KickStarter Washington sues Kickstarted game creator who failed to deliver

[KoolNoodles]

Don't forget The Banner Saga, pretty decent game no?

 

[Hellraiser]

FTL is by far the best although it was somewhat lacking without the free expansion.

 

[Xor]

I don't see how this could be a bad thing. Developers going into kickstarter to raise funds should be held accountable to deliver the products they promise. If they aren't, then the inherent risk of investing in small projects that might amount to nothing will scare people away from investing.

 

[Kz3r0]

$4,329 Bacillus
$4,646 Cracked: A puzzle adventure game for touchscreen devices
$6,047 Safe Zone - Survive a Zombie-Infested Odyssey Across the USA
$6,525 The Arkh Project Support video games for queer people and people of color!
$7,805 Grey: The Lost Technology
$7,939 Erythia: Shattered Dreams
$10,093 Before You Close Your Eyes: A Game about Personality and Consequences
$11,073 Ron Paul: Road to REVOLution
$17,403 Grimoire : Heralds of the Winged Exemplar + $10,598 Grimoire Forever $6,805
$122,874 The Doom That Came To Atlantic City!
$343,415 Eyez™ by ZionEyez HD Video Recording Glasses for Facebook

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/kickstarter-watch.70894/page-86#post-2583635

For anyone curious here are theones of wich I kept track of, there are a lot more expecially in the first two years of Kicksterter, they are all pretty low as amount of money involved, tho, usually a few hundreds dollars.

 

[DragoFireheart]

I don't see how this could be a bad thing. Developers going into kickstarter to raise funds should be held accountable to deliver the products they promise. If they aren't, then the inherent risk of investing in small projects that might amount to nothing will scare people away from investing.

Wasteland 2 alone is scaring me away from further investing.

 

[tuluse]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/kickstarter-watch.70894/page-86#post-2583635

For anyone curious here are theones of wich I kept track of, there are a lot more expecially in the first two years of Kicksterter, they are all pretty low as amount of money involved, tho, usually a few hundreds dollars.

Which project was it where the woman said the Sun told her to stop working on the game?

 

[Xor]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/kickstarter-watch.70894/page-86#post-2583635

For anyone curious here are theones of wich I kept track of, there are a lot more expecially in the first two years of Kicksterter, they are all pretty low as amount of money involved, tho, usually a few hundreds dollars.

Which project was it where the woman said the Sun told her to stop working on the game?

 

[Abelian]

Which project was it where the woman said the Sun told her to stop working on the game?

Heh, I remembered this amusing bit of trivia:

In a 2011 interview, founding member Steve Huston claimed that soon after sunrise one morning in 1969 Baxter Twilight woke the band members in their communal home / practice facility. Having been up all night sitting in the front yard consuming acid, the roadie said that when the sun rose it turned into a giant talking head and told him the band's new name should be "Head East". After thinking on it briefly, the band liked the unusual nature of it and has kept the name.

 

[A user named cat]

Are you guys referring to the crazy naked lady? She's still making excuses in the updates and her idiotic backers are still supporting her bullshit.

Voice says: "The sun doesn't want you to publish Katalyka, because it wants to be almost exactly LIKE Katalyka, but it keep it all a secret. If you publish your game, it is going to let people in on too many secrets." (paraphrasing)

Nov 24 2013
Hopefully the last update before your copy arrives!


"It's wonderful to hear that your life is moving in a positive direction, Molly! Finishing your masterpiece will certainly add to your recent accomplishments. Congratulations."

Dr. Brian Moore
"A much appreciated update. After you finish the game you may want to write a book of your experiences. It would be interesting to read about your journey."

Biography
I am just a guy who got addicted to Kickstarter and likes to have fun. Join the project and you will see how much fun can be had backing a project.

lol

 

[Dexter]

There was already such a lawsuit and it was decided as I keep bringing this up. Project creators are responsible to deliver their reward tiers, if not they can either get lucky and nobody pushes charges or not and they might bankrupt themselves. In this case there apparently wasn't much to get: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-...ckstarter-made-an-average-guy-bankrupt-2013-1

That there was "no responsibility" for the project creators was a stupid myth as there was legal precedent and the KickStarters Terms are pretty clear.

I just wondered because I always thought that you don't buy a finished product through Kickstarter (with clear characteristics), but rather you invest money into the posibility of a product. But that's probably part of the problem: It is, as of now, unclear what rights Kickstarter backers really have when push comes to shove.
In the long run something like that was probably necessary...

It's really not, it's very simple. The project creator is obliged to fulfill the pledge rewards (in whatever condition or state they may be). If he wants people to "invest money into the possibility of a product" he doesn't need to offer rewards or can just offer "feel good ones" like "Thank you mail/letter" or stuff like that.

 

[A user named cat]

There was already such a lawsuit and it was decided as I keep bringing this up. Project creators are responsible to deliver their reward tiers, if not they can either get lucky and nobody pushes charges or not and they might bankrupt themselves. In this case there apparently wasn't much to get: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-...ckstarter-made-an-average-guy-bankrupt-2013-1

Neil Singh sounds like a scumbag and a complete moron on top of that.

"I'm convinced this was more stupidity than it was fraud," Singh says. "He just didn't think this through."

This coming from Singh, the Lawyer, who had no clue at all how the kickstarter model worked and thought it was actually an e-commerce site!

Crowdfund Insider: What did you know about Kickstarter before you contributed to Mr. Quest’s campaign? What was your experience with the platform, if any?

Neil Singh: The facts leading up to my purchasing that product are pretty much the way they are laid out in that article by Inc. I really didn’t know anything about Kickstarter. I went on the website and I don’t know how I found it… I have no memory, but you know, I was reading through different projects and how the web site worked so I did have an understanding of how it worked.

