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Which, if any, fights are supposed to be unwinnable?

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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W8, whut? You can go back to that particular quest?! Because most quests in this game seem to vanish once you leave their correspondent hub.
There are quests that can wait and quests that can't. There's nothing urgent about fetching some money.

Locking down the abyss, for example, was a bit heavy handed, no?
While it was locked down because it was a scripting nightmare if you make it to Ganezzar and then destroy Maadoran, it does make sense. When House Aurelian is in a state of war with Ganezzar, they won't tolerate the zealots setting up camp around the Abyss.

PS. I don't recall ever claiming that I don't believe in good. I understand it's tempting to make shit up for the greater lulz, but I'm sure you can bitch about the game without it.
 

Shadenuat

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Here's a play-by-play with Raiders/bandits with a similar build to yours
In my opinion, going for the leader right away is a tactical mistake - because he wears Imperial Armor. He can't follow after any character with DEX 8+.
My way:
- Get armor with some DR, like at least 6 DR - otherwise archers would burst you too badly.
- Walk up to first archer. They wear no armor. Burst him.
- Rush second archer. Burst him too.
- Kite around and kill faster raiders first. They have surprisingly low amount of HP.
- Kite/poison leader, since he can't run fast.

By the way, I tried a Perception 10 guy with swords and dodge. Its actually very interesting - you can dodge even with low dodge since you have 80+% chance to apply aimed: arms hits. Medium weapon is enough to get you some advantage (I used Shamshir), but 2-hander just nullifies enemies with -30 to 50 points to their accuracy/dodge.
Also feint is an interesting ability for 1-hand dodger.

However, seems like you need 10 DEX to get most of it, especially from two-hander. Which means low STR or lower PER or even lower CON which screws the build.

But Swords themselves... I don't know about endgame, but I felt I could do everything easier with anything BUT swords. The bleeding effect doesn't proc too often in the beginning, all other types of weapons (except Daggers which I never played with) have something better going for them - either raw power of crits, or kiting like knockdowns, reach range and AOOs.

Not with 5/5 in combat stats and not with a hybrid build (atleast I couldn't manage, maybe somebody did with bombs/alchemy) but I did it with an axe/dodger and sword/dodger (both were 10 10 6 4 6 4 in stats focused on sword or axe, dodge and crafting) but I had to wear an iron Imperial Armor (can be bought from Shorty if you're an Imperial Guard or you can craft one obviously) and use that spot at the collapsed wall in the village so they couldn't surround me, also employed nets.

I never tried that fight with a blocker now that I think about it, will give it a shot.
2-handed spear might do the same trick as ranged weapons by using diagonal hits behind liquid fire squares.
Ordu archer is a problem tho.
 
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ZagorTeNej

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Messages
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In my opinion, going for the leader right away is a tactical mistake - because he wears Imperial Armor. He can't follow after any character with DEX 8+.
My way:
- Get armor with some DR, like at least 6 DR - otherwise archers would burst you too badly.
- Walk up to first archer. They wear no armor. Burst him.
- Rush second archer. Burst him too.
- Kite around and kill faster raiders first. They have surprisingly low amount of HP.
- Kite/poison leader, since he can't run fast.

Sure but as a blocker archers aren't much of a threat to me, the leader can stack bleeding on me so I take him out first, usually followed by the axe guy (because he can hit through my armor). I also want to use up Sharpening Stone attacks on the leader, not spend them on the rest of the bunch which are lightly armored.

I also don't like kiting (unless I'm using a spear) so him not being able to follow me doesn't mean much to me.

By the way, I tried a Perception 10 guy with swords and dodge. Its actually very interesting - you can dodge even with low dodge since you have 80+% chance to apply aimed: arms hits. Medium weapon is enough to get you some advantage (I used Shamshir), but 2-hander just nullifies enemies with -30 to 50 points to their accuracy/dodge.
Also feint is an interesting ability for 1-hand dodger.

However, seems like you need 10 DEX to get most of it, especially from two-hander.

