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Game News We Stripped Stuff Because Origins "Was Busted"

Quilty

Magister
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,411
I'm still astonished by this bit: "I still firmly believe that RPGs do need to be more accessible to new players. Not dumbed down, not "consolized", not diminished, but made less imposing and less terrifying to new players."

What the fuck is so terrifying about playing an RPG?

JESUS CHRIST

:x
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
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Insert clever insult here
Xor said:
But DAO wasn't even a very good RPG. Doesn't make much sense to be mad over a bad sequel to a bad game.

Brent Knowles himself has stated that he values his work in BG2 and the expansions to NWN higher than what he did with DA:O - so it's obvious that higher-up were mucking up the design and gameplay in a way he didn't like. Shoot the suits and Knowles would've made BG3/NWN3 in Thedas? While not my dream, I could've lived with that.

And Laidlaw is a retarded shill but since most of Biodrones are retards, he fits well in there.

From Retards, For Retards - BIOWARE
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
10,872
Divinity: Original Sin
Re: Mike Laidlaw: We Stripped Stuff Because Origins

Laid Low said:
we stripped some stuff out of DA becuase it was busted.
Bioware in a nutshell. Why fix gameplay when you can just rip it out entirely?

Next thing, they'll realize their cutscenes suck as well, and they take that out, and we'll be left with a silent black screen when we play watch their games.
 

Ermm

Erudite
Joined
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Location
Delta Quadrant
Basically he says that Dragon Age 2 is not more accessible, but not dumbed down. We all know what more accessible, so that DOES....NOT.....COMPUTE.......
 

Quilty

Magister
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,411
I'm really baffled by all this shit about games being inaccessible and thus terrifying.

Ever since I started playing games I've been attracted to those with more complex mechanics. Sure, I guess I could replay Diablo 2 seven hundred times like a retard, but I'd rather do another run through BG2 since it actually sometimes forces me to think. Sure, I could play Need for Speed but this Silent Hunter game over here actually forces me to use strategy, develop a plan and execute it in a more or less precise way.

I don't want to be able to jump into every game and be instantly proficient at it. Sometimes instagratification is fine (I'm a huge fan of games like Just Cause 2 for this reason), but sometimes I want to feel stumped by a game that showers me in hundreds of obscure terms, be it commands for flying a Spitfire or the details of a school of spells in an RPG. I want to test it, pick it apart, learn its rules, adjust when I make mistakes, explore its mechanics.

No woman can cause my cock to harden like a steep, merciless learning curve can. I'm sure some of you feel the same.
 

torpid

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
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Location
Isma's Grove
Rasputin said:
Basically he says that Dragon Age 2 is not more accessible, but not dumbed down. We all know what more accessible, so that DOES....NOT.....COMPUTE.......

In theory you can make a game more accessible without dumbing it down, by for example working on a game's interface to make it less cumbersome. But obviously, for Bioware accessibility isn't about explaining the stats or making the interface easier to use, it's about removing things wholesale.

Quilty said:
No woman can cause my cock to harden like a steep, merciless learning curve can.

Male21.jpg
 

Disconnected

Scholar
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
609
Quilty said:
I'm really baffled by all this shit about games being inaccessible and thus terrifying.

I suspect he is too. At least, that would explain why he responds to this perceived problem with a pile of words that don't have any substance.

No woman can cause my cock to harden like a steep, merciless learning curve can. I'm sure some of you feel the same.

Some, probably. But I doubt very many. It does happen, but it exceptionally rare that a game can hold my interest while being so indecipherable that I don't know how it works within an hour and/or after reading the documentation. Being opaque isn't a virtue, it's a critical failure to waste my time in an entertaining fashion.

Back in the day when Shadow of The Horned Rat came out, it shipped with a little manual that contained not only an exact explanation of how the game mechanics worked, but a complete breakdown of the properties of every (non-secret) playing piece. The result was I didn't spend as much as a second wondering how the game worked, I knew everything there was to know about it before I'd even run it once.

When DA:O came out I was so annoyed by the opacity of the mechanics and total absence of documentation, that I probably spent about an hour complaining about it online. And this is a game that has pretty much the same degree of complexity as SoTHR.

Point being: he's not wrong that there is a problem. He's just doesn't appear to understand the problem isn't complexity, but lack of transparency.

He's also not the only one. The entire industry seems plagued by tossers who're perpetually mystified that older and far more complex game than they make caused no confusion or aggravation, when theirs do. Eternally oblivious to the single, obvious difference that those older, more complex games were fully documented, while theirs aren't in the slightest.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
So if you've just tuned in for the show here's a short summary of this thread:


When you dumb down the last bits out of your game and start finding excuses it enrages Codex because you are dumbing down the game.

But when you dumb down the last bits out of the game and say that you are actually making it more complex by doing this (even if it makes no sense) - you are making a legendary RPG, worthy of every elite Codexer, like TW2.


Here's a million dollar question:
What does Bioware do wrong?

In case you are having a problem with the answer here's a bonus tip
not shit games
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
10,872
Divinity: Original Sin
MetalCraze said:
When you dumb down the last bits out of your game and start finding excuses it enrages Codex because you are dumbing down the game.
Who is this "Codex" person you speak of?
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
Skyway has entered full retardo mode now. No longer is he here to discuss games: Skyway is here only to rage at you, us, me, the world, and anyone that hasn't played KotoR 7 times.
 

Kaanyrvhok

Arbiter
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
1,096
Quilty said:
No woman can cause my cock to harden like a steep, merciless learning curve can. I'm sure some of you feel the same.

Take me to your planet where women are less complicated than videogames.
 

deus101

Never LET ME into a tattoo parlor!
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
2,059
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2
Betsheda attleast dont think a DIY adventure is an RPG.
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
10,872
Divinity: Original Sin
Re: Mike Laidlaw: We Stripped Stuff Because Origins

DraQ said:
I thought that was Bethesda.
Nah, Bethesda rip out features even when they work perfectly well.
 

sgc_meltdown

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
6,000
Re: Mike Laidlaw: We Stripped Stuff Because Origins

bro by features I think you mean to say needless complexity
 

DraQ

Arcane
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Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Disconnected said:
Point being: he's not wrong that there is a problem. He's just doesn't appear to understand the problem isn't complexity, but lack of transparency.

He's also not the only one. The entire industry seems plagued by tossers who're perpetually mystified that older and far more complex game than they make caused no confusion or aggravation, when theirs do. Eternally oblivious to the single, obvious difference that those older, more complex games were fully documented, while theirs aren't in the slightest.

I can agree, but lack of transparency can work too, as long as the mechanics is built, then explicitly said to be intuitive.

You don't need to know exact math behind the scenes (and can therefore make it arbitrarily complex), nor crutches of damage values and HP counts if hitting someone in unprotected neck with a huge battleaxe results in expectable beheading and death.

Some modern FPS games (excluding CoDs and clones) can be pretty complex in terms of mechanics (damage calculations, accuracy, the way more scifi-sh weapons work, etc.), yet they aren't confusing.
 

Hegel

Arcane
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
3,274
Storyfag said:
DragoFireheart said:
Skyway is here only to rage at you, us, me, the world, and anyone that hasn't played KotoR 7 times.

But... but I played KotOR 7 times and he raged against me anyway!
Did you like it? KotOR I mean, did you enjoy the subtle romance thrown at you?
 

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