulty to join the kool kids klub.
 

Dawkinsfan69

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Bethestard
Joined
Jun 3, 2016
Messages
2,815
Location
inside ur mom ᕦ( ▀̿ Ĺ̯ ▀̿ )ᕤ
So is the game any good?

I had fun for about 20 hours but now the game is often just frustrating due to the mass amount of dipshits who have no clue what they're doing. The quality of players was a lot better in beta and once the flood gates opened it seems like every group I match with is full of idiots. The game is NOT fun when you're playing with people who don't know how to block/dodge etc.. If you know enough decent players though it's great.

Maybe poor match making is to blame. Those level 1 - 4 people playing on the easiest setting aren't retarded for not having memorized all aspects of the game. Though it is helpful to have people pointing out where special pickups are (Tomes and Grimoires). What they are and what the game mechanics are should be made clear. What are Tomes and Grimoires? You need to find out or have a beta player explain it to you, hopefully while not throwing a childish temper tantrum, once you know it isn't complicated but the game doesn't say, the tutorial teaches that WSAD is how you move after all.

I agree that things such power levels and weapon types are unclear in terms of effectiveness. I have some weapons lower in power level that do higher damage with similar attack speed on the training dummies at home base. This makes simply displayed information confusing or even near useless. Is this a case of sloppily implemented starting gear?
The tool tip does not help with this. It does show an item's properties percentage range. What does that mean? I gather it shows what possible increase in strength you may randomly get up to on a reroll)


As far as the mission selection... Is the 1st mission on the bottom path (Farm one) a considered a higher level than the 1st mission on the top path or is it the just a new line of missions? It feels like I'm having a harder time than I should be to get through that farm one (which is where I got my start).
Granted I was fresh off the boat but now I'm closing in on level 10 with my Witch Hunter and I still have a hard time feeling any progress (on that farm level). Is there an element of enemy level scaling even when playing on the easiest setting? If there is, forget about not wanting to be paired with lower level players I don't want to be paired with higher level ones.
Last night I played a different missions (on easy) this time located at the top of the mission select screen - and I was actually able to enjoy myself and not have that struggling to keep my head above water feeling.

This isn't a matter of me wanting it overly easy I'm just feeling like the balance is off for new players looking to get to a start with other new players and setting on easy to learn the ropes. When I feel I've gained enough experience I'll change the difficulty to join the kool kids klub.

The maps get a lot easier as you become more familiar with them because you'll be able to dart through areas more quickly. The more time you spend doping around means there's more time for bosses/specials/hordes to spawn and fuck you up. This is why playing with noobs is intolerable, because they're slow as fuck/trying to explore and they don't know how to deal with the enemies. A good group can get through one of those maps in 15 mins while a shit one will spend 40 minutes screwing around and then wipe when a boss spawns.

Enemies don't scale with hero level/power, they only get stronger when you increase the difficulty from rookie to whatever. You're worrying too much about item level, just equip the highest level items you have and go. Gear is useless until you're around 300 item level and you'll probably get sick of the game before you get there. Tomes and grims also don't matter and you'll probably learn what they are eventually through playing.

Also protip: increasing difficulty is useless until all of your items are about 100 power level
 

Nael

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
11,384
Location
Indy
My Steam name is Nael btw if anyone wants to play. I'm level 8 on Sienna
 

Wild Slop

Arcane
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
2,307
Location
Crow's Nest
I'm about to get on right now. There's a lot of Naels in the search.

My Steam name is Sloppy and I have same icon as avatar as I do here.
 

Nael

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
11,384
Location
Indy
I'm about to get on right now. There's a lot of Naels in the search.

My Steam name is Sloppy and I have same icon as avatar as I do here.

Same here. I mean... Nael and same avi. I'll look for ya.
 

Nael

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
11,384
Location
Indy
Both our accounts are private. I think that's why a search didn't turn up. I found you in the RPGCodex group.
 

27

Educated
Joined
Jul 1, 2006
Messages
89
Location
Paraelemental Plane of Vodka
So is the game any good?
Short version: fuck yes.


A bit longer one:
The game still has some mildly-to-seriously irritating problems, so YMMV as to how tolerant you are towards indie devs not being able to fix all the more or less visible problems with the game at launch.

The first and most visible one is that it could've used another month in beta. As it is, it still has some issues concerning stability, UI, and the way it presents information about its mechanics.
The other and possibly the biggest 'problem', at least according to this topic - this is a 'true' co-op game, for better or worse. If you have no one to play with, you might have some issues with finding decent teams who aren't braindead, can actually read, and do all that basic stuff. After you've passed the 'recruit' difficulty it's not really a problem any more, though. From time to time you get an idiot who thinks this is a Dark Messiah remake and rushes alone dying instantly and repeatedly - but thankfully the game includes a kick vote functionality, which fixes the problem to a degree. Still, it's so much better to play with people who communicate and have at least the basic idea of how to play co-op games.

Other than that, I'm not that fond of this more 'RPG-ish' direction it took. I talked about it previously and nothing really changed since beta, besides them nerfing the most idiotic/'OP' builds that trivialised (parts of) the game. Which is obviously a good thing. But I feel that VT2 is way more reliant on 'builds', ie. gear with proper stats, than VT1 ever was. The upside is that it gives the game way more variety (in VT1 you'd just hunt for one or two 'must include' weapon traits, two trinkets, and that was that) - so far there aren't any clearly superior traits, properties etc. so -at least at the moment- you can experiment with various equipment and make a lot of (thankfully rather subtle, for the most part) changes to your stats and and the way your weapons work. Also, the rate of getting new gear is ok (but I suppose that's highly subjective), and you get a lot of new stuff to play with after just a couple of missions. So all those new systems to play with, combined with the game becoming waaay harder on higher difficulties may considerably increase its longevity.