That's a very interesting build though I use aimed attack to arms all the time with a 2H weapon even with low perception. As long as you get some points in weapon skill you'll have a decent chance (like 40-50%) to connect even in Teron and you only need it once or twice and they can't hit you. Alternatively against non-shield users you can just target their legs until you connect and then hit arms until they die.

Yeah, you need 10 DEX so you can make two aimed attacks per round with a 2H weapon.

But Swords themselves... I don't know about endgame, but I felt I could do everything easier with anything BUT swords. The bleeding effect doesn't proc too often in the beginning, all other types of weapons (except Daggers which I never played with) have something better going for them - either raw power of crits, or kiting like knockdowns and AOOs.

Depends on your build I guess. In my experience swords are probably the best weapon group for a low STR character (if you don't use alchemy), nice crafted Khopesh or Shamshir can stack up bleeding real quick (to 8-10 damage per round even). Early on I usually just use Scimitar to get over the low damage output and damage heavies but afterwards switch to either Shamshir or Khopesh, doesn't matter how high DR the enemy has as long as you can get 1 point of damage through you can easily bleed him to death.
 

Tigranes

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Messages
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Even the raiders in Aemolas' village? I haven't been able to kill them while still in Teron with any melee build.

Yeah, that's an "unwinnable" fight I think. The game presses you into inviting them to Aemolas' house and killing their leader there. And the quest doesn't update after that (bug?).

Aemolas fight is winnable with some Teron characters, though for any solution, Aemolas usually requires a post-Teron character to come back for it (e.g. it needs something like 6 Sneak I think, and nothing else in Teron requires more than 4 in a single skill, AFAIK).

I did beat it without much trouble with a dedicated fighter mercenary, 5/5, Axe and block.
 

Shadenuat

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nothing else in Teron requires more than 4 in a single skill, AFAIK).
Not in critical path, but there are quite a few talky checks for Merchant and some others. Like persuading Antidas without proof, or wasting him in one hit by Critical Strike during IG line.
Blue steel smelter mode too (well that one requires extra tube anyway), or reading flying ships scroll.
 
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ZagorTeNej

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Messages
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Aemolas fight is winnable with some Teron characters, though for any solution, Aemolas usually requires a post-Teron character to come back for it (e.g. it needs something like 6 Sneak I think, and nothing else in Teron requires more than 4 in a single skill, AFAIK).

I did beat it without much trouble with a dedicated fighter mercenary, 5/5, Axe and block.

All of them in the village (I think there are 7-8) or just the leader and his two flunkies in Aemolas house?
 

jagged-jimmy

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Anyway, not being able to defeat the outpost or the raiders is nothing to be ashamed about. Those are tough fights, the majority of my characters, even my combat ones, just solve it in another way.
Not ashamed, seems very reasonable not to fight 6 guys. As opposed to "find the spot to fight them one by one" strategy, that really cannot be the design behind any encounter. Just mentioned it, so it's clear i got no SP from it.
You wasted too many points on weapon skill. Try a more even build with 5 points in weapon and defensive skill. Pump Alchemy to 4 for better poison and crowd control option. Concider dumping CON to 6 for more PER.
You might also concider changing your weapon choice. Try Maces, they have nice knockdown ability, or Axes for better damage, or even Bows for poison-cheese.
Golden rule: not even the most hardcore fighter should need more than 5/5 attack/defence skill to kill everything in Teron.
My first build was more crafting/alchemy/streetwise - you guys told me i should concentrate on combat skills... Don't see how i can survive with low hp and crappy THC from 5/5. With 7 i have 5x% with regular on Dellar. Others i hit consistently but not nearly good enough to use "aiming" strikes every time. Also first build was Hammer - did knockdowns. Doesn't change the fight much.

My point is: i don't agree with the design. With pure combat build i reasonably expect to swing my weapon of choice and win by good positioning and special attacks. I don't want to be forced to use alchemy bombs. I don't use nets, i suck at throwing. What is wrong with a good fighter who just fights?

This particular encounter is balanced on the very top build/strategy/use items for the following reasons:

No Critical: means Antidas stays and consistently shoots your guys.
Outnumbered: means i have to gang up on enemies and kill them fast one by one to restore balance ASAP. If you wait and let team fight 1on1 - everyone dies. You might get lucky hits and everything goes well, but "normally" even 3on2 your guys just don't manage and rather die. Dellar is obviously too hard for them anyway.

