Game News Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Now Live!

[Stinger]

Fallout New Vegas had a dev time of about 18 months but that had the gamebryo engine established for it already. I wouldn't expect WL2 to be as big as Vanilla New Vegas but I guess if FNV needed 18 months on an established engine then WL2 will probably need a lot more than that.

Fargo has said that these first 6 months of design will be treated like crunch time but I still hope he extends it if/when it becomes clear that he needs more time.

 

[Alex_Steel]

Fallout 2 was a straight sequel - same engine, same systems, same assets. Torment was an Infinity Engine DnD game - same engine, same systems.

Edit: re: modern PC? You think that it took them longer to make games 5-10 years ago because their computers were too slow?

The game will have many dated features. If you have better optimized software and more processing power, some good old tasks become faster. For example, an older rig with Photoshop CS3 would need much more time for the same image than a new one with CS6.

edit: non-facts I wrote

Fallout New Vegas had a dev time of about 18 months but that had the gamebryo engine established for it already. I wouldn't expect WL2 to be as big as Vanilla New Vegas but I guess if FNV needed 18 months on an established engine then WL2 will probably need a lot more than that.

As far as we know, they won't create an engine from scratch for W2. If NV was made in 18 months with an unknown(to Obsidian) engine, it means it can be done.

 

[Brother None]

Actually, at first I thought that he was getting the Onyx engine when he got Obsidian on-board, which would have been a smart move - a well polished RPG engine, isometric-friendly, with already built-in systems and tools. Btw, since you're close to them, any idea why they didn't go for it?

Never spoke about it in great detail, but we do know inXile wants their own programmers working on this, not outsource the engine works. Onyx not being a serious candidate makes me think it's not very well-suited for licensing, doesn't have the proper documentation or easy tools, or Obsidian never wanted to give access to source code, or couldn't promise proper support. Or all of the above, really.

Going for an engine that is made for licensed work and offers proper support through the development cycle would seem to me to be a lot smarter than asking to use a specialized in-house engine.

Name me a quality RPG that was made in 1.5 years.

That was my point though. Name me a project that is similar in having a professional budget, while not having professional "issues" that slow down projects (having to make builds to show publishers, constantly communicating with publishers, working on and in voice-acting and cinematics, high-level graphics work). I don't think we've seen anything like this ever, or at least not in a timeframe where it's comparable (comparing titles from 10 years ago in production scope to now just doesn't make sense). Indies work with less experience, less flexibility in time. Professionals work with publisher demands, interference and burden of communication (and Fargo's been pretty explicit in saying it was impossible to work with Bethesda for Hunted). This one is in a golden middle. Since we don't have any grounds for comparison, since Tim Cain too is talking about publisher-funded projects, I simply don't know if 18 months is a realistic timeframe. Fargo does.

It's a brave new world, really.

 

[Vault Dweller]

As far as we know, they won't create an engine from scratch for W2. If NV was made in 18 months with an unknown(to Obsidian) engine, it means it can be done.

How's that different from KOTOR 2?

There is a HUGE difference between an unknown but ready engine with all the systems and assets and an unknown engine that has nothing.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Recently I have seen a lot of good games developed in relatively short time, for example Legend of Grimrock, or practically everything from Frictional.

2-3 talented, dedicated guys who work full-time for 2 years, can develop a good game, even an RPG. Of course massive additional content in a RPG has some sort of linear relationship with development time, so it will probably have to be a rather content short game, not the level of BG2, Arcanum.

But I think it has become a lot easier than 10 years ago, because back then the programmers had to create a lot of things which are included in the basic game engine of today. An example would be the realistic physics in many indie games (Frictional), which are today almost trivial.

 

[commie]

I wish Fargo nothing but the best and I'm very excited about the game. It gives us hope and out of all KS projects, that's the one I'm interested in the most. My ONLY concern is the 18-month development time. It's just not enough and I hope that Fargo isn't planning to stick with it, because if he does, the quality will suffer, to say politely.

I've been following games for a long time and I can't think of a decent RPG (developed from scratch) that was made under 3 years. Games that can be done in 1.5 years or so are games like Kotor 2 - you have the engine, all systems (character, combat, inventory, maps, journal, etc), art assets, etc, but we all know what state Kotor 2 was shipped at.