As many have noted above, many mechanics are poorly explained (or not at all), and you have to check the official site/wiki/reddit to find out how stuff actually works, and that's obviously a terribly lazy design. They've already improved the UI in that regard a bit since beta, so hopefully it soon gets to a point where new players can get the basic idea about the game from actually playing reading stuff that's in-game - not having to read external stuff. After all, it can be remedied with just a bunch of info-screens and/or pop-ups.

Not sure if you care about 'lore' and all that silly stuff - I don't really like Warhammer (or at best I have some mixed feelings about it), so I generally appreciate the game not for but despite it being set in that setting. It somehow took only the parts of it I can stomach (well, it added chaos in the sequel, but I suppose I'll let it pass), which make it seem like WH isn't as retarded as we all know it actually is. And then it created a simple but pretty well presented story, especially considering the genre. I feel that the missions, contrary to what DeepOcean said, are well crafted in that regard, and usually waaay better than the ones in VT1. Not to say that it's a brilliant storytelling or anything, but it's good enough and charming enough - there's abundant dialogue between the main characters, which can get tiring from time to time (if you happen to not like those characters), but usually adds significantly to the experience.

And the most important part - actual melee combat mechanics are very good, for the most part. They're an improvement on VT1 in every way and as soon as you get to a difficulty level that actually demands that you use that system to its full extent, instead of 'LMB spam on recruit', it gets really fun. So it's a bit unfortunate that the higher difficulties are gated, but the upside is that it keeps all the headless chicken from ruining your games. My one gripe is that some weapons seem to be more straightforward or 'specialised' than others, which makes them somewhat more boring, but that can be easily remedied by just picking other weapons.


So all in all - it's a very good game that could still use A LOT of polish, but is perfectly fun and playable - as long as you're able to find competent people to play with, or have enough patience to endure the first few hours where you're limited to the lowest difficulty and have to play with all the rushing rambo-wannabes. It's a melee-centric co-op action 'horde-style' game with some very slight 'RPG' elements - NOT a 'FPS Diablo with some twitch elements' aRPG, as some people whining about the devs nerfing all the clearly broken abilities seem to think. This definitely isn't Warframe.
 

Nael

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
11,384
Location
Indy
So is the game any good?
as long as you're able to find competent people to play with, or have enough patience to endure the first few hours where you're limited to the lowest difficulty and have to play with all the rushing rambo-wannabes.

As myself and others have said don't bother with that unless you wanna join some of us Codexers.

A) Start off with CUSTOM GAME instead of QUICK PLAY so that you can play solo with the bots and can take your time and figure out whatever class you are playing and also learn the maps.
B) If you want to play with others I would recommend either friending some of us on the Codex that play and do some runs with us or go CUSTOM GAME and pick particular maps that aren't the first maps in either of the first 3 Acts as these seem to be the default noob pick-up traps.
C) If you do get into a QUICK PLAY match and see that everyone is under level 10, just leave and find another match. Trust me.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.pcgamer.com/warhammer-vermintide-2-review/

WARHAMMER: VERMINTIDE 2 REVIEW

Warhammer: Vermintide 2's 'AI director' is sadistic. With a lumbering Chaos Warrior already attacking us, the AI summons an armored Stormvermin ambush from behind. Pinched on both sides, they quickly knock out Bardin the dwarf, Kruber the mercenary, and Sienna the fire mage, leaving only me, the nimble elf Kerillian, to save us. Shit's dire, but we've survived worse.

Then, out of nowhere, the AI summons a Chaos Sorcerer. Usually these special enemies like to hang out at a distance and summon tornados that scatter us to the wind—an attack I can easily dodge, but this Chaos Sorcerer wants to make it personal. He teleports to me and begins sucking the soul out of my body, rendering me completely helpless. A party member could save me, but that's pretty hard to do when they're already incapacitated. It's a cruel end to our adventure made even more sinister when, as I'm slowly being dragged to the sorcerer, the Chaos Warrior storms up and finishes me off with a coup de grâce even though I was already as good as dead. I half expect the AI to start teabagging me.

Vermintide 2 can be maddeningly difficult. One or two of my teammates will be incapacitated, surrounded by vermin, and it'll feel like it's game over. Then my hammer smashes in the skull of the last Rotblood and my tunnel vision widens. It's over. We survived. Moments like this evoke the vicious action of Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings—especially when you're an elf, a dwarf, and a human fighting your way through a mine filled with trolls.

As good as Vermintide 2 is at creating epic scenes of tension (even if it sometimes goes too far), it's diminished by a frustrating multiplayer setup that can steal away what valuable agency you have over that experience. Fatshark's sequel is challenging and thrilling, but it can also be frustrating as hell when the multiplayer fails.

Not my kind of grind
Like the first game, Vermintide 2 is a Left 4 Dead-style, four-player co-op first-person action game in which your party wades through treacherous levels fighting off hordes of Skaven, who have now allied with the vicious Chaos raiders. Set during Warhammer's End Times, Vermintide 2's apocalyptic fantasy setting is disturbing and marvellous. Its 13 levels tour ruined cities and treacherous bogs that are each as gorgeous and moody as the last.