Outnumbered: means i have to use specials like power attack to do damage fast, because enemies are very well protected. With 6-7 skill i have 50% (Dellar) to 80% with regular/fast attacks. Do the math for special attacks - does not compute with "fast".

Did i miss some combat maneuver? Any tips are welcome.

Edit: 9% of all players achieved Kingslayer. Minus everyone who relied on Critical Strike (like me) and it's not that straightforward, considering combat characters are probably common.
 
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Shadenuat

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I don't use nets, i suck at throwing.
Throwing consumables are not affected by your Throwing skill. You are expected to use them to focus fire most dangerous enemies like axemen, friendly AI even changes his strikes for stronger ones if he sees enemy lost good chunk of his DEF. Throw bolas to Dellar's head, see for yourself what happens.

Someone should really have written that in Throwing skill description btw.

With 7 i have 5x% with regular on Dellar. Others i hit consistently but not nearly good enough to use "aiming" strikes every time.
If you want a fighter who is more accurate try higher Perception, weapons with innate +THC bonus and Crafting mod for even more extra +THC. Don't wear stuff that lowers your THC like heavy helmets. High STR builds are more about fast attacks with huge innate bonuses to damage (like axes).

My first build was more crafting/alchemy/streetwise - you guys told me i should concentrate on combat skills...
Heh, I'd never say that. If anything Crafting+Alchemy are the best advantage to combat builds one could wish for.
 
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Eyestabber

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Ah yes, the Abyss provides an option that could ruin the game's reactivity if used during the Third "act". Closing makes more sense now.

PS. I don't recall ever claiming that I don't believe in good. I understand it's tempting to make shit up for the greater lulz, but I'm sure you can bitch about the game without it.

I was referring to a post I made (and you replied) in ITS Forum back in 2012. After some searching, I found your exact words:

Me: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 61465161651 times and I start wondering if the developers even believe in good.
You: On a grand scale? No.

Me: AoD leaves the impression that there is no room for good deeds and everyone is out to scam you, rob you or just murder you for fun.
You: Pretty much. Well, I'm sure that the kindness of strangers does exist and there are people who would give you a loaf of bread, a place to sleep, tend to your wounds and such, but overall the AoD world is a very harsh and bleak place.

I guess, the best way to look at it is to ask "what is 'good' and why should it be in an AoD-like world? What's there that would cultivate and encourage it?" Now, some people believe that there is some good in all of us. Some people believe in the very opposite:

"One of the first adopters of Legalism was the statesman Shang Yang of the State of Qin. ... Overall, Shang Yang advocated the belief that all people are fundamentally flawed and that stringent laws and harsh punishments are required to keep them in order. In addition, his theories thought all humanity was selfish and evil..."

Anyway, the world is harsh, but there are some true bros there. They won't rush to your aid the moment you fall and scrape your knee, but if you earn their respect and friendship, they will stand by you (which will make it even more special).

Even Miltiades isn't that bad. You were a nobody to him, some fool waiting to be parted with his money. Sure, his goons would have killed you, but in his business, getting rid of his victims is much more practical and sensible than letting them live. Nothing personal. However, if you survive his shenanigans (and show that you're a handy friend to have), he'll be a good and loyal friend to you. That whole thing really was a misunderstanding.
icon_smile.gif


Source: http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2917.0.html

So, your exact words man. :smug:

As you can see, I didn't make anything up. You can argue that I oversimplified your reasoning in order to make a lulzy headline (tho, if that were the case, "VD HATES PUPPIES, MORE NEWS AT ELEVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!" would've been much better), but you would still have to deal with your own words. Also, strawman or no, I could argue that your reasoning on the second answer has nothing to do with "good". What you described there is called "friendship", "loyalty" or whatever. "Good" is about selfless sacrifice.

