What is this kid's problem?

[Darth Roxor]

Actually, yes, you're supposed to throw out the rules when they get in the way of telling a good story.

This is the kind of thinking that gave us Numenera. Please abandon this kind of thinking.

 

[Avian Mosquito]

The first half has already been addressed by Darth Roxor, so I'll just address the second half.

Actually, yes, you're supposed to throw out the rules when they get in the way of telling a good story.

Just admit you're a bad GM and accept the kid boned your game just as easily as he's boning your daughter while you're busy watching and replying to this thread.

I'm not a bad GM, I just expect the player to takes things seriously enough that the campaign will last considerably longer than filling out their character sheet. A player who nearly gets the party TPK'd in the first five minutes of play is either more stupid or more assholic than I plan to tolerate. Usually both.

Second, I say with 100% certainty that my daughter, who I should mention is 13 (so attacking me by making accusatory statements about her sexual habits is pretty fucking tasteless), is not sleeping with this boy. See, she does have a few requirements. First, while he doesn't need to be at the pinnacle of physical conditioning, he does need to be at least fit-ish. Second, while he doesn't need to be gorgeous, he does need to look okay. Third, while he doesn't need to be a genius, he has to be smart. Fourth, while he doesn't need to be angelic, there are some personality flaws she won't tolerate in a boyfriend. FIfth, there can't be a big age gap. He violates all five of those, and also happens to be her girlfriend's brother on top of all that.

There's no way she'd want to sleep with a fat, ugly, stupid jackass three years older than her. Even if she did, she still wouldn't because that would really piss off his sister, a person I have reason to believe she IS sleeping with. This is a pretty idiotic assumption. She's bringing over a boy, must be her boyfriend, right? Except he's not the first person she's brought over for our game, or even the first one that's still there. She's also brought over another boy she's not interested in, her girlfriend, and her boyfriend. Which are, I should mention, the other three players in the game.

This is the kind of thinking that gave us Numenera. Please abandon this kind of thinking.

Damn straight.

 

[Grimwulf]

Ok. Avian Mosquito, don't take it as an offence or smth (I'm a bit drunk, since it's holiday and all that). But, err...

1. Your daughter is 13 year old.
2. She has a girlfriend. She actually sleeps with her.
3. You are totally ok with that, but you can't stand a 16-year old kid, who is brother of your daughter's girlfriend. Like lover.
4. Also, your daughters girlfriend is jealous.
5. You play self-designed pnp with all those kids. They are all 13-16 years, I presume.
6. You are pissed off cause of childish behavior of one of the players.

Ok. If I got everything right, then:
- Consider yourself lucky you only have one difficult player in your game (they are fucking kids, for fucks sake);
- Your daughter is a 13-year old lesbian! I mean, FUCK, why do you even care about that kid and your game?
- ... I forgot what else I wanted to say. This is a strange world. Happy New Year?

Edit: If that kid succeeded at bribing officials, being just a 16-year-old, then he's got russian blood in his veins.

 

[laclongquan]

Hot incest lesbian ahoy is my impression!

 

[nikolokolus]

That is about six kinds of stupid. Not hyperbole.



"Why don't you just throw out the rulebook just to be unfair to the players, then let one retard fuck the whole party just to be even more unfair to the other players who aren't him?"

Even funnier, you then accuse ME of railroading after you say this stupid shit.

Also, love how you're struggling with singular and plural case. There is ONE murder hobo, and four players actually interested in some goddamn roleplaying.



There are no rails. Just a destination and a supply of resources, not that you know what the difference is. You can't even tell the difference between the plural and singular case of the word "player", since you lumped the entire rest of the party in with the one person actively working against their interests for the second time now.



No, it doesn't, you moron.

Actually my comment was a two-parter, the first was addressed directly at your situation and the second was more general - me wondering at this kind of game, not your specific game because I wasn't there and didn't see how it all unfolded. But you seem like a really reasonable fellow and completely calm. Have fun.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Hot incest lesbian ahoy is my impression!

This. Thread is now about this. MOAR PLZ.

 

[Phage]

The few times I tried to get a campaign running I would have loved to have people who take the game seriously enough to try to push the boundaries. I had to deal with people who insisted I let them play as Dinosaurs or just wouldn't RP or put anything into the game whatsoever - basically treating it like a video game. Needless to say I gave up pretty quickly.

 

[Avian Mosquito]

Ok. Avian Mosquito, don't take it as an offence or smth (I'm a bit drunk, since it's holiday and all that). But, err...

