What did you hate about Dragon Age: Origins?

[Cross]

Anyway I want to conclude by saying that Final Fantasy 12 - a RTwP JRPG that came out same year as DAO and coincidentally featured options for scripting companions during combat - not only did the companion scripts well enough but it did everything else better: better combat with a wider array of choices that stem from FF12s increased cast of available classes via its original license board system.

It also had much better encounter design and much better itemization.

Why do I bring up FF12 well because DA: Origins is a sub-par RPG that received praise it did not merit from posters here specifically because those posters were too bigoted to play non-Western games.

I don't even like Dragon Age: Origins, but as an RTwP game it is infinitely superior to Final Fantasy 12. For starters, it supports a mouse, so it's actually possible to order multiple characters to move and freely target AoE abilities, something that is impossible to do in FF12 with its gamepad interface.

Even DA:O's meagre selection of spells is more varied and interesting than FF12's. For instance, there are spells in DA:O that create different kinds of environmental hazards, like Grease, Blizzard, the Glyph line of spells, etc. FF12 doesn't even have a single spell like that.

Final Fantasy 12 - a RTwP JRPG that came out same year as DAO

FF12 came out 3 years before DA:O. Are you sure you didn't accidentally hit your head on your way to the jrpg subforum (which would also explain how you arrived here)?

 

[Lhynn]

DA:O story isnt bad. Find something else to criticize.

 

[Sranchammer]

DA:O story isnt bad. Find something else to criticize.

I played through it a few months ago and have already forgot what it was about.

 

[Delterius]

DA:O story isnt bad. Find something else to criticize.

I played through it a few months ago and have already forgot what it was about.

you may want to see a doctor about that

 

[Ventidius]

RPG CnC is simply campaign and quest branching that depends on your character or party build. This can be done by both offering a diverse suite of mechanics that offers you different ways of solving a quest depending on the build you chose through engine interactivity, but it can also be done through abstractions like skill and dialogue checks that are only open to some builds.

The paradigmatic case for me is New Vegas. In that game it was your choices in build that determined the pool of options available to you in a quest. These options, in turn, could consist of both mechanical approaches and passing checks. It had both a diversified and interactive engine inherited from Morrowind that was deployed in service of the traditional Black Isle CnC design style from Fallout along with some more traditional skill and dialogue checks in order to fill in the blanks where the engine was not robust enough. Such checks are a necessity where the engine is not robust enough to simulate every action in mechanical form, while still providing the diversity of options expected from an RPG.

Also, AoD definetely has RPG CnC, in that game your campaign and quest strategies are very much limited by the build you are running, perhaps more than in any other game in fact. The thing is, most of AoD's options are presented in abstract rather than mechanical form (with the exception of combat options), especially through the dialogue system. But this does not make it less of an RPG.

Even DAO has some CnC tied to the charsystem(especially race), but not that much really. If you want a game with CnC almost entirely unrelated to the charsystem, and thus non-RPG, try Witcher 3. In that game most branching depends on choices made on the spot with the Axii sign being the only customizable element that can affect it, and even that does not make much of a difference.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Anyway I want to conclude by saying that Final Fantasy 12 - a RTwP JRPG that came out same year as DAO and coincidentally featured options for scripting companions during combat - not only did the companion scripts well enough but it did everything else better: better combat with a wider array of choices that stem from FF12s increased cast of available classes via its original license

Final Fantasy 12 came out three years before Dragon Age Origins, it's how Origins was able to rip that games Gambits system off.

 

[TedNugent]

Never played it

 

[DemonKing]

The worst thing about DA:O was some of the repetitive encounters - apart from that it was extremely solid and you could see where the years of development had gone.

Conversely, DA2 was horrid - the only redeeming feature was some of the NPC companions were reasonably well developed (although that's probably the last thing I look for in a game).

DAI was a bit better but suffered too much by trying to replicate Skyrim and were at a loss on how to fill a vast world with anything other than quests to gather 10 of a particular type of herb..

 

[Black]

That it won Codex RPGOTY.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I'd rather have five or six party members instead of four, magic needed better balance, but overall good game. I even liked the Deep Roads, given how much the game hyped up this dangerous underground place full of horrors, then you see it has it's own world map and multiple locations to visit. That was cool. That was also the last Bioware game where build choice and character customization actually mattered, and the system had some depth to it.