P.S: If you're going to read shoutbox then PLEASE read the whole thing. Don't cherry pick little bits just to feel butthurt. I said many times "AoD is gud" and "combat is better than Fallout" (countering allegations that combat in AoD is bad). If you wanna "fight teh haterzz" be my guest, but you're barking up the wrong tree here. I bought your game, despite the fact that my country's currency plummeted more than 50% in a couple of months (THANKS, DILMAIS!!!), played it till the end, recommended it to my friends, started a second playthrough, gave it a Steam thumbs up, a Metacritic 10/10 and discussed it on the Codex (both in the forums and in shoutbox). Ofc I have my grievances (isn't it what this place is about?), but overall I think it's a great game. So PLEASE, stop fighting your own supporters and give us an update on the whole "We need 30k copies to be considered successful" thing. ;)
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
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Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
Heh, I'd never say that. If anything Crafting+Alchemy are the best advantage to combat builds one could wish for.

Crafting and Alchemy are combat skills as far as I'm concerned, few checks here and there doesn't change the fact that their main role is helping you kill things (much) more effectively. Hell, they're much better combat skills than Critical Strike (which only shines against lightly armored opponents, with dagger users and awesome skill checks on Assassin path), far more reliable on the whole.

Did i miss some combat maneuver? Any tips are welcome.

Attack Dellar's legs first, it will make it easier for both you and your allies to hit him, then switch to power attacks, you can also use nets (they have 100% hit chance). If you have 6 INT Carrinas gave you Eagle Eye and Berserk potion, use them if you have to.

Edit: 9% of all players achieved Kingslayer. Minus everyone who relied on Critical Strike (like me) and it's not that straightforward, considering combat characters are probably common.

Considering Steam players finish their games 5% of the time or something, that's not a bad number actually.
 

jagged-jimmy

Prophet
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Ok, didn't know nets are not affected by Throwing. Crafting and PER sounds indeed better to bump up THC. But i still had trouble with that build, so i guess nets and other helpers are mandatory. I would say that's a bit too much for pure combat builds, but well.

Anyway arrived to Maadoran - Trial by Combat is indeed waaaaaay easier compared to the escape (for blockers), because i get to use a shield. Ranked up my body count even more right away - also nice to see it's used a lot. Will see how my now 7/7/3 build will work out.
 

Tigranes

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Messages
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All of them in the village (I think there are 7-8) or just the leader and his two flunkies in Aemolas house?

All of them. Started off in the thick of things, moved to the shadow of the building where the spear guy is, then whirlwinded 4-5 enemies at a time while letting the bowmen hit their own friends. Neurostimulants etc would help, but not necessary. Poison probably is.

Not ashamed, seems very reasonable not to fight 6 guys. As opposed to "find the spot to fight them one by one" strategy, that really cannot be the design behind any encounter. Just mentioned it, so it's clear i got no SP from it.


My first build was more crafting/alchemy/streetwise - you guys told me i should concentrate on combat skills... Don't see how i can survive with low hp and crappy THC from 5/5. With 7 i have 5x% with regular on Dellar. Others i hit consistently but not nearly good enough to use "aiming" strikes every time. Also first build was Hammer - did knockdowns. Doesn't change the fight much.

My point is: i don't agree with the design. With pure combat build i reasonably expect to swing my weapon of choice and win by good positioning and special attacks. I don't want to be forced to use alchemy bombs. I don't use nets, i suck at throwing. What is wrong with a good fighter who just fights?

This particular encounter is balanced on the very top build/strategy/use items for the following reasons:

No Critical: means Antidas stays and consistently shoots your guys.
Outnumbered: means i have to gang up on enemies and kill them fast one by one to restore balance ASAP. If you wait and let team fight 1on1 - everyone dies. You might get lucky hits and everything goes well, but "normally" even 3on2 your guys just don't manage and rather die. Dellar is obviously too hard for them anyway.

Outnumbered: means i have to use specials like power attack to do damage fast, because enemies are very well protected. With 6-7 skill i have 50% (Dellar) to 80% with regular/fast attacks. Do the math for special attacks - does not compute with "fast".

Did i miss some combat maneuver? Any tips are welcome.

Edit: 9% of all players achieved Kingslayer. Minus everyone who relied on Critical Strike (like me) and it's not that straightforward, considering combat characters are probably common.