Oh, don't worry. It's hard to offend me if you're not trying to.

1. Your daughter is 13 year old.

And looks like she's 10 or 11. But go on.

2. She has a girlfriend. She actually sleeps with her.

I think. I don't really know. But when I was her age (granted, that was 1998) that's part of what the word "girlfriend" meant.

3. You are totally ok with that, but you can't stand a 16-year old kid, who is brother of your daughter's girlfriend. Like lover.

He's three years older than her, so no I'm not okay with the idea of him sleeping with her. If you had a thirteen year old, would you want a sixteen year old sleeping with her? Well, I don't. And I'm glad that at least that I don't have to worry about that.

4. Also, your daughters girlfriend is jealous.

No idea where this is coming from.

5. You play self-designed pnp with all those kids. They are all 13-16 years, I presume.

12-16, actually. Her boyfriend is a year younger than her.

6. You are pissed off cause of childish behavior of one of the players.

This isn't childish. Children do bad things out of ignorance. This kid knows what he's doing.

Ok. If I got everything right, then:
- Consider yourself lucky you only have one difficult player in your game (they are fucking kids, for fucks sake);
- Your daughter is a 13-year old lesbian! I mean, FUCK, why do you even care about that kid and your game?
- ... I forgot what else I wanted to say. This is a strange world. Happy New Year?

- Age isn't an excuse. It would be an excuse for ignorance, but not malice. And even if this was just ignorance, he's the oldest of the five *and* the only one being a jackass.
- I care because I took the time to set it up, and since we had a first timer I made the goal simple, and easy to find multiple approaches to. "You fall asleep in Seattle and wake up in an afterlife, notably the wrong afterlife and all in close proximity for some reason, with no idea what happened to you. Find out more about where you are, get yourself established, and then try to find out what happened." And he managed to screw that up, almost screwed it up for the rest of the party too,
-Happens the the best of us, especially when drinking. It's part of why I stopped drinking, because of the memory issues. Too many incidents where I didn't even remember WHY somebody was pissed at me.

Hot incest lesbian ahoy is my impression!

For some reason when I read this, "Hi Hi Hi" just started playing in my head. I think that's my crazy alarm going off.

Actually my comment was a two-parter, the first was addressed directly at your situation and the second was more general - me wondering at this kind of game, not your specific game because I wasn't there and didn't see how it all unfolded. But you seem like a really reasonable fellow and completely calm. Have fun.

I can be crass and insulting to crass and insulting people without being angry, thank you very much.

This. Thread is now about this. MOAR PLZ.

Oh, Hi Hi Hi is playing again. Good to see my crazy alarm still works.

The few times I tried to get a campaign running I would have loved to have people who take the game seriously enough to try to push the boundaries. I had to deal with people who insisted I let them play as Dinosaurs or just wouldn't RP or put anything into the game whatsoever - basically treating it like a video game. Needless to say I gave up pretty quickly.

You have my pity.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The few times I tried to get a campaign running I would have loved to have people who take the game seriously enough to try to push the boundaries. I had to deal with people who insisted I let them play as Dinosaurs or just wouldn't RP or put anything into the game whatsoever - basically treating it like a video game. Needless to say I gave up pretty quickly.

Maybe they just wanted to be a dragon?

 

[TheGreatOne]

Your daughters are acting like degenerates but your biggest parental concern is that their friend is owning you at the game you failed to design?

I'm not a bad GM

As the GM, it's your job to adjust reward incentives so that the players are more likely to go in the direction of the story you'd like to tell.

 

[DraQ]

A punishment must hurt the *player* to be effective.

If it's killing the character off that is your punishment, you must make the reroll a significant setback. I don't know your system, but no level adjustment to match the party is a must. If guy's character is going to be a dead weight - that's his problem.
Also, try to enlist other players' help.

A player who nearly gets the party TPK'd in the first five minutes of play is either more stupid or more assholic than I plan to tolerate. Usually both.

A threat of TPK is actually a nice stick here. Send the message that "this asshole will get you all killed" clearly enough, maybe arrange for a little bit of encouragement/offer they can't refuse - after all they are the people repeatedly seen in the company of series of raging psychos.
Your aim is to have them bring guys head on a pike to the authorities or at least kick him out of the party under the threat of killing him on sight when he follows. Play the other players against guy's characters - not only it will be more annoying to him, but his subsequent incarnations will stay level 1 while the players will advance - and don't forget the guy is worth XP too.