With each mission lasting about 30 minutes, you'll end up repeating them. That might sound boring, but each level is expansive enough that revisiting them never feels repetitive thanks, in part, to the AI director mixing up enemy spawn locations. It's a system that mostly works, though some areas of each mission do bleed together because fighting a group of Skaven doesn't feel all that different from fighting a group of Rotblood raiders.

This uncertainty of what enemies spawn, and where, has surprising benefits. In one sequence, my party escorted a minecart through a pitch black stretch of an abandoned mine. The first time I played this mission we had a terrifying fight against a troll that came charging at us from the dark. Another time we were ambushed by a horde of naked clanrats. During my third playthrough, nothing attacked us at all. The silence put me on edge for minutes.

I particularly love the mission Righteous Stand, which starts you in a massacred mountain city before ending with a desperate fight inside an expansive, ruined temple. This finale sees a near endless horde of enemies swarming the party with no salvation in sight until the dormant magic of the cathedral miraculously saves the day.

Unlike Left 4 Dead, however, Vermintide 2 is wearing layers of RPG underwear. It's a lot to take in at first, but I've come to love the nuances each character career (a kind of subclass) offers because each one plays a subtle but crucial role in a party. The five characters have their own special ability, passive bonuses, unlockable skill trees, and weapons. Once you level a character up a bit, you'll also unlock new careers that offer vastly different play styles in addition to each having their own separate skill tree.

Bardin the dwarf's Ironbreaker career is probably my favorite because it transforms him into the closest thing Vermintide has to a tank. When my special meter fills up, I can unleash an ear-splitting roar that draws the ire of every nearby enemy. Fortunately, this ability also grants me unlimited stamina for the next few seconds that I can use to block attacks. With all eyes (and swords) on me, my team can quickly carve through the baddies.

You'd think a loot system would be reason enough to keep playing, but it's the thrill of severing Skaven limbs or surviving an all-out rush by the Rotblood horde that keeps me invested. Despite only using the left and right mouse buttons to attack and block, there's a satisfying depth to combat. Each of the 50-ish weapons has their own timing, attack arcs, and reach but the fighting never feels clumsy or technical. A few swings with a new weapon was all I needed to understand how to best use it in combat.

Bardin's drakegun is a flamethrower that can ignite dozens of enemies when fully charged, while Kerillian's Asrai hunting bow is basically an assault rifle that shoots arrows. Each of the melee weapons is similarly varied, and just when I think I prefer large, slow weapons, like Kruber's halberd and its ability to decapitate multiple enemies in a single swipe, I try out Kerillian's dual daggers and fall in love with how rapidly she can dice wimpy ratmen.

Dodges, parries, and charged attacks were a lot more difficult to master, however. Vermintide 2 feels especially difficult in the first few hours. Despite an entertaining narrative tutorial, it's terrible at explaining how to use these different moves properly. Now that I've mastered the basics, though, I love how challenging Vermintide 2 can be at higher difficulties, where a single enemy attack can nearly kill me. That level of mortality turns even a small fight into a tense dance of slashing and dodging. And if I really want to amp the challenge up, each mission has hidden tomes and grimoires which take up valuable inventory slots and lower the party's overall health in exchange for better loot. I do sometimes resent how mandatory they feel when the party is already struggling to survive, however.

A good team is just as necessary as good reflexes, and Vermintide 2 shines when you're playing with a group of friends. Special monsters like the Skaven Packmaster will slip behind my party during a fight and will try and yank one of us away, requiring the group to move quickly and save our friend. That's not nearly as bad as when a green circle appears at the party's feet, heralding a deadly tornado from a Chaos Sorcerer. These moments are so common, but always surprising, that each session feels like a brutal gauntlet. There are times when the whole party dies and the sense of shared frustration is palpable, but those moments when we do survive are so satisfying.

Winner loot all
While I like Vermintide 2's loot, I hate how I receive and manage it. The inventory screen is poorly organized and rarely displays information that is actually useful. Characters can also share and equip the same trinkets and charms, but there's no ‘equip all’ button. I have to painstakingly switch from character to character to update their gear and free up their currently equipped items for salvaging. It's a nightmare.

Astonishingly, Vermintide 2 lacks a menu that shows even the most basic stats like health or stamina. I'm all for RPG systems that deviate from the norm (Dark Souls 3, I'm looking at you), but it's frustrating how obtuse Vermintide 2 is with its underlying mathematics and stats because it makes meaningful experimentation impossible. Why include weapons that up my chance of scoring a critical hit if I can't determine what my base chance is? Even the meaning of Hero Power, the total measurement of my character's prowess, is hidden behind an easily missed tooltip.

The moments when Rotblood raiders and ratmen Skaven have my party surrounded are thrilling, but if the party dies, I'm often left feeling my time is wasted. It's not that losing in Vermintide 2 can't be fun, but that there are so many variables that can create failure beyond my control. If the party leader (and host of the match) disconnects, all the progress I made on that mission is erased and I have to start over. There's also no way to kick troublesome party members and no indicator of who is speaking using the in-game voice chat. Even my latency is pointlessly hidden. I can do everything right in a mission and still lose due to things I can't control. When coupled with the fact that loot is only rewarded when you successfully beat a mission or gain a level, Vermintide 2 can feel stingy for all the wrong reasons. It's not fun to be deprived of loot necessary to tackling harder difficulties because the host quit.

It's frustrating that a sequel would still struggle to nail such simple multiplayer basics, and the obscured RPG progression doesn't entice me the way it does in similar games. But Vermintide 2 succeeds on the merits of its stellar combat and level design. After nearly 40 hours, that Rotblood warhorn signalling a zerg-like rush of raiders, or the sound of a Gutter Runner assassin chattering in the darkness, still turns my blood to ice.