I thought I said this in response to you in this thread, but maybe it was to somebody else in another thread. In any case:

If you have 5/5 or more in Teron and you are dying all the time, it is not skill points that is your problem. You are sucking at the combat, and there will be some different reason for that. E.g. a dagger user who never raises CS and tries to hit people 'normally' like an axe user. A bow/xbow user who never works out the centrality of fire vials to their space management. I don't meant to be patronising, though those are extreme examples. The point is, if you go in with 6-7 skill into end of Teron, you are actually overlevelled in terms of SP investment, so it can't be that you need more SP; something else is going wrong, so you should look at your tactics, gear, etc. for your solutions. At worst you could record yourself dying horribly and let us see it.

60-80% chance to hit is very decent in AOD, by the way. Remember the fact that block users with low dodge SP will tend to BLOCK rather than dodge your 'missed' attacks. So for example an axe user staring at a 20% THC with power attack against a shield user... might always end up being blocked, but might do so much damage, especially with savage 30%, that it doesn't matter - even when you 'miss' you still do enough damage to get past their DR.

Also, you don't have to use all of nets, bolas, fire vials, etc. to survive, but if you think to yourself "I'll just spend all my SP on weapon skills and then not bother with any consumables", you're (1) actively robbing yourself of combat efficiency and wasting SP, (2) you're setting yourself up for a very unfun way to play the game, sort of like foregoing any active ability feats in a RPG because they're complicated, (3) your character will probably end up very inefficient/underpowered.
 
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Serpent in the Staglands Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Also, you don't have to use all of nets, bolas, fire vials, etc. to survive, but if you think to yourself "I'll just spend all my SP on weapon skills and then not bother with any consumables", you're (1) actively robbing yourself of combat efficiency and wasting SP, (2) you're setting yourself up for a very unfun way to play the game, sort of like foregoing any active ability feats in a RPG because they're complicated, (3) your character will probably end up very inefficient/underpowered.
I will say that the impulse to not use consumables in RPGs is incredibly strong for no real reason. The one time I made a guy who focused on alchemy, I still barely used anything other than poisons and healing salves due to an inane worry that I'd run out of ingredients by the time I got to the really high alchemy levels. Same thing happens with nets and bolas - because there are only so many vendors that sell them, I tend to just f9 most battles until I win without them because what if I needed them at some point and didn't have them? (despite knowing all the fights in the game well enough to know that I wouldn't)
 

Shadenuat

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RPGs where consumables are critical for success in combat and you don't end up with 267 Greater Heroism potions in your backpack at the endgame can probably be counted using fingers on one hand, and since AoD is one of them, I personally enjoy using one or two in almost every fight.

It does make other skills feel very weak in comparison tho, since you get both better equipment, healing, DoT's, damage, customization AND pass checks in text quests with Alchemy/Crafting.
 
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Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.

Interesting, but where is the part where he says he doesn't believe in the good
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Me: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 61465161651 times and I start wondering if the developers even believe in good.
You: On a grand scale? No.
That "grand scale" clarification is pretty significant, no? The way I see it, that grand scale Good means strong forces of good that are absent in our society. There are people who do good and make a huge difference, there are life-saving acts of kindness, and there are tons of good things here and there. Good exists in people but doesn't exist as a unifying force.

Also, strawman or no, I could argue that your reasoning on the second answer has nothing to do with "good". What you described there is called "friendship", "loyalty" or whatever. "Good" is about selfless sacrifice.
I disagree. If you help a person, that's an act of good even if you didn't sacrifice selflessly.

P.S: If you're going to read shoutbox then PLEASE read the whole thing.
I don't read the whole thing. My apologies.

I bought your game, despite the fact that my country's currency plummeted more than 50% in a couple of months (THANKS, DILMAIS!!!), played it till the end, recommended it to my friends, started a second playthrough, gave it a Steam thumbs up, a Metacritic 10/10 and discussed it on the Codex (both in the forums and in shoutbox). Ofc I have my grievances (isn't it what this place is about?), but overall I think it's a great game.
Thanks. I mean it.