You cannot comprehend a tight schedule because AoD has been in development across several ice ages.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Torchlight was made from scratch with a small team in 11 months and sold over a million copies.

 

[Alex_Steel]

How's that different from KOTOR 2?

There is a HUGE difference between an unknown but ready engine with all the systems and assets and an unknown engine that has nothing.

I'm not sure what you mean with the KOTOR 2 question. Maybe something about bugs?

I agree there is a huge difference. The bolded part is speculation though. We have no idea what engine they will use nor how ready it will be.

And to clarify, I also believe they will probably need some more time but I don't think they will surpass 2 years of development. Sounds overkill to me, especially when I hear that there are enough projects made in a short time.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Recently I have seen a lot of good games developed in relatively short time, for example Legend of Grimrock...

LoG is a cool game, but you can't really compare it to "full scale" RPGs. It's a multi-level dungeon without any quests, dialogues, trading, reactivity, travel system, different locations, pathfinding, tactical combat, world building, and anything else you'd expect from WL2.

Torchlight was made from scratch with a small team in 11 months and sold over a million copies.

That's nice, but how is it relevant to this conversation? Is Fargo making a simplistic Diablo clone?

You cannot comprehend a tight schedule because AoD has been in development across several ice ages.

Once again, for those who are just joining us or can't read:

Tim Cain: "With that said, the Vampire had been under development for three years. While that's not a long time for a role-playing game - Fallout had taken three and a half years to develop..."

 

[Infinitron]

Tim Cain: "With that said, the Vampire had been under development for three years. While that's not a long time for a role-playing game - Fallout had taken three and a half years to develop..."

n=1

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm not sure what you mean with the KOTOR 2 question.

From my earlier post:

"I've been following games for a long time and I can't think of a decent RPG (developed from scratch) that was made under 3 years. Games that can be done in 1.5 years or so are games like Kotor 2 - you have the engine, all systems (character, combat, inventory, maps, journal, etc), art assets, etc, but we all know what state Kotor 2 was shipped at."

I agree there is a huge difference. The bolded part is speculation though. We have no idea what engine they will use nor how ready it will be.

We do. Since it's not a straight sequel or game exactly the same as X, like Kotor 2 or Fallout NV or Fallout 2 or IWD games, whatever engine they will pick, it won't be ready at all. That's my point.

And to clarify, I also believe they will probably need some more time but I don't think they will surpass 2 years of development. Sounds overkill to me, especially when I hear that there are enough projects made in a short time.

Projects like WL2?

 

[Alex_Steel]

n=1

Tim Cai1: "With that said, the Vampire had bee1 u1der developme1t for three years. While that's 1ot a long time for a role-playi1g game - Fallout had take1 three a1d a half years to develop..."

 

[Vault Dweller]

That was my point though. Name me a project that is similar in having a professional budget, while not having professional "issues" that slow down projects (having to make builds to show publishers, constantly communicating with publishers, working on and in voice-acting and cinematics, high-level graphics work).

I don't see it as a factor, at least not as a factor that would explain such an ambitious schedule, but let's hope that you're right.

 

[Brother None]

That was my point though. Name me a project that is similar in having a professional budget, while not having professional "issues" that slow down projects (having to make builds to show publishers, constantly communicating with publishers, working on and in voice-acting and cinematics, high-level graphics work).

I don't see it as a factor, at least not as a factor that would explain such an ambitious schedule, but let's hope that you're right.

Yeah. I was kind of surprised when Fargo kept bringing it up too, but what he's saying makes no sense. He said specifically on budgets:

Fargo goes on to claim that publisher involvement can push up a project's budget by "at least 25 per cent. In some cases, 35 per cent, because sometimes they insist on taking over functions… where they would spend more than what we would, if it was our money. "There is so much that the publishers do that the developers get negatively affected by. As a developer, it's frustrating."


And has noted elsewhere that he feels having to build demos for publishers and setting meetings and making presentations to prove to them that you're doing your job is a major drag. I don't know how much that cuts off from the "3-year standard", but it's definitely a factor.

It's the "this exact model hasn't been done before" that makes me so wary of judging the schedule.

 

[Morkar Left]

I share VD's concern. I was skeptical too as soon as I heard that the development time will be that short. I won't say it's impossible but I think it will be a tough time for InXile and the scope of W2 won't probably not as big as we would like it. Still, I think Brian Fargo knows a bit about project shedules and that he hasn't pulled the time out of his ass (at least not without a joker in his sleeve). But only time will tell.