THE VERDICT
80

WARHAMMER: VERMINTIDE 2
Vermintide 2's combat and level design are so feverishly fun that I'll put up with its bad matchmaking and RPG progression if it means chopping more ratmen in half.
 

Wild Slop

Arcane
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
2,307
Location
Crow's Nest
Yes just last night in fact I, as host, had a crash half way+ through a mission and was told that after a host migration the mission reset all the way back at the beginning. Sad.
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
My updated impressions after playing all classes except the elf in the release version:

-In the beta I got matched up with a lot of competent players who knew all tome/grim locations etc, now the floodgates are open and it can be horrible haha.
-The spawns can be really weird sometimes. Sometimes you just get silent spawns you don't know about. And they can spawn right on top of you or right behind you it seems. Probably buggy.
You can get a patrol of chaos warriors, multiple hookrats, an assassin, a troll or some crap and a horde right on top of each other (splitting your team and instakilling a member or two via telefrag upon spawning)... And of course it happens in a bad spot with little room to move around. Rarely happens, but silent spawns of hookrats and such happen a lot to me.
-Performance can take a bit of a hit sometimes where it didn't do so in the beta. Dunno why. Not too bad though.

-They nerfed the hero power some by capping your effective value per difficulty. If you have 400, but play on recruit, you only have 200 effective. 400 on vet, 600 on champion, uncapped on legend I think.
That makes it seem even more tacked on imo, and makes it harder for less experienced players. Not a big deal for me, but the RPG aspects are kind of crap mostly.
Damage system also got overhauled for release. They nerfed all the big boss melter abilities, but sometimes didn't put anything in place to make some careers competitive.



-Soldier:
Still feels like the runt of the litter. Not bad with halberd, but eh. He is so immobile with his best weapons, swings slow him down a lot. Other classes can scythe through hordes or dance around specials swinging all the time with little to no slowdown even with heavy weapons (elf with glaive for example.) As soldier I'm mostly doing charged swipe + block cancel + dodge back + move forward and repeat. If you use mercenary (starter class) you get more cleave through from the class, that helps a good bit.
The huntsman career was nerfed to the point of being kind of pointless. It was necessary because you could melt bosses superfast, but still. There's little to make up for it. Other classes do literally everything better. Kruber's ranged weapons also seem kind of shit to me compared to what the others have. If you're good at headshotting with the long gun then you can get ammo back with huntsman kruber though. But the gun sucks, takes too long to aim to perfect accuracy.
The foot knight is just a worse tank than the dwarven ironbreaker with weapons that cleave hordes more but don't help much against armor. Pointless to take over merc imo. Soldier is not that stand-out anyway with no really great ranged weapons anymore and his sluggishness.
Soldier also starts with shitty weapon at lvl 1. (greatsword is largely outclassed by executioner sword and esp. halberd). Making him less fun for new players imo.
He's also squishy for a tank/off-tank.
Best played as off-tank with halberd. Has no bells and whistles whatsoever.



-Dwarf.
Easiest probably once you unlock ironbreaker which can do everything, tank well, stun crowds, hack armored single targets with ease, flamethrower crowds (careful in champion and legend with friendly fire), flame pistol specials. Slayer career is also solid but maybe a bit tricky for higher difficulties. Ironbreaker is always an asset to the team pretty much. Standard career is less good and got it's ability to spawn a potion in 1 out of 4 special kills nerfed to spawning a bomb or something. Meh. His non-fire ranged weapons aren't great (except for grudge raker shotgun but it runs out of ammo too fast), and there's little reason not to use shield+axe combo for melee unless you're a slayer.
He does unfortunately also start with a poor weapon combo at lvl 1. Squishy career + 2handed weapon rather than shield+axe.
That being said, dwarf is just a really well-done char overall. Can do pretty much anything you want if you spec for it. Can do multiple things well in the same spec. It's a less dps-ey, more survivable class compared to witchhunter and mage (and probably elf). Pretty much strictly better than kruber and imo best for less skilled players due to the ironbreaker's armor skill.



-Witch Hunter.
He is amazing from lvl 1 already because he starts with his best (imo) melee weapon and a fantastic ranged weapon (not the best per se, but can burst down anything without reload, can also accurately snipe at distance, high dmg against anything).
His rapier + pistol (unlimited ammo) melee choice is fantastic. Attacks barely slow you down if at all, you can move through a horde slashing madly and kill everything (bit tougher against chaos hp sponges but still doable if you aim at head height).
Rapier in general feels kind of too good imo. Quick slashes cleave through a good number of targets, come very fast, no slowdown (or not much), do good headshot damage. Charged thrusts do amazing headshot damage and can 1-2 shot stormvermin depending on hero power etc if you hit the head (super easy). Charged thrusts can also be done in rapid succession.
The handgun for the rapier got nerfed with crazy damage falloff but it's useful against charging berserker guys and such. Esp. if you headshot. Or plague monks.
Once you unlock his bounty hunter class you can get a ranged crit guaranteed every 8 seconds or on melee kill. Combine this with volley/auto pistol altfire and it can chunk bosses and such really well. Add his ultimate ability for even more damage. And he can select a talent that ranged crits consume no ammo, so you can fire a free 8 shot crit volley out of that volley gun every 8 seconds or on melee kill lol. Not as strong as it used to be as a class but still top of the line.
His ability to mow down hordes with rapier but also headshot stormvermin and chaos warriors so easy also imo makes halberd-kruber look kind of pointless. Rapier charged thrust to weak point on bosses also does big damage and has good range.
Volley crossbow is great against stormvermin patrols but I don't use it because those you can just headshot thrust or have sienna burst down with beam+explosion.