I still love the ending. Basically you get to Loghain and you find out he's been fighting for the same cause as you, just with completely different methods. Maybe he took power opportunistically, but he still wanted to protect Ferelden. You beat him in the final battle and he submits to your judgement. Riordan is pragmatic and suggests you make him a Gray Warden, in order to take the hit from the Arch Fiend and die in your place. Loghain is even cool with it because it means he will be remembered as a hero who saved the kingdom and not a usurper. It seemed like a good idea.

But then Alistair loses his shit. He hates Loghain and believes completely in the nobility of the wardens. At that point in the game I totally saw Alistair as my bro. He had stuck by me through all the crap and been a faithful and loyal companion, suffering endless abuse and tanking through all the toughest mobs. I felt like I owed him a debt and respected his opinion. So when he declared, "Being a Gray Warden is an honor, not a punishment! I will not call this man my brother!" I realized, shit, he was right. I was really moved by this. I hadn't looked at it that way before but I realized Alistair was completely correct. The game persuaded me to change my mind. Loghain fucked Alistair hard and put him through a ton of shit. Maybe it wasn't the pragmatic thing to do, but a bro is a bro, so I cut that fucker's head off.

I just thought that was a pretty cool way to end the game, and even though it doesn't really matter in the sequels or the game's official ending, it's been pretty rare for any game to actually get me that involved in the characters and the story enough to give a shit like that. So way to go Bioware. Since then of course they've become pozzed up the ass, and every character sucks harder than the next, but I'll always remember killing Loghain out of loyalty and spite.

 

[kamen22]

I only played it because I saw it in a bargain bin for a few $, I disliked pretty much everything about me but aside from the boring combat and linear gameplay what really grated on me was the stupidity of the dialogue.

 

[DemonKing]

I'll always remember killing Loghain out of loyalty and spite.

Ha - I recruited him in an instant and chopped off Alistair's head mainly on the basis that they used the same whiney voice actor from KOTOR. As a human noble I then married the queen and ruled wisely and justly for all.

Come to think of it, the Loghain trial and the many different ways it could play out was pretty good.

 

[Jacob]

^There are two kinds of RPG players...

 

[Falksi]

Ah Origins. Still one of my fave modern RPGs if I'm honest.

Worse thing about it was probably the Warrior skills, they were just boring. Mage & duel wield Rogue were great tho.

But that said I still didn't hate anything about it. Dound the combat a bit fiddly when firs playing, & enemies/setting a bit generic but they were minor gripes.

Would still absolutely love to see a proper sequel to it.

 

[mbv123]

DA:O story isnt bad. Find something else to criticize.

It's not "bad", it's not very good either. It's just very generic and filled with every fantasy trope you could think of.

 

[Anomander Rake]

is there a mod to disable all the filler quest inside dragon age inquisition?

 

[aweigh]

Ventidius

i like to use the CYOA books as an example of what isn't C&C but is considered to be so by Codexers, I've always found it a good go-to in arguments in the past because if I bring up the true video gaming root of the modern RPGs so-called C&C (which is Adventure Games and Text Adventures) they then seize that as a weak spot to pick at by citing obsolescence and such.

another point of contention I hold with the normie-Codexers view of C&C is that it is automatically a feature that overrides everything else in importance such as some here defending a mechanically simple game simply because "at least it has some c&C".

I find that type of thinking incoherent because it tries to establish that "C&C" (utterly meaningless term) is more important than having good writing or good design or good mechanical systems. Secondly there are already numerous games that are all about that: adventure games. The reason we prefer RPGs over adventure games (or a CYOA system) is because the RPG marries together many other different systems.

Also a lot of codexers simply cant think of how c&c exists if there is no dialog which is unbelievable to me as the most important "C&C" is done outside of dialog via emergent gameplay achieved through different "builds" that serve as tools for achieving variety in the gameplay loop. (This usually/traditionally revolves around combat or around picking locks or investigation and exploration).

Most codexers only think of branching story states or mutually exclusive content that isnt tied to builds to be c&c whereas I find it is just "adventure gaming".

Finally I think c&c which is tied to tangible gamaplay mechanics (builds, party management, skill usage, enviroment interaction, methods of navigation, etc) tends to NOT deprecate as fast as branching story states or mutually-exclusive conflict resolution.