Anyway, for the record, the colony ship game will have a different setting and more room for idealism and general 'good'. AoD is about factions fighting for power in a crumbling world. The colony ship game will be about exploring the ship and different societies co-existing together.
 

Johannes

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RPGs where consumables are critical for success in combat and you don't end up with 267 Greater Heroism potions in you backpack at the endgame can probably be counted using fingers on one hand, and since AoD is one of them, I personally enjoy using one or two in almost every fight.

It does make other skills feel very weak in comparison tho, since you get both better equipment, healing, DoT's, damage, customization AND pass checks in text quests with Alchemy/Crafting.
There's still an abundance of most alchemic things in the game if you use the skill at all. At least if you pick up all the various ingredients lying around (use tab key). Unless your build is somehow so tight that you must expend shittons of bombs in any given fight (or save them up for a specific fight you wouldn't pass otherwise), you're not ever gonna run out of poisons or sharpening stones though.
 

Johannes

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That "grand scale" clarification is pretty significant, no? The way I see it, that grand scale Good means strong forces of good that are absent in our society. There are people who do good and make a huge difference, there are life-saving acts of kindness, and there are tons of good things here and there. Good exists in people but doesn't exist as a unifying force.


I disagree. If you help a person, that's an act of good even if you didn't sacrifice selflessly.


I don't read the whole thing. My apologies.


Thanks. I mean it.

Anyway, for the record, the colony ship game will have a different setting and more room for idealism and general 'good'. AoD is about factions fighting for power in a crumbling world. The colony ship game will be about exploring the ship and different societies co-existing together.
AoD setting has many elements that are conflicting each other. Basically, it can't always decide whether it's been 10 years or 1000 years since the collapse of the Empire.

There's raiders everywhere, but they aren't desperate machete rape gangs in the aftermath of an itz roving to find the last scraps of food cause they have no choice. They're just doing business as usual, and living to a decent standard it seems. How many farmers do you need to support all the professional warriors, both outlaws and military? Then they're still producing enough surplus to trade it to a decadent shithole located in the middle of a desert. If you've got so much spare resources as a society to spend on warfare, chances are you're rich. Are things still in steady decline since ITZ?

There's barely any proper records of the old empire days, but a lot of the social structures (noble houses, imperial guard...) still take their name and lineage from back then, so there was never a proper depopulation nor were they ever conquered by a foreign invader either since the cataclysm.

How does the post-itz past also compare to the modern day in terms of knowledge, are loremasters today more or less informed than their colleagues from a fifty years ago?

Basically, is the society crumbling or being rebuilt here? The game gives very mixed signals.
 

Eyestabber

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Thanks. I mean it.
Ok, now that we are friends again, Vince: I'm trying to password recover my ITS acc (Purple Eyestabber, the one I linked earlier), because I wanna discuss some stuff about mechanics and I feel it's best to do it there. However, I got no emails so far, despite doing the recovery procedure. I'm positive I'm checking the right e-mail, because I found my "welcome to ITS" e-mail. Can someone look into that? Thanks.
 

jagged-jimmy

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Raiders and Outpost are very doable with any combat focused build and they net you a lot of SPs which makes Antidas battle much more manageable. Here's a play-by-play with Raiders/bandits with a similar build to yours:
Screens don't lie, but this way is no where near as easy as your post makes it sound. Starting on Erebus works fine, but he survives atleast 1-2 rounds still, even if the first hit is 16dmg... Archers rape me from afar and the axe dude is also tough. I am having 50HP and wearing Lorica - i don't survive. Moving helps, but it's too tough under archer fire.