Someone up in the thread said the volley pistol is bad because it takes multiple hits to down trash mobs. Don't use it on trash mobs unless you have an ammo box next to you. If you press lmb fast it fires like a genuine semi auto, so you can burst down specials super fast (3-4 rounds on average I think). Stay still and it hits at long range still. And as mentioned above, synergizes well with it's alt fire and bounty hunter abilities vs. bosses. It's my fav. ranged weapon for the guy. I wish the kruber repeater gun would fire like this. Then at least he'd have a decent ranged choice... Blunderbuss is meh now esp. at low hero power vs. difficulty.

Witchhunter is just amazingly versatile while also being super dps imo.


-Bright wizard.
At first she doesn't seem so great, but once you get beam staff (or if you're really good with bolt staff, but I prefer beam) and some decent talents she becomes a monster.
Her dagger is a bit like the rapier (not as good, but close enough). No slowdown, fast swipes that can hit multiple, charged attacks help a bit against armor (esp. the second one).
But mostly you won't need the charged anti armor attacks at all because:
Beam staff has a hidden third attack that is super good against everything. Normally you get a beam (with zoom) on lmb which does low damage but hits many in a row. This sucks, I barely use it. Then you get rmb + lmb for a shotgun heat blast for close range. Great against crowds and massive stagger (but less good against crowds than just rapier-scything through them with witch hunter or using flame thrower with dwarf. She has flamethrower staff as well but it sucks as it lacks the versatility and special murder ability of the beamstaff).
Now the hidden attack (that many don't seem to know about esp. new players) is that if you use lmb beam, then press rmb while holding lmb, you cause a beam explosion that does fairly high damage and can be spammed (also the longer the regular beam was on target the more damage it does, but just quickspam it imo). This can one-shot most specials on a bodyshot and def. on a headshot. 2 shot if hero power is low or high difficulty. You can super quick burst down any special with infinite ammo that way. Does high dmg to bosses as well, goes through armor... Can synch ok with crit power from one of the careers. Spec for crit chance and power (also do that for witchhunter) and you get get mega crits with this. Creates little heat esp with talents. Just amazing.
You may run out of ammo on witchhunter against specials esp. in legend or champion, but with this you can just keep killing them.
Also instakills or twoshots stormvermin for example.

So while the wizard is a bit tricky at first, once you get a beam staff and dagger (flame sword is also good but slows you down when you swing) it's amazing. Add the second career's fast-recharging ultimate fire skull ability (seeks foes, instakills 1 chaos warrior or high dmg to boss, also can hit many trashmobs) and the right talents and my god is this a beastly class. They buffed her for release I think, at least some of her other staffs.

Her starting gear is ok (good sword, but meh fireball staff).

You could also use bolt staff instead of beam but it builds up heat fast and lacks some of the beam versatility imo.

She is imo the strongest contributor to the team if you are a skilled player with the right setup for her because she trivializes specials. Let the others take care of the horde in high difficulty modes to help keep her heat manageable so she can beam-explode specials if possible (because there are so many special spawns and she gets infinite ammo).

-Elf
Haven't tried it yet. Seems to be really good though, similar to witchhunter and wizard in terms of little to no slowdown on attacks, amazing weapon choices etc.


Parties with ironbreaker, wizard, witchhunter and elf can be borderline invincible and have so much overlapping special sniping power, can chunk the fuck out of bosses, tank (bardin) and mow down crowds (tanking is barely even necessary but good to have in a pinch and bardin can use his ult to draw attention away from his buddies from regular enemies)... Kruber really is second tier imo. A bit sad. A change to his halberd moveset (move thrust to last attack or first, or make one type of attack lmb and the other type charged lmb or even the third button) and no more slowdown on strikes (other classes' best weapons don't have it and can do almost everything halberd can do, often better... Elf spear even has the range).
More likely they'll just nerf the other classes at some point again though.

In general I'm having fun but yeah... Wish this had a real single player portion or a better campaign design. More real RPG stuff as well. But that's not something one can expect to happen.
That being said, connection issues from the p2p system, trollish players or inexperienced players, buggy spawns and one particularly shitty boss (burblespue... He is doable but kind of shit imo) can ruin the fun a bit esp if you get a string of shitty matches. Don't be discouraged though. Gets real fun once you find some decent players to play with routinely.


That being said, I share some of the concerns mentioned before about what the longevity of the fun is going to be in this. The progression is rather goofy in the way it's been realized and imo almost gets in the way of the fun more than it helps (esp if you are low hero power for veteran but playing on recruit gets you only inexperienced parties).
New players can have a bit of a hard time if they pick kruber or dwarf or wizard because of the mediocre starting weapons and careers.
Jumping puzzles for grimoirs are a bit overly pixel-perfect at times. Not getting anything (xp, loot) for defeating tough foes etc kind of sucks considering you fight so much. Defeating a big boss char also does nothing lol. At the end of the mission you just get your normal chest and exp.
Bile troll is kind of shitty sometimes. All his swipes are fast and go through blocks to some degree, hit you far away. Can vomit at his feet then go down to regen in the puddle, making it impossible to melee him without taking damage. No prob for wizard or bounty hunter of course.


Overall fun if you know your way around the game and its mechanics, but actually somewhat different compared to the first. Will likely change quite a bit in the future due to balancing and changing of systems.
Not so great if you don't like the co-op dependency and this style of game in general. Also basically kind of a grinding game. At the end of the day, even if you ignore the grind you'll be doing the same maps over and over again and that may just get stale quick.
 