(Of course, kill XP suck, but we all know it).

tl;dr:
Hell is other people. Make it so.

 

[Avian Mosquito]

A punishment must hurt the *player* to be effective.

Agreed.

...I don't know your system, but no level adjustment to match the party is a must. If guy's character is going to be a dead weight - that's his problem.

Already did that. Jury's still out on whether it worked or not.

Also, try to enlist other players' help.

A threat of TPK is actually a nice stick here. Send the message that "this asshole will get you all killed" clearly enough, maybe arrange for a little bit of encouragement/offer they can't refuse - after all they are the people repeatedly seen in the company of series of raging psychos.
Your aim is to have them bring guys head on a pike to the authorities or at least kick him out of the party under the threat of killing him on sight when he follows. Play the other players against guy's characters - not only it will be more annoying to him, but his subsequent incarnations will stay level 1 while the players will advance - and don't forget the guy is worth XP too.

(Of course, kill XP suck, but we all know it).

tl;dr:
Hell is other people. Make it so.

Well, they've been trying to manage him like he's Belkar Bitterleaf, keep him pointed at the enemy and pull the choke chain when he gets out of line. They forgot to send somebody to watch him at the potion shop, though. Now, they're never going to let him out of their sight when his new character arrives. Which also means he'll always have to split all the experience he gets, so that's an extra bit of pain.

 

[Avian Mosquito]

You know, he got a LOT better the moment he moved to his new character. Still being careful, and the rest of the party doesn't trust him, but he's... Playing the game. Like, really playing. And like, serious roleplaying too. He even understands player/character separation, a concept the last boy still struggles with. More evidence for my original hypothesis that he was being evil on purpose to see how that was treated without alignment. He also passed me a set of notes with actual constructive criticism, said he'd add to it as needed. Here, I'll quote it.

Quest experience is too low. The challenge system has merit, I like optional objectives, but it's a bit stiff and in order for it to work you really need to use it in every quest. Even level 1 "ratstompers". You should make some generic ones, to make this easy. Like "Unscathed - Take no damage". And make them a percentage of the quest XP instead of a fixed or level-adjusted number.

Also, I don't get why metal armour is strong against heat and electricity. This isn't a gripe, I just don't get it. Shouldn't it be weak, since it's conductive?

(Note: I explained that conductivity was a strength against heat and electricity, because these energies follow the path of least resistance and the armour is more conductive than the padding underneath or the wearer, so the energy spreads out across the armour and less of it transfers through. Electricity actually should be double-weak, since it can actually pass harmlessly around a user in metal armour without hurting them, as their armour acts as a faraday cage, but I didn't for balance reasons. So that's been resolved. And I'm working on his first criticism, quest experience and challenges, as we speak.)

So, on one hand, he was a total jackass for what I still think was a pretty stupid reason, and went so far as murdering an apothecary. On the other hand, he's doing really well with his second character so far, although it has only been an hour and a half. You know what, fuck it. I'll take it. Even if this doesn't go well, I still have four good players. 4/5 isn't bad.

 

[Siveon]

I'm glad you took the time to whine about it here on the Codex Blogdex. Snark aside, it seems he was just testing you. If he's actually giving proper criticism, then it's safe to assume he'll play normally from now on. I guess.

I think. I don't really know. But when I was her age (granted, that was 1998) that's part of what the word "girlfriend" meant.

I think it's safer to assume she's using the term "girlfriend" as a substitute for best-friend/good friend. Where I live it's pretty common, and I've seen it on TV shows all the time. Unless she comes out of the closet (at such a young age I doubt it).

 

[Avian Mosquito]

I'm glad you took the time to whine about it here on the Codex Blogdex. Snark aside, it seems he was just testing you. If he's actually giving proper criticism, then it's safe to assume he'll play normally from now on. I guess.

I shared the story because I figured that even if I found it unpleasant, other people might find it amusing. And some people just like talking about this kind of stuff, me included. You shouldn't assume I'm "whining" about it just because I brought it up. Save that attitude for Youtube comments.

I think it's safer to assume she's using the term "girlfriend" as a substitute for best-friend/good friend. Where I live it's pretty common, and I've seen it on TV shows all the time. Unless she comes out of the closet (at such a young age I doubt it).

I'm aware of this usage of the term. Unless friends also now french kiss, snuggle on the couch, and maintain their relationship so exclusively they don't call anybody else by the same title under any circumstance, I doubt that's what she means by "girlfriend".