In my opinion, going for the leader right away is a tactical mistake - because he wears Imperial Armor. He can't follow after any character with DEX 8+.
My way:
- Get armor with some DR, like at least 6 DR - otherwise archers would burst you too badly.
- Walk up to first archer. They wear no armor. Burst him.
- Rush second archer. Burst him too.
- Kite around and kill faster raiders first. They have surprisingly low amount of HP.
- Kite/poison leader, since he can't run fast.
This. This works even better if you don't get unlucky damage. I was 1on1 with Erebus with 20HP. Poison and kite sounds good, but when he applies Bleeding it does not work out. 2 Raiders are really low on HP, didn't expect that. Both Archers switch to melee and can't touch me much. I was basically backtracking to the river slowly poisoning Axe dude and remaining Archer, when all are dead i 1on1ed Erebus. It's still a tough fight - had to try 2 times with this strategy. On last, i said "fuck it" and went Aimed Head for 15dmg - lucky. But this strategy indeed is tough, but doable.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Yea I see no reason to begin fight inside enemy formation if you can start with picking off strays, unless you know you can just facetank all of them and do the dervish of death.
Erebus himself has to waste 3 turns or so to just catch up with you.
You can also make 1-handers waste AP by making them stand diagonally to you (or be totally innefective if 2-handers placed themselves at front and side of you while you are in a corner). It's funny watching them run around you wasting AP after you use Feint to switch with some other guy.

[Observation] It's always a good idea to begin fighting ~4 squares away from enemy in AoD unless you have 9+ DEX. Either all enemies in the game have more than 8 DEX or game gives them first turn if yours and theirs DEX are equal, but with 8 DEX I never was able to act first in combat.
It's very noticable in the Arena, where with 8 DEX every enemy always acts first, so I always do a step back and skip turn, they run 4 squares to me and I end up landing first hits.
It's especially funny when spearmen with 2-handed spears do that ending up in a melee with you instead of keeping their 1-square life saving distance.
 
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jagged-jimmy

Prophet
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
1,550
Location
Freeside
Codex 2012
Okaaay guys. I tried doing the Bandits/Mining outpost and that gave my pure combat build the edge, it seems (along with combat experience).

Did the bandits with 6/6 and 2 alchemy (so slight poison). The looted gear pushes the build. I leveled Alchemy to 4 - poisoned the Mining Outpost guards and basically killed them all - a pushover fight on first try. Looted gear is even more awesome.

Did not skill anything and went straight for IG quests - nice surprise, this time i got "fame" check while planing the attack. Antidas is still a tough fight, but this time i was just 6/6 with nice poison - so no CS path, just old fashioned combat. I used 1 net on Dellar. That's it. Key still was to start on Antidas and keep Captain and Dellar busy long enough then retreat/lure them back to my teams line. Had to reload, because got critted, but otherwise very doable strategy with good gear.

All in all - problem solved. Pure combat build does work, but yeah - you have to fight out the tough fight, the bandits, and kickstart your gear.
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
Screens don't lie, but this way is no where near as easy as your post makes it sound. Starting on Erebus works fine, but he survives atleast 1-2 rounds still, even if the first hit is 16dmg... Archers rape me from afar and the axe dude is also tough. I am having 50HP and wearing Lorica - i don't survive. Moving helps, but it's too tough under archer fire.

Well I didn't say easy, I sad doable. If you want real easy, you use 10 10 8 Axe+Dodge build, that dude will plow through everything. The strategy I described worked for me (with that character and that skills/equipment) as I tried it 4-5 times and I managed to survive each time. That said, there are many ways to approach each fight in AoD so choose whatever works best for you.
 

jagged-jimmy

Prophet
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
1,550
Location
Freeside
Codex 2012
So i wanted to have some fun with the game - load up a save - ambush in the slums. Any save there - always ambushed by "Bassar" guys.

Edit: Reaaaaally butthurt. I am on 9 Block and both Xbow-guys knock me down. Two-Hander swings for 15 dmg. Other guy nets me on 1 round.

Sure, i fucked with the wrong man it seems, but this fight is fucked up. I would need some good preparation for this. Instead it surprises me, while i am loading ANY slum save, between which are hours. There are some fights in the slums, which i was working on the whole time + the Youth quest. And now, when i am done, i can't load any save.

So any cheats available? Disable random encounter or something?
 
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Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Sure, i fucked with the wrong man it seems, but this fight is fucked up. I would need some good preparation for this.
They don't call it an ambush for nothing. Besides, the idea is to kill you for fucking with them, not to let you kill them.

The moral of the story is, if you cross the thieves guild, stay away from the Slums. It's the first of many ambushes and general unpleasantries that will be added in the upcoming updates to reinforce the reputation system. Wait til you cross the assassins.
 

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