Last edited:

Dawkinsfan69

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Bethestard
Joined
Jun 3, 2016
Messages
2,815
Location
inside ur mom ᕦ( ▀̿ Ĺ̯ ▀̿ )ᕤ
Played a few private maps solo w/ bots and it's kinda funny that bots are way better to play with than pugs in quickmatch. They actually stick with me and when they fall behind, they just teleport to me!

They're useless against bosses and they sometimes get stuck in places but that's a small price to pay.
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
Played a few private maps solo w/ bots and it's kinda funny that bots are way better to play with than pugs in quickmatch. They actually stick with me and when they fall behind, they just teleport to me!

They're useless against bosses and they sometimes get stuck in places but that's a small price to pay.
Bots will use your settings (equipment and I *think* careers) for their chars. They suck at offensive melee, so give the guys who have them shield+1hander, they spend a lot of time blocking. They can snipe specials pretty well though.
High lvl/hero power ironbreaker bot can be pretty nice. I don't think they use charged attacks, but could be wrong. That makes wizard bots kind of shit sadly. If you play witch hunter, you won't get wizard bot I think, so do that for optimal bot party. Or play wizard yourself with beam stuff 3rd attack abuse ;) Not sure if they use ults ever.
There are mods for the first vermintide to make bots totally viable (pick up grims etc, pick up stuff you highlight, even maybe heal only if you tell them, fight much better and whatnot). Hope we'll see this for this one as well.
 

Belegarsson

Think about hairy dwarfs all the time ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Patron
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
1,261
Location
Uwotopia
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I wouldn't write off Bardin's shotgun tbh, it has ridiculous range and damage falloff, can pretty much one shot most elite rats. You should never waste ranged weapon's ammo on ordinary mobs except the flamethrower anyway.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
I'm having fun playing with the ironbreaker and the ranged witch hunter subclass, but that feeling of meh towards the missions is only getting stronger, I already played six of the twelve missions with bots and pubs and of the six starting missions, only Against the grain, Righteous Stand and Empire on Flames dont feel like filler missions, in terms of design, there isn't much to make each mission different so I foresee people just selecting the easiest and quickest mission to pick tomes and grimoires and sticking to it farming on the highest difficulties.

I mean, the Elven temple one has a nice section of you travelling through the woods then ends on a "align the three things" while hordes attacks, meh, festering grounds have you traveling through the woods with the end objective, "destroy the things" while hordes attacks, meh, Consecration of Decay is a fucking sewer level (MEH times 1000) that ends on stay here while hordes attacks. I know this game is a horde mode kind of game but other horde mode games like Payday or even Left for dead tried shaking things a bit on the different missions. Are the later missions more entertaining with the bosses and all? So far I see zero reasons to replay alot of those missions on the higher difficulties.
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
I wouldn't write off Bardin's shotgun tbh, it has ridiculous range and damage falloff, can pretty much one shot most elite rats. You should never waste ranged weapon's ammo on ordinary mobs except the flamethrower anyway.
It's easy to run out if you snipe specials with it from far away because you may not get to pick up the ammo bags they leave for his ranged career imo. Couple that with a lack of ammo boxes/spawns on high difficulties sometimes and you can be out of ammo for most of the level.
Definitely his best ranged option if you don't have drakefire weapons or don't want to use them (after all wizard, elf and witchhunter can massacre specials so easily so you may as well have fun with your ranged choice). Not sure how good it is against bosses now but it used to be pretty decent in the beta as you can go through your (back then larger) ammo pool fast and it does good damage. When I first got it I ended up topping the ranged kill stat on the leaderboards without much effort even against wh/elf. Pretty funny. Not gonna beat a good wizard though, ever. (not that it matters)

Shame you don't get more ranged ammo pool in general. Would be fun to go up against ratling gunners and jezzails (shame they don't have them in game) and such with full ranged barrage on both sides.
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
I'm having fun playing with the ironbreaker and the ranged witch hunter subclass, but that feeling of meh towards the missions is only getting stronger, I already played six of the twelve missions with bots and pubs and of the six starting missions, only Against the grain, Righteous Stand and Empire on Flames dont feel like filler missions, in terms of design, there isn't much to make each mission different so I foresee people just selecting the easiest and quickest mission to pick tomes and grimoires and sticking to it farming on the highest difficulties.

I mean, the Elven temple one has a nice section of you travelling through the woods then ends on a "align the three things" while hordes attacks, meh, festering grounds have you traveling through the woods with the end objective, "destroy the things" while hordes attacks, meh, Consecration of Decay is a fucking sewer level (MEH times 1000) that ends on stay here while hordes attacks. I know this game is a horde mode kind of game but other horde mode games like Payday or even Left for dead tried shaking things a bit on the different missions. Are the later missions more entertaining with the bosses and all? So far I see zero reasons to replay alot of those missions on the higher difficulties.

Bosses range from trivial (Ribspreader) to infuriating (Burblespue). Nothing to write home about imo.
Not sure about them being entertaining either way. If you know how to fight them they're no trouble (except for burblespue possibly), if you aren't up to snuff on the mechanics of the game and have the wrong weapon choices etc then they're boring hp sponges.