Also, she came out of the closet at 4, in a discussion about what marriage was. You might chock that up to not knowing what she was saying, given her age at the time, but I don't think so and she's maintained that pretty consistently ever since.

 

[King Crispy]

Look at this kid as an opportunity -- an opportunity for you as a GM to handle a particularly challenging player and to handle what could be a formative experience for an apparently quite-intelligent young man. He may be devious, he may be rebellious, but that's what kids, especially males, are.

These characteristics of his, especially if mirrored in the actual characters he plays, could be leveraged into a very satisfying and interesting campaign for all involved. There is a lot to be said about the evil villain who turns out to be the savior. If you can manage to corral his more destructive tendencies and slyly direct him towards a more rewarding experience for the entire group, then everyone wins.

In fact, you should even feign "disdain" for some of his more outrageous acts, while in the background out-thinking and planning ahead of him. That is your job, to keep three steps ahead of all the players, afterall. Don't do that, and expect disaster. Cardinal rule.

After play sessions, take him aside. Look at him squarely and say to him things like, "I'm keeping an eye on you." But pat him on the back before he leaves. Keep him guessing. Be the adult.

You might just find you'll make a friend for life out of the kid.

Edit: I posted this immediately after you just told us about your daughter coming out of the closet at age 4 and that's discouraging because now the thread is going to remain about nothing but that.

 

[Gregz]

So, I'm running a campaign in my own system

(in an incomplete setting, making things up as I go, which I do a lot), and for our first campaign in this setting my daughter brings a new boy over. This is the second time she's brought a new boy, and I expected issues because that's what happened last time, and prepared for immense stupidity. What I got was not stupidity. I got active malice.

Any particular reason you are playing with children your daughter's age?

It started before the game did. He was skimming the rulebook while I got the food ready, and he asked where the alignment system was. I told him there wasn't one. He smiled, and I thought all was well. Then we actually got into the game, and I realized why he was smiling. The very first quest was to clear a nest of giant beetles out of a pasture. A woman flagged them down as they approached the town, recognizing them as adventurers, explained the problem and promised them a reward. And he said "Let's just kill her. Her house is one room, the reward should be easy to find."

I didn't quite know what to say to that. Sam chimed in with "And that would be wrong.". My head stopped spinning, and I added "Kid, this is just a starter quest, to give you some XP before you get onto the plot.". And he responded with "Yeah, but she's worth more XP than those beetles anyway.". And sure, that was correct, the woman was worth 300xp and the beetles were 140 between the nine of them. I pointed out that there was quest XP as well, he pointed out it was only 100xp and she was still worth 25% more than the whole quest. I started making a moral argument, and he said "But there's no alignment system, so there's no right and wrong."

Sounds like this kid should be the one GM'ing.

A shopkeeper asked a ridiculously high price for a box of -3 potions of adept stabilization (potions that temporarily boost your health, to avoid penalties in combat), and instead of, you know, HAGGLING, he hopped the counter, beat the shopkeeper to death, and started stuffing potions in his backpack. And "So what. We're in the afterlife, he's dead already." was his only justification for it.

Two minutes (game time) later, he left the shop. A town guard confronted him, he broke the guard's leg and ran. He got away, too. Thought he was clear until the town gates closed. He went in quietly to the prisons with the next guards showed up, he started making an argument that he was working for the pharaoh and was too valuable to jail, then he bribed the judge and got off free. I bet he thought he was real hot shit, too, until he was at the town gates and saw six people coming at him. And the other four behind him.

Now, if this was D&D, he'd have been fine. But it's not D&D, or anything remotely like it. In two minutes, they'd dragged him to the ground, pulled off his helmet, and punched him a dozen times in the head. And while his character is getting beat the fuck down, he's grinning like a maniac. He said "Nice. Can't wait to see the rest of the campaign." So he's making a new character. And I'm not sure how I feel about that. I mean, I know what he was doing now, he was seeing how I was handling morality since there wasn't an alignment system, but I don't like people killing off my NPCs and derailing my campaign just to see how I respond.

How dare he enjoy your retardedly unbalanced and poorly thought out 'system' on its own terms?!?

I don't know what you were expecting, but it sounds to me like this kid is just being a kid his own age, having fun and doing a damn fine job gaming your flawed system.

Maybe you would be happier playing with people, I dunno...your own age?

There are plenty of pnp groups around.

http://www.meetup.com/

Use that website to find one, and play with more mature players if you are unhappy with your current...gaming group.