 

[Vault Dweller]

@ Brother None: I understand why it's frustrating and why it would end up costing more (and why feels that he can do more with 3 mil than with publishers' 5 mil), but I can't see how it's going to save him enough time to make the 18-month schedule work. Well, let's hope for the best.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Can the Codex do a follow-up interview with "Development Time" the key topic so we can stop this stupid fucking debate which nobody really has any inside information on?

 

[kazgar]

Can the Codex do a follow-up interview with "Development Time" the key topic so we can stop this stupid fucking debate which nobody really has any inside information on?

no more interviews, its only going to ruin the schedule! killing him with kindness.

(less jokingly, be somewhat cool, though would send the internet bonkers, if he came out and said "head down bum up on wasteland, too busy for updates, will surface in a month when there's something to talk about")

I assume all the kickstarter story interviews et al are going to be a bit of a drag in the short to medium term.

 

[commie]

Once again, for those who are just joining us or can't read:

Tim Cain: "With that said, the Vampire had been under development for three years. While that's not a long time for a role-playing game - Fallout had taken three and a half years to develop..."

Well Twitcher 2 took a little over 2 years from scratch and it had all the AAA trappings to add to it as well....So what were you saying?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Once again, for those who are just joining us or can't read:

Tim Cain: "With that said, the Vampire had been under development for three years. While that's not a long time for a role-playing game - Fallout had taken three and a half years to develop..."

Well Twitcher 2 took a little over 2 years from scratch and it had all the AAA trappings to add to it as well....So what were you saying?

It's not an RPG?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Can the Codex do a follow-up interview with "Development Time" the key topic so we can stop this stupid fucking debate which nobody really has any inside information on?

And what would you expect him to say? "There is nothing to worry about, citizens! Please return to your home!"? "You know what, you guys are right. We can't do it in 18 months, but..."?

 

[commie]

Once again, for those who are just joining us or can't read:

Tim Cain: "With that said, the Vampire had been under development for three years. While that's not a long time for a role-playing game - Fallout had taken three and a half years to develop..."

Well Twitcher 2 took a little over 2 years from scratch and it had all the AAA trappings to add to it as well....So what were you saying?

It's not an RPG?

Derp. Even if it wasn't, what's that got to do with it? Would development time be longer if it had TOEE combat mechanics to make it fit more with your personal approval as to what is a 'RPG'?

Regardless of the nature of the combat mechanics, the point is they made a whole world from scratch on a freshly built engine with all the C&C and quests and what have you, graphics, VO, rendered cutscenes etc. in a little over 2 years with a modestly sized team. Why couldn't Wasteland 2 which will lack all that time consuming AAA stuff be made in a similar time period? They have the storyboards and all the background stuff already. It's just a case of putting all that down. You think Fargo is starting from scratch here? He's been peddling his baby for years, despite all he was saying at the KS, you don't think he's crafty enough to have kept much of what he already wanted to do back to give the fans a feeling they will influence the game somewhat? He said as much in that last video interview where he basically said that he already has the ideas down and fan wishes are not a big priority(caused a bit of butthurt here). That's the talk of a man who has been living Wasteland 2 for a long time already.

It might be a few months late, maybe even 6 but no more than that. Archive this prediction and be ready to pay up.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

And what would you expect him to say??

Brian Fargo: "Tell Vince to shut the fuck up. He's annoying."

 

[FeelTheRads]

Derp. Even if it wasn't, what's that got to do with it? Would development time be longer if it had TOEE combat mechanics to make it fit more with your personal approval as to what is a 'RPG'?

Obviously. Also, the scope of W2 is supposed to be bigger than The Witcher.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Once again, for those who are just joining us or can't read:

Tim Cain: "With that said, the Vampire had been under development for three years. While that's not a long time for a role-playing game - Fallout had taken three and a half years to develop..."

Well Twitcher 2 took a little over 2 years from scratch and it had all the AAA trappings to add to it as well....So what were you saying?

Witcher 1 was released in October 2007. Witcher 2 was released in May 2011, exactly 18 months later. So what were you saying?

Edit: The game was already in alpha state in Sep 2009, two years before the release. Just think about it for a moment.