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Codex Interview Wasteland 2 RPG Codex Interview - Part 2: Michael A. Stackpole

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Crooked Bee, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. Gregz Arcane

    Gregz
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    Anyway, we've all been dicks on the internet at one time or another...maybe your mom just died or something...I don't know...no hard feelings.
     
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  2. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
  3. Spectacle Arcane

    Spectacle
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    The growth and accessibility of the internet also correlates pretty well with the time when personal computers stopped being primarily the domain of the educated class and became a common household appliance, as well as the introduction of the original Playstation, which was the first to bring games aimed at adults to TV screens in every home. These two factors explain why games these days rarely require much thinking.

    Adventure games are still being made in large quantities for their own target niche. I'm sure complete walkthroughs are available on the internet, and that all but the most hardcore players use them occasionally, but it obviously doesn't prevent them from buying and enjoying the adventures anyway.
     
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  4. thesisko Emissary

    thesisko
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    Cheats are easily accessible. The Casual difficulty is easily accessible. Let's not bother with gameplay since it can be easily skipped if the player is frustrated.

    I'm having trouble following your agenda here. Are you in fact saying that access to the internet has just exposed already existing flaws in game designs? Because you sure started off making it sound like a negative development.

    There's this thing called marketing. Ever heard of it?

    Right. The changes in design philosophy from Morrowind to Skyrim has nothing to do with changing focus from a PC-RPG developer to a mass-market console developer. It's because of spoilers - quick someone let Piranha Bytes in on this revelation! Have you considered applying for a job at Bethesda PR? Because your bullshit is so much better than anything Pete and Todd said to explain the continuous dumbing down of their games.


    Because downloading a .txt file took so much more effort.
     
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  5. thesisko Emissary

    thesisko
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    And I'm still missing that one line from you that would at least validate your own belief in this bullshit: "Adding puzzles to a game makes me less likely to buy it".
     
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  6. St. Toxic Arcane

    St. Toxic
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    Hey retard, these forums are for name-calling and meme circle-jerks. Go have your gay little discussion parties somewhere else.
     
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  7. Roderick Savant

    Roderick
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    Puzzle Nazis
     
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  8. CappenVarra phantasmist Patron

    CappenVarra
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    It's obvious we need "reverse DRM", i.e. the game refuses to start if it detects a working internet connection :P
     
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  9. thesisko Emissary

    thesisko
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    Guys, I've figured this out - Gregz is from a parallel universe.

    Our timeline
    Following the breakout success of their first big-budget hits on the XBox, "Knights of the Old Republic" and "Morrowind", Bioware and Bethesda decided to focus on making their future games more...accessible in order to expand the audience beyond the saturated PC RPG market. Complaints about confusing gameplay and navigation were addressed with a quest-compass and general handholding. Character and combat systems were stripped down and more action-oriented gameplay was implemented.

    Gregz' alternate timeline
    Although their latest games had been well-received by gamers and critics, the developers at Bioware and Betheda were receiving disturbing reports that players were using Internet spoilers to circumvent the brilliant designs they had implemented. Concerned with preserving the artistic intent of their works, Bioware and Bethesda began to radically simplify their future games so that they could ensure that their audience would properly experience these works of art without sullying their majesty by using the dreaded "Alt-Tab" combination.
     
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  10. Brother None inXile Entertainment Developer

    Brother None
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    This thread is so wonderfully Codex. A little bit of intelligence hidden somewhere underneath the piles of butthurt and retardation.
     
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  11. curry Arcane

    curry
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    Abducted by Jews. Send help!
    Ironically, that's a very butthurt thing to say :smug:
     
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  12. Brother None inXile Entertainment Developer

    Brother None
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    Of course. I'm just piling on until we reach the obligated butthurt quota.
     
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  13. darkpatriot Arcane

    darkpatriot
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    Uh oh. Bad news guys. I was just reading some news on another RPG news site and stumbled upon some startling evidence that this cancerous thing known as 'emotional engagement' may have infected our beloved RPG genre at an even deeper level than previously believed. I don't really know what to say(or feel for that matter) so I'll just post this here.

    http://nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60996

    The insidious implications of this are profound. They are even talking about trying to make us feel bad by having bad things happen to characters we can relate to. If a well respected representative of the CRPG genre such as Fallout is tainted at at such a basic level by feelings and emotions (and quite clearly the desire for a cinematic story driven experience) is it possible the way in which we enjoy the genre is all a lie? That we have been manipulated for so long that we have lost out ability to recognize it?

    I mean Tim Cain himself even mentioned the same dog example that is mentioned in this interview in his recent GDC talk as a positive thing and not a representation of the sort of thing that is destroying modern gaming.

    I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. I'm going to have to go lie down.
     
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  14. Awor Szurkrarz Arcane In My Safe Space

    Awor Szurkrarz
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    It doesn't write anything about making the players feel like hell for killing a hostile animal.

    I thought that most of players simply didn't have BBS access back then?
     
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  15. thesisko Emissary

    thesisko
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    Indeed, but they were filled with complaints about how they had made adventure games obsolete - and their users cursed the day they first got their modems - the last day they had been able to enjoy a good puzzle.
     