After all it doesnt matter how many different ways a scenario can play out if you dont dictate the rules yourself through active game play: which is why your Witcher 3 example is such a good one. It may have different permutations but they are all essentially devoid of player agency: it is merely different pages from a CYOA R.L. Stein book.

Another exampe that springs to mind is Wasteland 2s early-game choice between two mutually-exclusive scenario (an amazing feat of banality). That is another choice devoid of player agency. Witcher 3 (and games ike it) are basically full of that same type of choice except throughout the entire game.

 

[curry]

The worst part has to be the amount of filler quests and trash mobs which makes the gameplay so tedious.

 

[Delterius]

I disliked pretty much everything about me

you need some self love, kamen

 

[Ventidius]

Also a lot of codexers simply cant think of how c&c exists if there is no dialog

This is a fallacious position, no doubt. But that said, I do think you could have an RPG with CnC based largely on dialogue options and skill checks - like AoD. This is the abstract approach I was talking about above, however...

Finally I think c&c which is tied to tangible gamaplay mechanics (builds, party management, skill usage, enviroment interaction, methods of navigation, etc) tends to NOT deprecate as fast as branching story states or mutually-exclusive conflict resolution.

This is definitely true, CnC is simply more engaging, at least to RPG fans as opposed to adventure fans, when it takes the form of diverse mechanical options over that of dialogues/checks. This is the reason why my favorite - and IMO the best - CnC RPG is New Vegas instead of something like Age of Decadence, even though I recognize the latter as an RPG. New Vegas was really a hybrid, it had both many mechanical options and plenty of skill checks and dialogue branching, however, of all CnC RPGs New Vegas arguably had the greatest amount of mechanical and engine interactivity, courtesy of the highly interactive Morrowind engine that often gets deprecated in the Codex because they don't really appreciate this factor. Ironically, Codexers often complain about the Morrowind engine and its supposed limitations precisely in the context of New Vegas when arguably much of what sets NV apart from the run of the mill of "storyfag" games and makes it special is that very engine interactivity it inherited from Morrowind.

Furthermore, as you mentioned, for dialogue branching to be effective as a gameplay component it requires an engaging story, characters, and world, in other words, immersion. New Vegas had this in spades, the world-building, the characters, the atmosphere, lore, art direction(difference from Oblivion is night and day), the dialogues, even the main narrative, everything was at least competent and at best among the cream of crop of RPGs: Dead Money is, pound by pound, on the same level as a showcase of Avellone's writing as PST as far as I am concerned. And that is the reason I care about dialogue branching in a game like New Vegas, while it doesn't really do anything for me in most other games.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

The game also had the best banters:

*After having sex with Morrigan.*

Oghren: "So, you and the Gray Warden huh? Eh heh heh heh!"
Morrigan: "Are you referring to Alistair?"
Oghren: "Him? Does he even like girls?"
Morrigan: "I suppose it remains to be seen."

 

[theSavant]

DA:O story isnt bad. Find something else to criticize.

I played through it a few months ago and have already forgot what it was about.

you may want to see a doctor about that

No, he's right. A few months after I played the game I've also forgotten almost everything. I knew there were some annoying long levels, and I had to do them, but I couldn't remember why. And then the game was somehow finished. I'd have to google what it was all about...

 

[Delterius]

DA:O story isnt bad. Find something else to criticize.

I played through it a few months ago and have already forgot what it was about.

you may want to see a doctor about that

No, he's right. A few months after I played the game I've also forgotten almost everything.

The point being that DA:O's story is so generic and ubiquitous that edgy attempts to say 'i don't even know what its about anymore' are actually self sabotaging.

 

[Anomander Rake]

To be honest the only thing I remember about the story is the sacrifice of a grey warden to catch the archdragon (dunno if it's the right name) but I could not remember even the worst part of DA:O even if I played it around 8-9 times: I'm referring to a mod I've recently seen to skip an annoying part of the game (a place starting with F -dunno the name- that is really annoying to play).

The even cuter part is that I even remembered later that day that I actually used that mod, but I don't remember why I found the section so tedious.

 

[eggdogg]

DA:O sits in a nice place between old school masters and new school crap. I wish there was more character development/options. Its not a bad game though. DA2 is terrible and DA:I is a holocaust of creativity.