Higher difficulties can change what tactics work and such. It's not just stat increases on enemies that you have to match with hero power, but massively increased special spawns and such plus friendly fire (much more of that in legend). Depending on how well you deal with those, you may not enjoy that at all. Easier to get wiped even as a good party if a bunch of hookrats with bugged spawn audio cues (missing) or some such spawn in right behind you while you're fighting a horde + troll or something.
Plus high player level talents can really increase the effectiveness of some classes. The traits on orange/red items are mostly whatever with an exception or two.

IDK man. I'm not at the point yet where I'm tired of the ratslaying, but it'll no doubt come. 1-2 new maps are planned to appear as dlc soon, so there's that. This could have been better as a first person ARPG with co op drop-in for it's normally single-player campaign imo, but that's never gonna happen.

As far as running the shortest map for grim/tomes, keep in mind that you get half a bar on your treasure chest for quick play, and replaying the same mission over and over would get old even faster. I used to do it a bit in vermintide 1 though.
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
Playing a bit more with huntsman kruber, he's actually pretty ok against bosses with longbow and his ult. So maybe I was wrong. Not that great in regular play though imo.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-03-12-warhammer-vermintide-2-review-a-sequel-done-right

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 review - a sequel done right
Sequels for the sequel god.

jpg

recommended-large-net.png

A highly accomplished sequel that innovates without losing sight of what made the first one great.


When it comes to tinkering with a game like Vermintide, it's very easy to muddle what made the original work - the video game equivalent of messing with the thermostat rather than putting another jumper on. I remember feeling that way when Left 4 Dead 2 launched; I loved the first game, but there was something about the sequel that felt off. I had issues with the pacing, chiefly, but there was something else about the experience that didn't quite work, like it had lost some essential part of what made it great along the way.

A lot of changes, additions and alterations have been ushered in for Vermintide 2 (the preposterously long name Warhammer: The End Times - Vermintide has been sensibly shortened to Warhammer: Vermintide 2, for one thing) and they combine to make a game that's considerably different in both scope and execution. Crucially, however, these changes do nothing to diminish the fun at Vermintide's chaotic heart. Rather, they build on the legacy of the first game to create a sequel that's simultaneously broader in scope and more streamlined than its predecessor.

For the uninitiated, Vermintide 2 plonks a team of four (out of five playable) characters at the start of a level, challenging them to see their mission through to the end without being torn to pieces along the way. Each of the five characters - Bright Wizard, Waywatcher, Witch Hunter, Dwarf Ranger and Empire Soldier - acts as a separate class rather than just a character skin, offering players roles to specialise in and squabble over. Tucked away in each level are three tomes and two grimoires. Tomes occupy the inventory slot reserved for healing tools, while grimoires take the place of potions. Both improve the quality of gear players receive as a reward for successfully completing a mission, although carrying them is not without risk - each grimoire reduces the players' health pool by a third, significantly narrowing their chances of success.

jpg

Bang bang Sigmar's silver hammer…

The rest is all hacking, slashing and shooting, and returning players will be reassured to hear that Vermintide 2's combat feels very, very familiar. Swords and axes bite into flesh with a sense of weight and feedback that few games can equal; arrows connect with a satisfying thwack, while rifles and pistols crack with a sense of authority. It all combines to make you feel extremely powerful - when things are going well, at least.

Familiar though the combat is, that's not to say that Vermintide 2 doesn't innovate. Each of the game's heroes has three different careers to choose from, all with their own passive traits and active abilities. The careers provide a sense of variety for each hero, allowing for proper character builds where before equipping a different weapon was about as far as changing each class went. Bardin the Dwarf, for example, can be played as a Ranger, allowing him to generate ammo for others and deploy a smoke bomb in the midst of battle, or you might choose to play him as a slayer - eschewing any ranged weapons whatsoever in favour of a strong focus on melee attacks. Players are also free to respec these careers between missions, so there's good room for experimentation.

The heroes of Vermintide 2 aren't the only ones with new toys to play with, mind you - the Skaven horde has brought some new friends along for the ride. There's an entirely new enemy faction in the form of the Rotbloods, a chaotic band of raiders from the north who are devoted to Nurgle, aka the god of pestilence. They're a refreshing bunch to have in the game, even if their manners are lacking; hearing them scream about spreading contagion and wholesale slaughter adds a sense of menace where the Skaven can seem a bit ridiculous or even cutesy. Both factions also bring new special enemies to the table, from the Blightstormers and Chaos Warriors to Bile Trolls and Chaos Spawns. These newly swollen enemy ranks are varied and tough enough to keep even experienced players on their toes - indeed, while the Stormvermin of the first Vermintide used to be quite intimidating, they're now a minor irritant compared to what else lurks in the shadows.

jpg

It has to be said that parts of Vermintide 2 are very bleak indeed.

Refreshing and monstrous as Vermintide 2's new enemies are, however, it's in the level design that this really shines. There are 13 missions for players to tackle, and some of them are absolutely gorgeous. Hacking one's way through a forest or through the streets of towns brought to ruin by the rotbloods and ratmen, it's hard to resist the temptation to stop and look around at the level of environmental detail. The lighting is great as well - whether it's a warm glow suffusing the action or the flicker of a torch lighting a dank tunnel, there's a tremendous sense of atmosphere that's every bit as compelling as the game's combat.

Vermintide 2, then, is a very well made game indeed - it's smartly presented and a great deal of fun to play. As ever with something that relies so heavily on having an engaged player base, however, the question of longevity ought to be addressed. The first Vermintide had a choke point when it comes to the loot grind - a point past which you have to really work to get the items you want, either hoping the random number generator spits out the weapon you desire, or otherwise mulching enough weapons of the same quality tier to try and craft it yourself. It wasn't broken, per se, but it asked a lot of players without giving a lot back. Balancing that grind was undoubtedly one of the biggest challenges facing Vermintide 2, so it should come as no surprise there have been a lot of changes.