 

[Avian Mosquito]

Deluge of assmuptions and stupidity, along the lines of "always the GM's fault" and "any system I don't know must suck".

Do us a favour, chap. The demonstrator here will show you how.

 

[Gregz]

Hurrr...Durrr...Grrrr!

 

[Avian Mosquito]

Nice try, dumbass. It only works if you have a point *and* can sum it up quickly. You meet neither standard.

 

[Zanzoken]

I'm aware of this usage of the term. Unless friends also now french kiss, snuggle on the couch, and maintain their relationship so exclusively they don't call anybody else by the same title under any circumstance, I doubt that's what she means by "girlfriend".

Also, she came out of the closet at 4, in a discussion about what marriage was. You might chock that up to not knowing what she was saying, given her age at the time, but I don't think so and she's maintained that pretty consistently ever since.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

On the off-chance that you're not more interested in trolling, here's my two cents before this thread winds up in retardoland:
If one player is having a negative impact on the game for the entirety of the rest of the group then that is very problematic, and it is your job as GM to nip that shit in the bud IMMEDIATELY (as in right away; do not give them the benefit of the doubt and wait a couple hours/characters, don't even wait until the end of the session). This becomes even more important when you're dealing with a set of developmentally immature players (read: kids). I've been GMing PnP games for 20 years, and something I realized long ago is that a player who either doesn't give a shit or is unable to see that he's ruining the game for other people is someone that I want nowhere near my table. I'm all about providing an open and friendly environment at my table for newbies and grognards alike, but that is a two-way street, and if someone is unwilling to respect that then I have no problem asking them to leave mid-session. I would strongly advise you to talk to him one-on-one about your concerns the next chance you get, and if he is not receptive to them then I think kicking him out of the group would be warranted.

 

[Avian Mosquito]

On the off-chance that you're not more interested in trolling, here's my two cents before this thread winds up in retardoland:

And one quick "fuck you too" before we move on.

If one player is having a negative impact on the game for the entirety of the rest of the group then that is very problematic, and it is your job as GM to nip that shit in the bud IMMEDIATELY (as in right away; do not give them the benefit of the doubt and wait a couple hours/characters, don't even wait until the end of the session). This becomes even more important when you're dealing with a set of developmentally immature players (read: kids). I've been GMing PnP games for 20 years, and something I realized long ago is that a player who either doesn't give a shit or is unable to see that he's ruining the game for other people is someone that I want nowhere near my table. I'm all about providing an open and friendly environment at my table for newbies and grognards alike, but that is a two-way street, and if someone is unwilling to respect that then I have no problem asking them to leave mid-session. I would strongly advise you to talk to him one-on-one about your concerns the next chance you get, and if he is not receptive to them then I think kicking him out of the group would be warranted.

I respect your opinion, and I have made this decision before for most of the same reasons, but I disagree. I don't want to do kick him out quite yet because the last kid to be incredibly stupid in this group actually pulled himself around pretty well after sitting out for the rest of the session. And this new kid completely stopped being a problem so far, also after sitting out for the rest of the session. Now, if he's a problem again, he's out of the group until his head comes out of his ass, but as of the moment he's doing really, surprisingly well. Though I'm sure he's putting so much effort into it just to make up for how he was in the last session, but even so I'll take it. In fact, I'd even say he seems to be the most experienced of the five players. I'm talking like "more experience than all the others but Sam put together".

Look, I've had players before with REALLY rough first sessions that turned out to be gems. So even though this was worse than I've ever seen, I'm willing to give him one more shot, especially since he knows he's on thin ice. And if it goes poorly, I'll kick him out of the campaign for good.

 

[Siveon]

I shared the story because I figured that even if I found it unpleasant, other people might find it amusing. And some people just like talking about this kind of stuff, me included. You shouldn't assume I'm "whining" about it just because I brought it up. Save that attitude for Youtube comments.

I wasn't, it was just a snide comment, nothing more.

I'm aware of this usage of the term. Unless friends also now french kiss, snuggle on the couch, and maintain their relationship so exclusively they don't call anybody else by the same title under any circumstance, I doubt that's what she means by "girlfriend".
Also, she came out of the closet at 4, in a discussion about what marriage was. You might chock that up to not knowing what she was saying, given her age at the time, but I don't think so and she's maintained that pretty consistently ever since.

Okay then. That's a new one.

 

[Ranselknulf]

This thread definitely should be about how a child can be a lesbian at 4.