 

[SuicideBunny]

i'll laugh very long and hard if this will lead to kickstarters switching rewards from "get the game/thing/whatever" to "get a coupon for 100% price reduction for the game/thing/whatever"

hmmm... this might be the best time to whip up some inane prototype with game maker, start an indiegogo campaign, offer only coupons, postcards,credit inclusions, and design your own shit rewards and run off with the money.

I havent seen one decent game to come out thanks to kickstarter.

Because you only see news about KS scams and similiar, nobody cared about released stuff.
FTL? Also - Chivalry, Expedition: Conquistador and Xenonauts.

xenonauts kickstarter was for more assets and polish. the game was buyable and playable way before it (plus it still isn't out, so it does not count either way).

 

[Major_Blackhart]

What was Double Fine's big thing again?

 

[Gregz]

Paging Anita Sarkeesian

 

[Kz3r0]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/kickstarter-watch.70894/page-86#post-2583635

For anyone curious here are theones of wich I kept track of, there are a lot more expecially in the first two years of Kicksterter, they are all pretty low as amount of money involved, tho, usually a few hundreds dollars.

Which project was it where the woman said the Sun told her to stop working on the game?

I only add projects that are a clear case of cash grabbing or where backers are taking actions, otherwise half of Kickstarter should be on that list.
Cleve is there as punishment tho, if he delivers the thirty-first of May he will be removed.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Yeah, isn't she supposed to do a crap ton more of those vids?

 

[Azrael the cat]

Assuming a best case scenario for the plaintiffs, in which Kickstarter promises are taken as literal contracts, I still don't think they'd create any more liability than a publishing contract. I.e. you could get sued if you took the money and ran (or tried to cover it by producing a nominal work), or if you completely failed to deliver on an objective term (i.e. not an 'aim' or a 'goal'), but not for just making a shitty product, not meeting 'ambitions/goals/aims', and you could only sue for them taking too long (e.g. Doublefine splitting the game in two) if you could show you've suffered significant financial loss as a result.

I'd also expect that the promises would not be taken as literal contractual terms, but as something more like advertising (i.e. something where you could be sued for fraudulent misrepresentation, or if the product was objectively unfit for purpose, but not because you didn't actually manage to meet your promise of making 'a truly great gaming experience' or '60 hours of gameplay [*gameplay extended by grinding and awful pathfinding]').

 

[chestburster]

Assuming a best case scenario for the plaintiffs, in which Kickstarter promises are taken as literal contracts, I still don't think they'd create any more liability than a publishing contract. I.e. you could get sued if you took the money and ran (or tried to cover it by producing a nominal work), or if you completely failed to deliver on an objective term (i.e. not an 'aim' or a 'goal'), but not for just making a shitty product, not meeting 'ambitions/goals/aims', and you could only sue for them taking too long (e.g. Doublefine splitting the game in two) if you could show you've suffered significant financial loss as a result.

I was thinking that insofar as Kickstarter is so new, novel legal standards need to be implemented. Yes courts usually give a lot of leeway to business persons against their "reasonable effort" contract. But in those cases, the contract is usually formed on a one-on-one basis: the two parties know what they're getting into when they signed the contract, and the contract terms can be negotiated.

In Kickstarter's case, it is essentially an adhesion contract, on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. There is a certain degree of procedural unconscionability here. The courts might look more into substantive unconscionability: if the terms are too vague, etc.

Also, why is Kickstarter not regulated by a similar standard for SEC's public offering rule? For a public offering of stock, the company is offering equity, ownership in IP, voting rights, etc., which arguably are much better than the "products" (only possible products) Kickstarters promise to give. Why is public offering regulated so stringently while Kickstarters basically get a free pass? --I can understand why Occulus' Kickstarter backers are pissed off when they get nothing but CliffyB gets millions simply because he participated in a public/private offering of Occulus.

 

[Kz3r0]

Kickstarter is in a gray arae at the moment, basically it's patronage or a form of charity, pledges should be viewed more as offerings, if the jufge rules that Kickstarter is just as any other commercial ventures probably many things will change.

 

[Ninjerk]

Yeah, isn't she supposed to do a crap ton more of those vids?

Who cares?

Anyway, what ever happened to that transwhatever that decided not to release their Kickstarted comic book and [possibly] used the money for a sex change operation?

 

[Turjan]

Kickstarter is in a gray arae at the moment, basically it's patronage or a form of charity, pledges should be viewed more as offerings, if the jufge rules that Kickstarter is just as any other commercial ventures probably many things will change.

It's a bit more difficult with reward tiers that offer physical goodies. I think you can expect to be sued for those. I hope projects that offer these have a good idea how expensive these can be.

 

[Turjan]

Anyway, what ever happened to that transwhatever that decided not to release their Kickstarted comic book and [possibly] used the money for a sex change operation?

See post #34.

I don't think that obviously crazy people are in high danger of being sued. Most people will expect them to be broke.

 

[jcd]

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[Ninjerk]

Anyway, what ever happened to that transwhatever that decided not to release their Kickstarted comic book and [possibly] used the money for a sex change operation?

See post #34.

I don't think that obviously crazy people are in high danger of being sued. Most people will expect them to be broke.

I had to look up "Kickstarter meltdown" to find it. This is the one I'm talking about: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-pictures-for-children/posts

 

[Turjan]

Anyway, what ever happened to that transwhatever that decided not to release their Kickstarted comic book and [possibly] used the money for a sex change operation?

See post #34.

I don't think that obviously crazy people are in high danger of being sued. Most people will expect them to be broke.

I had to look up "Kickstarter meltdown" to find it. This is the one I'm talking about: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-pictures-for-children/posts

Well, at least I'm right on the "crazy" and "broke" parts.