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Was the Dishonored series good? Did System Shock 2 have good level design?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by JarlFrank, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Fun thing about that, Dishonored 1 and 2 are great examples of games that have quest markers in them, but you can switch them off and you won't even notice they were ever there.

    In Dishonored 1, I only needed to activate the marker twice, and that was in my own home base because one of my allies wanted to talk to me but I wasn't told where he was waiting for me.
    During the actual missions though... you can switch them off and perfectly play, and you won't even notice that quest markers were ever an option. The levels are just well-designed with a natural progression and your goals are usually easy enough to find. It's usually "assassinate X" or "try the non-lethal way of eliminating X", and the means of doing it are obvious enough through exploration of the environment and layout of the places.

    Dishonored 2 is even better at it, the level design in that one is just god-tier.

    Considering how 3-dimensional the level design is in that game, playing it with markers on would actually be more confusing than helpful in some levels.

    It's a perfect example of a game designed to be explored naturally, and it works well without those shitty dumbfuck markers. If your level design is good, markers are absolutely not needed.
     
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  2. Wesp5 Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Wesp5
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    Another recent game would be Metro: Exodus. Granted, it's no RPG, but it has huge maps with quest locations and you can navigate quite fine with the ingame realistic clipboard map...
     
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  3. Kem0sabe Arcane

    Kem0sabe
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    Dishonored 2 was shit tho, even worse than prey.
     
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  4. Yosharian Liturgist

    Yosharian
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    Yeah unfortunately Dishonored 2 is boring as fuck. I completely lost interest in it about 5 hours in

    Note that I was playing it with EVERYTHING turned off, and the hardest difficulty, and no powers. And... just boring as fuck.
     
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  5. Quillon Cipher

    Quillon
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    How did they manage that?

    Tho its strange either people find Arcane games boring as fuck or else treat them as 10/10s.
     
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  6. Zer0wing Arbiter

    Zer0wing
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    That's because they (the former group) want instant gratification either literally or instantly filling up codexers inner feature checkbox list and Arkane games are prone to not open to the player in the first hour of gameplay, if ever. Same thing with System Shock 2 or Thief 2 but no one remembers.
     
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  7. Yosharian Liturgist

    Yosharian
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    Except I said 5 hours, and it's closer to 6. I got bored because the story is shit (just like the first game) and the gameplay is piss-easy.

    Not because I ragequit after one hour.

    Prey is fantastic by comparison, despite also having some flaws.
     
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  8. Nano Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Nano
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    Don't make that comparison. Arkane's games are mediocre as fuck compared to Looking Glass's.
     
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  9. glass blackbird Learned Patron

    glass blackbird
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
    The second level of Thief 2 (after the tutorial mission) is the fucking warehouse, one of the best in the series
     
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  10. Zer0wing Arbiter

    Zer0wing
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    They weren't as loved and praised when released as they do now and the arguments were similar - too easy, bad writing, all while putted against the first installments of respective series.
     
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  11. Yosharian Liturgist

    Yosharian
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    Ok but those arguments were wrong, and Thief, Thief 2, System Shock 2, those games are masterpieces, whereas Dishonored 2 is not.

    It's irrelevant what some people said 'at the time'. Dishonored 2 is 3 years old. It is not a great game.

    Btw Dishonored 1 was pretty bad too
     
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  12. Nano Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Nano
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    What are you even talking about? It's a fact that people were lauding SS2 and Thief 2 when they were released. People were moaning about how they deserved to sell more when LGS closed just a few months later.
     
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  13. Kit Walker Totally Not Captain Shrek

    Kit Walker
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    Uh. I found Dark Messiah and CoC to be masterpieces and Dishonored to be meh. Dishonored 1/2 is a watered down thief game. Don't need that with the dark mod around.
     
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  14. Maggot Erudite Patron

    Maggot
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    I played pretty much the entirety of Prey except for one specific space segment with quest markers off. The devs actually put effort into designing the station so you can read signs or use a map to navigate inside and outside. Anyone that justifies quest marker cancer in a game because it's a 3D environment needs to ease up on the paint chips.
     
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  15. HoboForEternity In every buttons you press Patron

    HoboForEternity
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    Yeah. Alot of well designed 3d games sont need quest marker. Prey, ELEX are modern examples of them.
     
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  16. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Dishonored 2's level design is top notch throughout though. And if you go for a proper unseen + no kills run, it's even challenging.
     
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  17. Wesp5 Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Wesp5
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    This all comes down to personal taste. In my opinion Thief and Thief 2 were great, but SS2 was a boring bash fest with endless respawning enemies, breaking weapons and a level layout that was so obvious intended as a game maze and nothing like anyone would expect in space ships! And I read that they even copied the twist from SS1 which I never played though...
     
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  18. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    I wouldn't go as far as challenging,unless you mean no knock outs. Still it is pretty good game,but the first one was better. From this one you could get really nasty eye strain and headaches.
     
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  19. Maggot Erudite Patron

    Maggot
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    If you think SS2 was mazelike, you're more retarded than I thought.
     
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  20. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    Yeah,SS2 was pretty clear and logical,the only maze like level i remember was the engine part of the station. The rest was easy to navigate.
     
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  21. Yosharian Liturgist

    Yosharian
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    Yeah, I'll give you those points.
     
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  22. Nano Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Nano
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    [​IMG]

    Ah, now I understand Zer0wing's agenda.
     
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  23. Zer0wing Arbiter

    Zer0wing
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    Get out of here, stalker. Also yes, SS2 indeed, in fact, underwhelming compared to the first game and all meaningful criticism is legit.
     
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  24. Maggot Erudite Patron

    Maggot
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    Ironically those "criticisms" you agree with apply more to SS1 anyways aside from weapon degradation.
     
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  25. Zer0wing Arbiter

    Zer0wing
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    It really does not. At the very least SS1 has comprehensive mini map. Level design brilliance does not last 'til the end of SS2.
     
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