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  16. Gregz Arcane

    Gregz
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    I'm not trolling. If I knew a game had puzzles I'd still play it, provided the reviews were good enough.

    Portal had puzzles, and like all games I tried it based on the strength of its reviews...and the reviews were spot on, great game. Puzzles done correctly for today's environment, like those in Portal, are awesome fun...but password puzzles, door codes, mazes, riddles, sequence puzzles...all of the old-school cRPG trappings are now easily bypassed due to ease of information access. That is boring. That's the only point I've been trying to highlight...and it's so obvious I'm genuinely surprised at how resistant some people are to the idea. I can only think it's a defense mechanism, or denial.

    I remember trying to find game clues in the BBS days. There might have been 2 or 3 game-centric BBSs in my area code (you couldn't use long distance or Dad would raise hell). They were popular because you could download cracks and games there too, so you'd dial out and usually get a busy signal. So maybe you'd wait until 1am, finally get in, upload a file for an hour in order to get download credits on that BBS, spend 30 minutes navigating the convoluted custom file structure, and see half a dozen crappy 1-paragraph 'spoilers' of games you don't care about. But, in the extremely rare case you managed to get lucky you might see: Wasteland - "There's a toaster in the graveyard." Great...but where is the Onyx key? 3+ hours down the drain, back to the drawing board. So you gave up, and played the game straight come hell or high water (Because your gaming budget is shot for the next month, and this is all you've got to play).

    Compare that to today...Google returns 20+ separate results, huge FAQs, complete walkthroughs, console codes, screen caps with diagrams, youtube vids. It's a completely different world.

    Again, there's no debate here. Fast/easy access to copious amounts of well documented spoilers is a massive factor that significantly alters cRPG gameplay (as described upthread).

    Personally I think it's a problem worth trying to solve, you may disagree...that's fine.
     
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  17. thesisko Emissary

    thesisko
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    Sorry, finding it hard to follow your ramblings. You found puzzles boring or is it boring that you're able to bypass them? If it's the former then I've heard you can bypass life as well - must mean it's boring.

    You're really making no sense whatsoever. Any part of Portal, like most other games can be bypassed with zero effort. Usually you can just hit a key to bring up a console and type in a single command to give yourself infinite lives, skip to the next level or whatever. New Vegas, for instance, has a one-word command that teleports you to the next quest objective.

    As for the scenario you describe, it didn't sound like you had fun at all, wasting hours of your time trying to cheat on a game doesn't seem like something one would like to go back to.
     
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  18. Gregz Arcane

    Gregz
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    Not a problem...unless English is your first language.

    It's boring to know I have the option of bypassing them. Puzzles are fun, spoilage isn't. On the flip side, being frustrated for hours over a puzzle isn't fun either...until you solve it...then it's even more rewarding because of the sense of relief and/or accomplishment. So it's actually rather complicated. It's not A or B, A and B are two sides of the same coin.

    One possibility, the other is that you don't understand what I'm saying.

    OK, this might be where we're having the disconnect. It's a subtle point. I'll copypasta what I wrote earlier:

    Yep, and if you remember that word through natural gameplay, or wrote it down, it works. Immersion doesn't break, you feel 'clever' and move on. Most of the time that's not how it works though. DE:HR had lots of doorcodes, and the 'minigame' to crack them was tedious and boring...just like reading every PDA in every desk drawer in every building became. Lots of people alt-tabbed out to get those codes, including me. If the mini-game was engaging in the least (i.e. the designers did their jobs well), no alt-tab, no breaking immersion, fun game. Sadly this kind of shoddy design is the rule nowadays rather than the exception.
     
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  19. thesisko Emissary

    thesisko
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    It only alter the gameplay for those who prefer to skip it. Not a problem.
     
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  20. Awor Szurkrarz Arcane In My Safe Space

    Awor Szurkrarz
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    They could add a walkthrough for spoilerfags.
     
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  21. Gregz Arcane

    Gregz
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    That pretty much hits the nail on the head, but are Codexers 'real fans'?

    Poll: Do you use Spoilers/Walkthroughs/FAQs to progress through a game?

    Most people appear to be choosing:

    - Only when I'm frustrated or bored and want to move on.

    That indicates walkthroughs have become an integral part of gaming for most players, which is a seachange from how it was in the 80s. felipepepe gives a good description of how it was then vs. how it is now.
     
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  22. thesisko Emissary

    thesisko
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    The reason that vote is dominant has nothing to with walkthroughs or the Internet. It's the only sane option. You're basically asking:

    Which of these two games would you prefer to play?
    1. "A game that entertains me"
    2. "A game that frustrates and bores me"

    And if you read the replies, no one shares your absurd opinion that walkthroughs "ruin" the game for them. In fact, most people find them helpful.
     
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  23. Beautiful Clown Painting Arcane

    Beautiful Clown Painting
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  24. St. Toxic Arcane

    St. Toxic
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    Prosper needs to be lead designer. NAOW!!! :x
     
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  25. TwinkieGorilla does a good job. Patron

    TwinkieGorilla
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    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
    Whoa. Skyway taught you how to future, didn't he?
     
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