The reworked loot system has clearly taken a few of its cues from Destiny. Characters now have power levels, with gear contributing to an overall score. Damage output scales with power level, meaning in under ten hours I managed to kit out my Waywatcher with gear that put out about the same amount as damage as the best loot I managed to get in over a 100 hours spent playing the first game. What's especially nice about it is that, between the power level and the class abilities, the weapons themselves are no longer the be all and end all - their traits have been spread out among other systems just enough to avoid a frustrating wait for the perfect weapon, though there's still enough variation to make you sit up and pay attention to what you're wielding.

jpg

All's bell that ends bell.

The result is that you're a lot freer to experiment, especially in the early game - I found myself trying lots of different weapons for fun when before I might have stuck doggedly to just one weapon because it had the best stats. Gear itself also comes in at a faster clip thanks to the new crate system. Each time you level up or successfully complete a mission, you get a crate of a certain quality tier depending on how well you did. Each contains three items, of which one is always a weapon, meaning you accumulate new items at a much faster rate. It's a more generous and rewarding loot system in other words, always encouraging you to do just one more run. It's also a system entirely free from microtransactions, blessedly keeping the focus firmly on playing well rather than coughing up a few quid.

If there was one other thing from the original game that really needed to be addressed for the sequel, it was stability. While Vermintide was definitely improved by way of a number of patches, it's fair to say the game's initial launch was a bit wobbly. A number of bugs and stability issues made the game rather frustrating at points, so it's a relief that the second instalment is largely free from these issues. There are a couple of minor gripes, of course - at the time of writing the odd crash is not unheard of, but largely it's a game in rude health.

Vermintide 2 is a sequel done right. It's not overly ambitious or outlandish, instead choosing to build smartly on the solid foundations of its predecessor. New players will find a varied, exciting cooperative melee game - returning players will find the same well honed action, now free of many of the drawbacks of the original. With a passionate and - compared to other games - refreshingly friendly community behind it, this is a game I can see myself playing for a very long time indeed.
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
Playing a bit more, now with classes/chars I don't normally play (huntsman Kruber and, for the first time, Elf).
Huntsman Kruber with longbow and ult does a lot of damage to bosses, and even without his ult he does a lot if you hit the weak point. But his ult is bugged: It zooms you in and that zoom stays after sometimes... I had low fov for the entire rest of the run because of that. Not sure if a quick fov change back and forth in the options helps.
Halberd feels bad to use compared to the faster weapons though. I eat quite a few hits because of the slowness... And others clear hordes faster.
Boring class only good if you like his longbow. It's the strongest bow in the game I think, much stronger than elf bow. Bit hard to use... It's not as accurate... Best way to shoot is to hold RMB but fire (lmb) as the arrow is drawn all the way back but before he zooms in I think.
Some of his talents are also bugged. The lvl 5 ones don't seem to actually do anything at all.

Elf: Her long and swiftbows are surprisingly underwhelming compared to what I was imagining based off all the "ELF OP NERF PLZ!!!!" posts in the subreddit and steam forums. Sure she's accurate, but damage is meh. Good enough against specials, but haven't found a good anti-boss strategy with her yet. She doesn't have anything really dps-ey so far, but maybe once I get her repeater crossbow?

The important part of the Elf char though... Her greatsword is so much fun to use. It slashes fast without slowing you down much, and it's charged attack is a single stab that pierces armor a bit better. Nice for headshots.
It's actually just the length of a longsword and her thrust is more like a certain longsword thrust, but oh well. Games usually mess up swords. Greatswords are either too short but with too wide a blade, or massive buster sword bullshit. And they're always slow. Her GS feels just right for a good longsword haha. Sadly doesn't do much dmg to bosses.

Her greatsword regular combo is amazing for clearing hordes, esp. if they're coming at you in a line. Halberd sucks by comparison but is probably a bit better against bosses.

So right now I dunno what char to play, to be honest. Wizard is my best, even way underleveled I can contribute massively to the team and she can do everything well to amazingly well. She can melee hordes, beam staff shotgun hordes, beam single file hordes, beam-explode specials and bosses (with crit to boot), and her pyromancer ult can stagger bosses and kill specials and such. She can easily beam-explode storm vermin as well or dagger charge-attack them.
Only thing she's a bit less good against are chaos warriors (knights) unless she headshot-crits with beam-explosion or if using mace (don't, if you get caught in a horde while too hot to keep casting spells, you will get wrecked with the stupid mace).

I'd like to play the elf just for her "great"sword, but so far a biletroll showed me her limits with it's stupid regen (also got a horde, assassin and packmasters on top of that so that complicated matters... Troll threw me in a river and I instantly died. Elves can't survive in knee-deep water it seems)... Hope her later unlocks will help or her other careers... Otherwise I'd have to rely on my team and you know how that goes in pub matches sometimes. Wizard pyro/battlewiz and inquisitor bountyhunter careers don't rely on the team to fill any particular role (Bardin's tanking helps of course but imo isn't really necessary if you have a good wizard and witchhunter as they DPS everything to hell).

Always surprising to see how few people play the wizard well. She's such a monster if you're good with her. I've often carried the team with her in pub matches even against overwhelming odds.
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
7,347
Location
Lusitânia


I like these type of games, however my problem with then is the lack of maps to keep playing them. But since this game will get Mod Support. If that's the case I might pick it up once it gets cheaper.
 
Last edited:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom